…is newt fan Red Ken.

Congratulations man of the people Kenneth 😈

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/london-mayor-election/9105977/Ken-Livingstone-uses-loophole-to-save-50000-in-tax.html

Red Ken, ker-ching, ker-ching, ker-ching to paraphrase Elfin 😉

Not quite as black and white as you’d like…short on details also…

Surely if his co pays him then that is taxed as income? So HMRC gets 40%?

Quite different to the scams he has attacked, no?

People set these companies up so they can extract £££ as dividends at a much lower tax rate than a salary would attract. Otherwise why do it ? Just put the income down on your tax return as additional income and pay the tax.

Hypocritical.

hmm, an article attacking ken livingstone written by andrew gilligan, why am I not surprised? I imagine he’s “sexed up” some of the details of this.

Sexed up, well read for yourself and decide.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewgilligan/100139555/ken-livingstone-tax-avoidance-the-transcript/

Where has he attacked this particular practice?

It’s utterly commonplace AFAIK.

OP are you saying you wouldn’t pay half your tax if you could?

Sorry that should have been: “would you pay twice your tax voluntarily?”

That’s his reputation shot. Couldn’t happen to a nicer bloke either.

Read the transcript. Odd that anyone might think it adds to the article.

Weak anti left story…I guess that’s the Torygraph for you.

That’s his reputation shot.

Not really.

I would think he was an idiot if he chose to pay tax twice when he didn’t have to.

But he hasn’t.

I would think he was an idiot if he chose to pay tax twice when he didn’t have to.

How about he pay tax once, at 40% or 50% (depending on how much he earns per year) rather than a lower amount (corporation tax level) by using a company ?

After all he’s a politician who’s been vocal about tax avoiders previously.

Because it’s commonplace, accepted by HMRC, and not what he has criticised?

Unless you can show otherwise?

Where has he attacked this particular practice?

Well he said in his Sun column

everybody should pay tax at the same rate on their earnings and all other income.

He then arranges to have his income paid through his company as dividends so it gets taxed at a lower rate.

Hypocrite.

He’s self-employed and therefore is quite correct in his approach, probably the only HMRC interest is if he is paying his ‘partner’ an amount over/above her ‘value’.

Hands up all who’d pay more tax/NI than is required?

Not mine, they’ll only pi55 it away.

Link to the Sun column quote please, is it in context?

Boris Johnson stands for a privileged minority. He says anger over bankers’ bonuses is “whingeing”. He campaigns to cut the top rate of tax. He is the leading Tory in the country demanding a cut in the top rate of tax for the one per cent earning more than £150,000 a year. Not surprising really…

I will put ordinary Londoners first by backing Ed Balls’ plan for a cut in VAT not Boris Johnson’s tax cuts for the richest. Unlike Boris Johnson I am in it for London, not for myself.

http://www.labour.org.uk/ken-livingstones-speech-to-labour-party-conference

The Mayor should have an income tax so you can redistribute wealth?…? I think it would at least be a 60 per cent rate for everybody over £200,000. “

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23880546-ken-make-bankers-pay-80-percent-tax.do

😆

How about he pay tax once, at 40% or 50% (depending on how much he earns per year) rather than a lower amount (corporation tax level) by using a company ?

Why should anyone pay More Tax than they are legally required to ??

That’s just stupid.

It’s like choosing to pay 80% tax instead of the rate you are actually supposed to pay. Nobody with any sense would do it.

He may (or may not be) hypocritical, but that’s a different issue.

He is Tax Efficient, and he is not doing anything remotely illegal. (unless his partner is getting more than her worth to the business ??)

everybody should pay tax at the same rate on their earnings and all other income.

And when it becomes the law, I’m sure he will pay it until then…

It’s like choosing to pay 80% tax instead of the rate you are actually supposed to pay. Nobody with any sense would do it.

Surely the only hipocrisy in this thread is the OP not offering to pay over and above his legal obligation.

Personal companies like this should be reformed so the income they earn is taxed on their owners as if it were part of their own income. That way, tax, and National Insurance if appropriate, could not be avoided by putting a company between a person and their income.”

this is the solution
Is he a hypocrite
Yes
you cannot really go on about how everyone should be their fair share of tax* then actively do something to make sure your “fair share” is the least [ or less than if it was just paid as wages rather than paid via dividends] it can possibly be under the current legislative structure as that is [partly] what he has attacked.
If you object to tax avoidance you cannot then avoid tax and not look hypocritical

If I were a socialist politician with a record of hit-the-rich type rhetoric then I would indeed be a hypocrite.

Are you guys OK with the legal tax avoidance tactics used by Vodafone et al also ?

Are you guys OK with the legal tax avoidance tactics used by Vodafone et al also ?

Yes, as long as it’s legal.

DS i think people are focusing on the morals of this
No one thinks it is illegal but is it immoral?
Has ken said it was immoral previously?

I was just answering allthepies’ question. 😉

He then arranges to have his income paid through his company as dividends so it gets taxed at a lower rate.

Hypocrite.

Wait, there’s more, according to the article :

“Mr Livingstone, who has called for a top tax rate of 80 per cent”

Has Livingstone been paying 80% tax ? No ! ………………what a hypocrite !!!

I think Livingstone could fairly be called a “hypocrite” if he was expecting to be personally excluded from any changes which he is calling for.

As for his tax status as alleged by the Daily Telegraph, I’m no expert on tax avoidance, although I’m sure the Daily Telegraph has no lack of access to people who are; but I do know that the there is a mayoral election looming and not only is one of the Daily Telegraph’s own columnists standing but the Daily Telegraph has a very definite political agenda concerning it.

I also note that whilst the Daily Telegraph obviously can’t deny in the article that Johnson is one of their columnists, they conveniently omit to mention that they pay Johnson more per year than they allege are Livingstone company’s total earnings.

See this article for what it is – a shot fired at by a newspaper with a political agenda in a forthcoming election. Livingstone’s Tory opponents have always relied heavily on mudslinging, a strategy which quite reasonable argues that no matter how baseless the allegations are, some mud will always stick. The Evening Standard were particularly successful with this strategy against Livingstone last election. And it’s a strategy which is central to US politics, although the UK does not have a simular tradition of negative politics.

I very likely won’t be voting for Livingstone next election, unless I feel that I have heard a reasonable explanation for his apparent endorsement of Ed Balls economic policies, but it certainly won’t be because of the Tories constant and invariably baseless accusations of his alleged hypocrisy. As politicians go Livingstone is one of the most honest, genuine, and straight talking ones. Certainly more so than the present incumbent clown.

Livingstone’s Tory opponents have always relied heavily on mudslinging, a strategy which quite reasonable argues that no matter how baseless the allegations are, some mud will always stick.

I know Ernie – Just imagine how difficult it would be to get anything concrete on the anti-semitic, terrorist-supporting, tax-avoiding, anti-gay, philandering drunkard and general all round nasty piece of work that Ken is?

I very likely won’t be voting for Livingstone next election

Said that before haven’t you…

everybody should pay tax at the same rate on their earnings and all other income.

and when someone pays me holiday/sick/no-income pay then maybe I’ll look at paying PAYE tax/NI rates on my income too…

I get a bit bored with people who slag off people who dont pay a whopping huge 40/50% when they earn good money. Sanctimonious bull. If you think you would, if you earned their money youre suffering from delusions. If not, fab, you work out how much money it is betwwen what you earn now and 40% and give it to the tax man. What? Wont do it? Shocker.

Although I can’t say I am a ken fan either! 😉 arsh!

So, in summary,

Legal tax avoidance by the left = OK
Legal tax avoidance by anyone else = kitten-raping nazis.
❓

that is another one of you impartial and fair minded interpretation of a thread that makes it clear your education was money well spent

the anti-semitic, terrorist-supporting, tax-avoiding, anti-gay, philandering drunkard and general all round nasty piece of work that Ken is

Is a classic example of someone who wants to take British politics into the gutter, and just how devoid they are of any meaningful political argument.

As if British politics wasn’t already at an all time low and discredited in the eyes of the electorate.

So Zulu-Eleven, I take it you don’t agree with Mr Johnson’s opinions of Ken Livingstone then ?

Let me remind you what they are …… Boris to Ken :

“I think you have been a very considerable public servant and a distinguished leader of this city. You shaped the office of mayor. You gave it national prominence and when London was attacked on July 7 2005 you spoke for London.

And I can tell you that your courage and the sheer exuberant nerve with which you stuck it to your enemies, especially in New Labour, you have thereby earned the thanks of millions of Londoners even if you think that they have a funny way of showing it today.

When we have that drink together, which we both so richly deserve, I hope we can discover a way in which the mayoralty can continue to benefit from your transparent love of London, a city whose energy conquered the world and which now brings the world together in one city”

Sorry Ernie?

are you telling me he’s not? or just trying to call that gutter politics because you know its all true?

I suppose he’s some form of flawed genius 😆

Sorry Ernie?

OK, I’ll repeat it.

So Zulu-Eleven, I take it you don’t agree with Mr Johnson’s opinions of Ken Livingstone then ?

Let me remind you what they are …… Boris to Ken :

“I think you have been a very considerable public servant and a distinguished leader of this city. You shaped the office of mayor. You gave it national prominence and when London was attacked on July 7 2005 you spoke for London.

And I can tell you that your courage and the sheer exuberant nerve with which you stuck it to your enemies, especially in New Labour, you have thereby earned the thanks of millions of Londoners even if you think that they have a funny way of showing it today.

When we have that drink together, which we both so richly deserve, I hope we can discover a way in which the mayoralty can continue to benefit from your transparent love of London, a city whose energy conquered the world and which now brings the world together in one city”

Well ?

Why are the opinions of Boris, notably in a “I’ll be polite, it’s an acceptance speech” if I’m not mistaken,of any relevance here?

Sorry, what’s the relevance Ernie?

What has Borises opinion of a limited list of Kens time in office got to do with Ken’s blatant tax avoidance and hypocrisy?

Let alone his liturgy of other faults?

Sorry, what’s the relevance Ernie?

How about, you slagging him off and Mr Johnson praising him ?

Answer the question.

Sorry – where does Boris say that Ken is not an:

anti-semitic
terrorist-supporting
tax-avoiding
anti-gay
philandering
drunkard
general all round nasty piece of work

?

So you do agree with what Boris said about Ken then ?

It would be easier if you just answered the direct question with a direct answer.

But of course you won’t.

Why is it relevant, Ernie?

Answer the question.

That article is rubbish. He’s doing what the law and taxation system allows. And they allow it because working on your own for a series of different employers, any of whom can throw you out with a day’s notice, is a very different deal to working for one employer who has to give you three months notice, a pension plan and who knows what else.

I suspect Andrew Gilligan knows that but is too dishonest to mention it.

He’s doing what the law and taxation system allow

Indeed he is. However, he has mouthed off about how evil this is. Hypocrisy? I rather think so.