For once on this thread I’d totally agree …. and hence my whole point about forcing people to do something WE think is fun with the expectation they find it fun or saying they would find it fun was it not for social conditioning.

I never thought I would see that happening, although not sure we agree for the same reason 🙂

It is not about forcing people to do something it is about making it seen as an option of something they may like to try. If they are conditioned to think it is not for them they won’t try it, just as most boys won’t wear a skirt even though in summer it is probably a good idea.

The lack of self awareness on this thread is incredible. You lot do know why there are so many “Someone is wrong on the internet” memes/cartoonsjokes/podcasts/etc. don’t you? (rhetorical: I won’t be back to read any answers! 😆 )
And Alpin’s post was so obviously wind up. Jeez.

The lack of self awareness on this thread is incredible.

Yeah, conversation earlier with wife:

Me: How is daughter going to get to school in future, she won’t want to cycle in a skirt when she’s older.

Wife: Why can’t she cycle in a skirt?

Me: Dunno, I just heard girls didn’t like to cycle in skirts.

Wife: (Incredulous) They can. (Followed by a list of friends and neighbours who are regularly seen cycling in dresses and skirts)

I won’t quote the bit where I was forced to confess that I had drawn conclusions on the limitations of UK female clothing based on something a bloke on the internet said. I forsee (more) mockery in my immediate future.

OOB

I won’t quote the bit where I was forced to confess that I had drawn conclusions on the limitations of UK female clothing based on something a bloke on the internet said. I forsee (more) mockery in my immediate future.

This is my point… well not just what “some blokes said” but deciding why women don’t ride based on asking women that do ride or trying to satisfy an agenda.

Weirdly? My son pushes his BMX home of a night to walk home with his 2 school friends one of whom identifies as female and the other as non-binary.

Equally I can tell you the main reason more kids don’t ride to/from school is because they have nowhere to put a helmet at school and have to carry it around with them all day and because bikes are regularly stolen from the bike storage (hence why he rides the BMX to school).

I didn’t actually ask but I overheard a conversation saying bye where skirts were discussed but what I heard was “I don’t want to wear a shorts or a skort though”. (Not sure which one and didn’t ask)

It is not about forcing people to do something it is about making it seen as an option of something they may like to try. If they are conditioned to think it is not for them they won’t try it, just as most boys won’t wear a skirt even though in summer it is probably a good idea.

As I’ve said repeatedly… their are FAR FAR bigger barriers than gender conception.
What do you REALLY think is the reason a boy from an inner city who eats due to foodbanks doesn’t ride horses?

Do you actually believe that we have no female ski jumpers (I know of) in the UK because of gender?

I’m sure somewhere on a forum a bunch of blokes are talking about the challenges they have to play netball and the gender equality paygap in mens netball…

I’ve NOTHING against netball… but I’m not going to lose sleep over it. I’m not interested in netball because of anything to do with gender, I’m not interested because I don’t like team sports.

I personally think the opposite should be addressed first… that is the cultural expectation for people to like a specific sport/activity and the pressure put on them or forcing them to justify why they don’t want to participate rather than just listen when they say “I just don’t want to do it”.

It is not about forcing people to do something

Where do you* draw the line?
How many times does someone have to say “I’m just not interested” … do you* accept that or do you* require them to justify it?

I’m using 1st person in a more general sense really.

At the end of the day why not accept that there may be some things less women or men like or even have an appetite for?

If you REALLY want to know why less of a gender do a specific thing don’t ask the ones that do it, ask the ones that don’t…. without pressure and be willing to listen to their answers including “it just doesn’t appeal to me or I’d rather spend the time/money on other things”.

As I’ve said repeatedly… their are FAR FAR bigger barriers than gender conception.

Not really. I came from a poor household but I still loved bikes and always had bikes even if those bikes were given to me for free such was the condition.

If you REALLY want to know why less of a gender do a specific thing don’t ask the ones that do it, ask the ones that don’t…. without pressure and be willing to listen to their answers including “it just doesn’t appeal to me or I’d rather spend the time/money on other things”.

Okay, so you don’t understand social conditioning

And Alpin’s post was so obviously wind up. Jeez.

I know I’m the OP, yet have only just caught up with this thread. After 6 or so pages I must admit to being none the wiser as to which men are trolling/posting wind-ups/strawman-battles. Ho hum.

________

@Tracey those pics are ace btw – happy days, lucky kids. Still trying to work out yr bike’s Q factor on that classic step descent so am going with foot-slip 😎

It was the 90s before I got a look in at MTB but remember ‘doing steps’ shenanigans featuring prominently, as did ‘hanging off the back of the seat’ while also trying not to sit on a muddy Tioga…

Trying to spin the pedal and find the toe clip, for those old enough to remember them.

I finally ditched them after my first Alps trip to Verbier and bought some proper pedals.

kerley

Okay, so you don’t understand social conditioning

I’m sure the irony is lost but here you are the victim of social conditioning that there is some huge white male conspiracy to keep women out of some sports and you don’t realise you’ve been socially conditioned.

This so reminds me of the last election … Jezzer being told my millions of traditional labour voters why they were going to vote for someone/anyone else but Labour whilst he would become PM. The MP’s of traditional safe labour seats talking to the electorate and Jezzer ignoring them completely and instead only asking those who were going to vote for him regardless.

It’s the same with every flat earther, anti-vaxer …
It starts: The earth is flat, the globe is a conspiracy …
Why isn’t water flung off the earth if its round
gravity and the fact the earth spins so slowly
gravity doesn’t exist …
Huh… why not
It’s just a theory and doesn’t support my assertion the earth is flat
But the earth isn’t flat …
The earth (supposedly) spins at thousands of miles an hour
The earth is a globe, spin is how fast or slow not a vector and it rotates once every 24 hours… and who told you the earth spins at thousands of miles an hour at the Poles
The poles don’t exist… the South pole is an international conspiracy

So it goes on… though of course you can’t even say that on a flat earth site without being cancelled.

Why don’t more women ride bikes for pleasure?
White Male Privilege
What if they just don’t want to?
They do they just got told that because of White Male Privilege
Did you ask a bunch?
No you can’t ask the ones who don’t ride, only the ones who do….
Erm …. but obviously they may have reasons how will you know if you won’t ask
Can’t ask.. not listening… hands over ears cos White Male Privilege .. you obviously don’t understand social conditioning

This thread is hilarious.

I just asked my Mrs why she doesn’t ride a bike, she said it is uncomfortable and boring. I showed her the video in the OP, asked how that can be boring. She got bored and skipped to the end.

She used to ride bikes with her brothers and sisters as a kid, then discovered things she would rather do with her time. Her brother doesn’t ride a bike as an adult either.

Make of that what you will…

I’m sure the irony is lost but here you are the victim of social conditioning that there is some huge white male conspiracy to keep women out of some sports and you don’t realise you’ve been socially conditioned.

While male conspiracy, wtf. Social conditioning comes from all places – men of all colours, women of all colours, religions etc,.

But can you see why asking a person who has been socially conditioned (your idea) of why they don’t think something is for them is flawed?

Can you please try and answer in less than 10 lines.

After reading some of this I’m trying to decide if being white, male, open minded and trying to bring up two wee boys i’m part of the problem or part of the solution.

It’s been a nice week Steve, i reckon you need to get out and ride your bike (but only if you really want to and you’d rather not be doing something else)

toe clip,

Solved!

old enough

Guilty. Swapped a pair on the tourer last summer for some cheap flats for instant lockdown gravelizing. They’ll be back on when I’m up to touring again. I remember having a pair on an early Rockhopper, along with tight toe-straps 😳

#nobailz

I’m possibly not one to ask as I do ride a bike for fun 😀 but like everything the reason why less women might ride bikes less is probably caught up with the roles rest of society.
I don’t believe there is some big conspiracy by men to stop women cycling, in my experience men have been generally friendly and welcoming. Where I live and in my age range they are also by far in the majority.

I don’t claim to have any expert knowledge so could be wrong but here’s how I see it.
– If I was born 20 years earlier I would have been expected to get married and raise children and do all the housework. Maybe you’d do some secretarial work when the children were older. It would have been very rare to do otherwise and so there was little time for hobbies where you might leave the house for a half days ride.
– I’m mid 40’s a lot of women my age who have had children have done most of the child rearing and housework whilst also doing full or part time jobs. Now the child rearing may be by choice but no one wants to do the housework. At my age there are a lot more options, personally I stayed child free got a good job & share the house work 50/50 so have plenty of time for hobbies. For my age I have made non typical choices.
– I see people in their 20’s with children sharing both child raising and housework much more evenly, so now so men and women have much more equal free time. With widely available contraception raising children can be planned & chosen if wanted but it is becoming more accepted that you may choose not to.
– Also 1 week a month many women don’t want to be out for several hours away from a bathroom.

Women as much as men have all this historical baggage that their parents and grandparents pass down as to what is women’s & men’s work and what are potential hobbies. I’ve had plenty of comments from both women and men as to why I’d want to do the hobbies and career I’ve chosen.
As society changes we’ll see more how much of these choices are to do with nature and how much to do with how we have been raised and other societal pressures. Till then what’s the harm in showing girls that riding bikes could be for them and is fun. At least then its seen as an option to consider along with everything else. They may then choose to do something completely different just like anyone should be able to.

Late to this party so it may have been covered but lots of pics of kids on bikes (and kids in tank tops washing Cortinas) in the 70s and 80s at https://www.instagram.com/thepeoples_archive/?hl=en. Not sure if there are many lasses but regardless it’s a great little corner of Instagram.

Unfortunately OOB and Steve have both fell into the trap that should have been obvious from page 1, and that you both have even mentioned yourselves! Yes, there are other reasons females may not ride bikes, but the fact the there are others surely suggests that the societal reasons are still valid. The horse riding example has also derailed the thread slightly (cost).

Some of the points you both make (about choice and happiness) are spot on and cant be argued. However something you both seem to be missing, that has been pointed out several times, is that just maybe females don’t try cycling because

it just doesn’t appeal to me

Isn’t actually the reason, the reason would be what has been seen/heard whatever to make them think it doesnt.

I also liked Steve’s instrument example up there with the Oboe and Flute. But has been said, if up until that point of being able to choose to try it, if they want to, those males and females had seen ONLY males playing the Oboe and Females playing the Flute then chances are the split would be exactly as suggested.

Late to the thread, but I’ve been riding a bike since I was 4 in the 1970s. I rode all sorts of unsuitable bikes in the woods- including skinny tyred road bikes, shopping bikes with small wheels and a basket! My mum would tell me off for what she saw as wantonly wrecking my bikes, but I ignored her. I certainly wasn’t the only girl riding bikes. All the kids in my street virtually lived on bikes.
When BMXs came out, I really wanted one but my mum said they were for boys. If only mountain bikes had been a thing when I was a kid!
Almost all of the people I go mountain biking with are blokes, but I know a lot of women who ride road bikes.

Till then what’s the harm in showing girls that riding bikes could be for them and is fun. At least then its seen as an option to consider

Because if you read Steve’s very long posts you will understand that the men on this thread are just trying to force women to ride bikes and they don’t want to!!

it just doesn’t appeal to me Isn’t actually the reason, the reason would be what has been seen/heard whatever to make them think it doesnt.

Yeah, when women like/don’t like something it doesn’t really count because it’s not valid because it just their conditioning. Whereas when men like/don’t like something it’s a genuine considered viewpoint that everyone respects. As we can see from this thread.

If I say I don’t like Marion Keys because I read the first few pages of one and it just doesn’t appeal to me that is accepted without question. But if a woman says it she is assumed to just need some mansplaining to help her see the error of her ways set her on the right track.

Men have experienced the same conditioning mechanisms as women. Rather than telling women to change, how about setting an example and you start doing the stuff that doesn’t really appeal to you?

Are there other circumstances where women say they don’t want to do something but they don’t really mean it?

Actually if anyone on here would like a tip: I used to be a regular poster on here but have been put off by either being largely ignored or the butt of condescending remarks including some when I had an accident last year. None of the guys I ride bikes with in real life are at all condescending, but pockets of this forum do have a problem in that respect.

But can you see why asking a person who has been socially conditioned (your idea) of why they don’t think something is for them is flawed?

Nope, not so long as you are willing to listen to the answers.
What is pointless is to keep asking them until they agree with your (not you personally) theory out of pure boredom or frustration.

being largely ignored

That probably just means you’re saying reasonable things that people broadly agree with. One more reason a like button would be fantastic.

jag1

I’m possibly not one to ask as I do ride a bike for fun 😀

Just not exclusively

but like everything the reason why less women might ride bikes less is probably caught up with the roles rest of society.
I don’t believe there is some big conspiracy by men to stop women cycling, in my experience men have been generally friendly and welcoming. Where I live and in my age range they are also by far in the majority.

Yeah, who’d a think it when I was a young, single heterosexual male I’d want women to do the same stuff so I could meet women into the same stuff as me … now I’m an old grumpy past-it I still like meeting women into the same stuff, just cos they are other people.

I don’t claim to have any expert knowledge so could be wrong but here’s how I see it.
– If I was born 20 years earlier I would have been expected to get married and raise children and do all the housework. Maybe you’d do some secretarial work when the children were older. It would have been very rare to do otherwise and so there was little time for hobbies where you might leave the house for a half days ride.
– I’m mid 40’s a lot of women my age who have had children have done most of the child rearing and housework whilst also doing full or part time jobs. Now the child rearing may be by choice but no one wants to do the housework. At my age there are a lot more options, personally I stayed child free got a good job & share the house work 50/50 so have plenty of time for hobbies. For my age I have made non typical choices.

Yep and I at least am talking about the future, I really had no illusions of dragging my 83yr old mum down Dyfi or Rev’s… though we did climb Ingleborough last week.
I think to a large extent you were possibly ahead of the times… and the choices you had to be an exception for are now open to more or less all.

– I see people in their 20’s with children sharing both child raising and housework much more evenly, so now so men and women have much more equal free time. With widely available contraception raising children can be planned & chosen if wanted but it is becoming more accepted that you may choose not to.
– Also 1 week a month many women don’t want to be out for several hours away from a bathroom.

I’ll skip the last point … but yep I agree and the life choices today are completely different to the 1950’s.

Women as much as men have all this historical baggage that their parents and grandparents pass down as to what is women’s & men’s work and what are potential hobbies.

Completely agree… but we don’t need to carry that baggage round.

I’ve had plenty of comments from both women and men as to why I’d want to do the hobbies and career I’ve chosen.
As society changes we’ll see more how much of these choices are to do with nature and how much to do with how we have been raised and other societal pressures. Till then what’s the harm in showing girls that riding bikes could be for them and is fun. At least then its seen as an option to consider along with everything else. They may then choose to do something completely different just like anyone should be able to.

Absolutely non… the other part of this though is not everyone will want to make your choices and that’s OK too. (I’m not implying you said otherwise .. it’s just an addition)
Some women actually want the massive SUV to drop the sprogs at school, to have no need to work and a partner that is happy to pay.

If I say I don’t like Marion Keys because I read the first few pages of one and it just doesn’t appeal to me that is accepted without question. But if a woman says it she is assumed to just need some mansplaining to help her see the error of her ways set her on the right track.

and

Rather than telling women to change, how about setting an example and you start doing the stuff that doesn’t really appeal to you?

Shows you didn’t understand my point, so I’ll try to be clearer.

Your first example, you read something by her, you tried it, and it didn’t appeal to you (language use, content, storyline etc etc). Fine, no issue. What if you hadn’t read it and when asked if you would, said it doesn’t appeal to me, the question now is why doesn’t it appeal because you haven’t tried it? If a woman said she’d read it and it didnt appeal, the reply would be exactly the same. So for the MTB question this started on, why doesn’t MTB appeal to more women (who haven’t tried it), and can the industry do something to change that to see if uptake increases?

The second point, is completely irrelevant. I didn’t say change women, or make them do something that doesn’t appeal to them, much like I wouldn’t make men do something that doesn’t appeal to them. I asked why it didn’t appeal to them, as perhaps this is something that we could do something about.

Vickypea

Late to the thread, but I’ve been riding a bike since I was 4 in the 1970s. I rode all sorts of unsuitable bikes in the woods- including skinny tyred road bikes, shopping bikes with small wheels and a basket! My mum would tell me off for what she saw as wantonly wrecking my bikes, but I ignored her. I certainly wasn’t the only girl riding bikes. All the kids in my street virtually lived on bikes.
When BMXs came out, I really wanted one but my mum said they were for boys. If only mountain bikes had been a thing when I was a kid!

Other than being a bloke and a couple of years older almost exactly the same ..right up to the point of skateboards, BMX and then motorbikes when my mum said “you’ll kill yourself”

My younger brother (must be about your age) however got a skateboard, BMX, moped … but he spent (and still does) a lot less of his childhood up to that point in A&E…

either being largely ignored or the butt of condescending remarks

OOB stole the first part … the second part of being ignored is perhaps people answering for you… which is IMHO very condescending…

“ After reading some of this I’m trying to decide if being white, male, open minded and trying to bring up two wee boys i’m part of the problem or part of the solution.”

You and every other parent, regardless their background is a big part of the solution. My elder daughter (aged 8) gets told by boys at school that girls can’t play football, which upsets her, because she can. Where do they get that ridiculous idea from?

They haven’t told her that girls can’t ride bikes or go MTBing but she is better at it than the rest of her year.

One of her friends is the biggest boy in the year but he likes many stereotypically girly things as well as plenty of stereotypical boy stuff – but he’s been bullied by a little girl who goes to an evangelical church because he sometimes likes to wear pink clothes and leggings and she says boys shouldn’t do that.

Anyone who deals with children has a duty to not repeat the mistakes of past generations and instead to enable children to become the adults they want to be, not the adults that society forces them to be.

Also, if you don’t have children or your children are older, go and look at the kids clothes in any of the supermarkets. FFS.

crazyjenkins

Unfortunately OOB and Steve have both fell into the trap that should have been obvious from page 1, and that you both have even mentioned yourselves! Yes, there are other reasons females may not ride bikes, but the fact the there are others surely suggests that the societal reasons are still valid. The horse riding example has also derailed the thread slightly (cost).

Some of the points you both make (about choice and happiness) are spot on and cant be argued. However something you both seem to be missing, that has been pointed out several times, is that just maybe females don’t try cycling because

it just doesn’t appeal to me

Isn’t actually the reason, the reason would be what has been seen/heard whatever to make them think it doesnt.

or it might not be … to take an extreme example (because it makes the point).
Why has Rachel never done hardline?
the reason she gives or because of social conditioning by men? (not the current reason which is obviously female specific)

I’ll take a guess that if she had been told she couldn’t do it because she’s a woman she’d have actually had a go.

So Hardline is Hardline … and at the extremes (a good way to test hypotheses if you watch Physics Girl on YT) but there is nothing wrong with a woman (or man) saying I just don’t fancy it or I don’t want to get badly injured, I don’t like the heat/cold etc..

I don’t want to do hardline because I’d die…

I also liked Steve’s instrument example up there with the Oboe and Flute. But has been said, if up until that point of being able to choose to try it, if they want to, those males and females had seen ONLY males playing the Oboe and Females playing the Flute then chances are the split would be exactly as suggested.

The thing is why would it matter?
If we swap Oboe for Cello would it matter if Jacqueline du Pre had chosen flute or violin so long as she had the choice of learning an instrument?
Perhaps… and I mean perhaps had she chosen violin we may have been robbed of one of the greatest Cellists ever .. but odds on had she heard a violin and instead been as passionate abpout that she’d doubtless have been an exceptional violinist…

My point really is so long as people find something they enjoy does it matter?
That I was robbed of being a ski-jumper by an accident of geography… is it a big deal?
I’d probably be an average ski-jumper like I’m an average MTBer…

+1 agree with jag1. Great post imo

I don’t believe there is some big conspiracy by men to stop women cycling

And I don’t think that anyone else here does (at least I’ve not read anything to convince me otherwise). Excepting, of course, the legions of STW menifeminazi strawmen

with whom Certain Dominant Voices Here & Elsewhere do battle with surprising temerity. 🤣

but there is nothing wrong with a woman (or man) saying I just don’t fancy it or I don’t want to get badly injured, I don’t like the heat/cold etc..

I don’t want to do hardline because I’d die…

Exactly Steve. I’d argue these are reasons, (and, with my skillz, very good ones!) but they actually are reasons. And there is nothing wrong with that. Whereas IMO “it doesn’t appeal to me” isn’t, in itself, a reason, but a symptom of what the reasons are. Like you said up there (I believe you said it, apologies if not) sewing doesn’t appeal to you, the reason being it feels like a chore. What’s being said though, is there is a possibility that it doesn’t appeal to some men because its subliminally seen as a female activity. Like possibly, MTB is seen as a male activity. Maybe it isn’t the only/biggest reason, but is it one easily changed to maybe help it to appeal to more females?

My point really is so long as people find something they enjoy does it matter?

If they enjoy it, no absolutely not. However, if there is even the chance there is a message/signal/conditioning whether intentional or not, that you cant/shouldn’t do/try this because of your gender, surely there should be people trying to change that message….

That I was robbed of being a ski-jumper by an accident of geography… is it a big deal?

This isn’t completely accurate though. This is a slightly more difficult thing to quantify because you being born and growing up somewhere this isn’t readily available is a very hard thing to change, and IMO not comparable.

Ah, I see someone mentioned skirts and bikes….. Let me tell you this. Last year I was struggling up a climb at a perfectly respectable fat, knackered, old man speed. When I was casually overtaken by a lady on an e-bike hybrid thing wearing pumps, a cardy and a skirt!

Can you imagine how utterly emasculated that me feel……..? It may take me years to get over that.

So, be careful what you wish for I say!………. 😉

So, be careful what you wish for I say!…

ebikes?

Nope, not so long as you are willing to listen to the answers.
What is pointless is to keep asking them until they agree with your (not you personally) theory out of pure boredom or frustration.

And as said above, if those answers are “I have never tried it but it is not for me” what does that tell you. And who is saying that anybody would keeping asking the women (in your theoretical survey) until they agree with you?
Can you just answer a question without just making up stuff that nobody has said please. And also try to put your confused points in the first 5 lines to save us the agony.

crazyjenkins01

Exactly Steve. I’d argue these are reasons, (and, with my skillz, very good ones!) but they actually are reasons. And there is nothing wrong with that. Whereas IMO “it doesn’t appeal to me” isn’t, in itself, a reason, but a symptom of what the reasons are.

Yes, its a collection of reasons
but “so what”.
There are plenty of people that have an agenda to show this is due to white male privilege and are quite happy to keep asking until someone agrees out of pure frustration/boredom.

Ultimately, people are different in what they like and on average there are differences between genders as well. When I see a waterfall or sea-cliff for example I see something to jump off… wheras my brother doesn’t.
I see sod all point trying to tell my brother “come-on, it’s fun – you really want to, give it a try”.
He owns 2x MTB’s a trek Remedy 8 and some Trek eBike thing.. but he also owns road bikes and gravel bikes. Both MTB’s have dried up sealant and the tyres are completely flat… and haven’t been ridden in years.

I did try (2-3 weeks ago) to get him on an MTB on some mild stuff, he just wasn’t interested .. we did go out on the road though .. not something I really enjoyed but hey… he just wasn’t into MTB.

So if instead he was a sister should I have persisted… “yeah you want to really, it’s just cos of male dominated blah blah”

Like you said up there (I believe you said it, apologies if not) sewing doesn’t appeal to you, the reason being it feels like a chore. What’s being said though, is there is a possibility that it doesn’t appeal to some men because its subliminally seen as a female activity. Like possibly, MTB is seen as a male activity. Maybe it isn’t the only/biggest reason, but is it one easily changed to maybe help it to appeal to more females?

But why does it matter ???
More to the point if MTB is seen as a “male activity” how do you seek to change it?
We can push more girls and women onto bikes .. we can continue of expend banning men from riding in places at certain times and .. ???

say we do this and it turns out less than 50% of people that want to do MTB are female what then???

Based on my biased sample of “women who ride” then there is no specific answer to:
More or less attention in a bike shop
More or less pink bikes/clothing

Based on an even more biased girls/young ladies that ride… banning men at certain times/places isn’t the answer either. Jnr is “requested”/”invited”

Look at it this way … I have spent the best part of 5 decades being told “you really do like football” the more people pushed the more I disliked it.
I’m pretty sure along the way I’ve probably used all sorts of excuses to shut up the people trying to convince me I actually do like something I disliked and now hate. I won’t read newspapers I can’t remove the sports section for example… I’ll not go in a pub or bar that has football..

I’m pretty sure along the way I’ve said “because its a girls sport” … (and all sorts) but I just don’t like it, its not for me but the more I’ve been pushed the more I started to not be uninterested but to actively dislike it… and the more I’ll resort to telling the insistent person what they want to hear or just make up answers,

Like you said up there (I believe you said it, apologies if not) sewing doesn’t appeal to you, the reason being it feels like a chore.

Close enough … but more accurately, it’s a means to an end.
I like making or fixing things … be they curtains or electrical/mechanical but any sewing/soldering/welding is just a way to make/fix something.

I don’t like road cycling but if it gets me to the trails its a means to an end… and also gives some health benefits.

kerley

And as said above, if those answers are “I have never tried it but it is not for me” what does that tell you.

It tells me people have a pretty good idea of the sort of stuff they like and the sort of stuff they don’t.

I don’t disagree with a lot of what you said Steve, and I’m in no way suggesting that pushing more females (or anybodies!) onto bikes is a good idea, or banning males (or anybody) at certain times/days etc.

The question that has been raised and debated is actually more around inclusivity in general, but given a gender slant this time. I suppose the real question is ‘is MTB inclusive?’ and much like the “person is smart, people are stupid” type sayings, on a personal level throughout the sport, absolutely it is inclusive. But how many women grace the pages of MTB publications? How often? Do companies like, I dont know, Red Bull for example use their female sponsored athletes in equal amounts as their males?  How often is it really shown that MTB is for all, including females.

and this point

say we do this and it turns out less than 50% of people that want to do MTB are female what then???

then there can be no remarks about ‘its not for girls’ ‘its a males’ sport’ etc etc. and that would be fine by me.

It tells me people have a pretty good idea of the sort of stuff they like and the sort of stuff they don’t.

A good idea they don’t like something they have never tried because?
What do you think may lead them to think that?

Just leaving it at that and not thinking “I wonder why that is” is the thing being discussed here. Is it because cycling is not inclusive, is it social conditioning, is it genetic preferences – who knows, but to dismiss it is never going to change anything (if indeed anything could be changed)

Steve, it’s not about pushing people to do things, it’s about removing the barriers that stop them, however invisible those barriers may seem.

kerley

It tells me people have a pretty good idea of the sort of stuff they like and the sort of stuff they don’t.

A good idea they don’t like something they have never tried because?
What do you think may lead them to think that?

In the case of cycling, I think it’s fair to say that most people will have tried some form of cycling at some point in their life. Much as we may love it, we have to accept that it simply doesn’t apeal to some people.

I agree whole heartedly with the equality supporting arguements of this thread but I think we should also give people credit for having some idea of what apeals to them and what doesn’t. There are loads of things that simply don’t apeal to me that I have never tried and I am quite happy with that.

“I think we should also give people credit for having some idea of what apeals to them and what doesn’t.”

Yes but we also need to acknowledge that no-one grows up in a vacuum so much of what appeals to them will depend upon their upbringing.