Only if it completely out of your own free will, and not as a result of subconscious social conditioning.

If there’s a choice, I’d definitely recommend doing something else with your evening.

AA

You really really don’t get it do you, its quite funny.

Its actually quite sad that you can’t see that you want to tell other people what they should and shouldn’t enjoy according to your ideals.

I very much doubt you will find the answers on a cycling forum but if you go and ask 1000 women who don’t cycle and ask why they don’t cycle you might have to convince them they should because society has prevented them doing what they really secretly wanted to do but were prevented doing.

You might want to expand this and cover a few sports at the same time like heliskiing, luge, etc.

AA “So do you participate in ski jumping”
Confused female “are you having a laugh”
AA “So you don’t are you aware that is because it is portrayed as a male sport and you really really always wanted to do it”
Confused female: Erm… no its cos we don’t have a ski jump near me.
AA If they did women’s only days at the ski jump would that have made you continue
Confused female “Look its the bloody Isle of Wight … we don’t have a ski jump” …
AA “but if they did”
Confused female “probably not I spent most of my teens at the go carting track with my mates and sailing then I got a job and I barely have time to pick the shopping up on the way home”

doubleeagle

I suspect that there are cultural/societal aspects which drive that far more than the activity itself. And if that is the case then… maybe as members of the cycling community that could be something that we get to influence.

There probably are but then by rights if that’s the case I should like football.
Much as I got into cycling (at 14-15) because of a girl called Toni I think we broke up at least in part because I just didn’t like football and she did.

Not societal pressure .. not like she was “ooh you’re not a real bloke” but because I wanted to do other stuff at the weekends like running or climbing rather than go to watch football which I find incredibly boring.

In the end (a few years later) I drifted away from road cycling because the truth is I just don’t really like team sports… except Rugby and that’s really only playing not watching.

Its actually quite sad that you can’t see that you want to tell other people what they should and shouldn’t enjoy according to your ideals.

I very much doubt you will find the answers on a cycling forum but if you go and ask 1000 women who don’t cycle and ask why they don’t cycle you might have to convince them they should because society has prevented them doing what they really secretly wanted to do but were prevented doing.

You might want to expand this and cover a few sports at the same time like heliskiing, luge, etc.

AA “So do you participate in ski jumping”
Confused female “are you having a laugh”
AA “So you don’t are you aware that is because it is portrayed as a male sport and you really really always wanted to do it”
Confused female: Erm… no its cos we don’t have a ski jump near me.
AA If they did women’s only days at the ski jump would that have made you continue
Confused female “Look its the bloody Isle of Wight … we don’t have a ski jump” …
AA “but if they did”
Confused female “probably not I spent most of my teens at the go carting track with my mates and sailing then I got a job and I barely have time to pick the shopping up on the way home”

Is there a shorter version 🙄🙄🙄

Its actually quite sad that you can’t see that you want to tell other people what they should and shouldn’t enjoy according to your ideals.

No I want everyone to feel open and able and wanted in any sport/hobby, that you can’t see this is monumentally amusing and says so much about you! The lack of understanding about unconscious bias you display is startling tbh.

Stevextc – you do realise when people are talking about social conditioning, no-one is actually accusing you, personally of actively turning women away from any activities. So you talking about all the female WhatsApp members you communicate with is kind of irrelevant? What is more relevant is that you have repeatedly stated that some parents are actively trying to discourage their daughters from MTB as it’s “not for girls”. That’s social conditioning. That is what we are talking about. So in your examples you meet and interact with young women where one parent or other part of their social circle has encouraged participation, while another has actively discouraged it based on their sex. I’m struggling to understand that you cannot conceive of any young women out there raised in environments where for instance both parents have actively discouraged participation in MTB as it is “not for girls”. They won’t be on your WhatsApp, you won’t meet them on the trails, because they have been conditioned to believe the sport is not for them.
No-one on this thread has stated that only men are responsible for this happening – but the phrasing of your contributions suggests that you believe that is what is implied.

Is there a shorter version

I have just given up reading them, they are really not worth the time.

6 pages of angry men arguing about why women don’t like bikes whilst the four women that did respond are roundly ignored.
Bra-****ing-vo fellas, 👏.
Everyone one of you ought to take step back and have a critical look at yourselves.

Well I am not angry for one, maybe you need to make more effort to understand what people are writing than what you want to think they are writing.

I also have very little clue as to what gender a lot of the posters are unless they state it in the posts.

Agree, no anger from me and I also don’t know what gender the posters are but more importantly that doesn’t actually matter.

Cinnamon_girl is wouldn’t. But the video that the OP posted is very good.

I’ve realised I was wrong and there is no such thing as social pressure or gender bias.
Outofbreath and SteveXTC have both taught me the error of my ways.

Also I have a headache from banging my head against a brick wall.

I ordered a copy of in invisible women. As recommended earlier in the thread.

Retromud

Stevextc – you do realise when people are talking about social conditioning, no-one is actually accusing you, personally of actively turning women away from any activities. So you talking about all the female WhatsApp members you communicate with is kind of irrelevant? What is more relevant is that you have repeatedly stated that some parents are actively trying to discourage their daughters from MTB as it’s “not for girls”. That’s social conditioning. That is what we are talking about. So in your examples you meet and interact with young women where one parent or other part of their social circle has encouraged participation, while another has actively discouraged it based on their sex. I’m struggling to understand that you cannot conceive of any young women out there raised in environments where for instance both parents have actively discouraged participation in MTB as it is “not for girls”. They won’t be on your WhatsApp, you won’t meet them on the trails, because they have been conditioned to believe the sport is not for them.
No-one on this thread has stated that only men are responsible for this happening – but the phrasing of your contributions suggests that you believe that is what is implied.

Can I start at the end … several people on this thread have stated categorically that the problem is down to white males.
The issue if it exists is two separate things from what I observe.

As I said the social conditioning in this that exists that I see is exclusively from mothers.
As I think ashat said this isn’t her experience. (Which thinking about it make sense)

I think both are relevant… and as I’ve been trying to point out the result of sample bias.
My son’s mother will tell her “little” (35 yr old) sister who is very successful and independent she shouldn’t participate in these sports … because (IMHO) she’s her sister. She wouldn’t say it to Ashat or my female cycling buddies (unless she’d had a few glasses of wine perhaps)… but she will say it to me. My mate Annabel broke her fib and tib 2 weeks ago… my son asked after her (over dinner) and the response from his mother “it’s her own fault, she shouldn’t be doing it”… her sister very nearly died (that isn’t an exaggeration) in an avalanche and her response “it’s her own fault, she shouldn’t be doing it”.. same when she lost part of her finger last year… no sympathy at all because she’s doing “man stuff” doubtless she’d have the same sympathy if she’d fallen off a ladder doing “man stuff” like painting.

However .. why would these other mothers say this to me (or annabels husband) and not Annabel or ashat ???

I think it’s because they somehow think that because I’m male I’ll agree but Annabel or ashat won’t.

What do you think? (That’s actually a question not rhetoric)

So in the first thread of this… (as I’ve been saying) from what I see it is not the males (under 50 at least) but actually females who for one reason or another (probably a whole different thread) didn’t want this change. Lets just hypothise many of these are quite happy driving the sprogs 1/2 mile to school in the SUV/4WD and not having to work.

Another observation is that many males are more worried about preserving some status quo for males and many females for females.

I mentioned football as an example… an ex manager of mine used to ridicule 2 of us and deliberately use football analogies. This is possibly even more outrageous as he’d probably drop dead given 30 secs of exercise and my other mate/colleague packed it in and is an outdoors instructor and lowland rescue volunteer.

So the thing is he can say he’s “into football”… but he shouldn’t be able to assume I or my mate are just because we are male

The same thing should surely apply for females? (or any other gender identity)

What is more relevant is that you have repeatedly stated that some parents are actively trying to discourage their daughters from MTB as it’s “not for girls”. That’s social conditioning. That is what we are talking about. So in your examples you meet and interact with young women where one parent or other part of their social circle has encouraged participation, while another has actively discouraged it based on their sex. I’m struggling to understand that you cannot conceive of any young women out there raised in environments where for instance both parents have actively discouraged participation in MTB as it is “not for girls”. They won’t be on your WhatsApp, you won’t meet them on the trails, because they have been conditioned to believe the sport is not for them.

It’s not one parent or the other it is ALWAYS the mother.
(The reasons for that… as above?)

So in the case both parents have discouraged due to gender I just don’t see the issue or how iut would change without forcing people to do what they don’t want.
It is what it is …. cycling is just cycling. You and I (and lots of females) love it but it’s just a hobby/sport/job.
If it turns out less females as a percent don’t fall in love with it for life that’s just what it is.

As I say I know the Surrey CC schools cycling coordinator well socially. I’m pretty certain she encourages girls every bit as much as boys… quite possibly more.
However I don’t think people should be FORCED…. if they don’t want to cycle then they don’t… any more than forced to play football/netball or anything else.
I happen to know neither does she… as my lad won’t ride on roads and has no desire to ever ride on roads. He declined the opportunity to do the school cycling and it was as simple as that. He didn’t get pressured into doing it “because he should try” etc. he just didn’t want to BUT he had the opportunity as did every other child M/F/other.

The issue here is life is full of expectations others have for you but M/F or anything else you shouldn’t have to fit into a stereotype.
I simply don’t like team sports … I don’t want a leadership role in work .. all things others have decided for me “I really want if only I knew it”.
My brother happens to be gay and has expectations from the gay community to be someone he’s not as another example.

This thread is actually a complete hijack of a celebration of a great video to some conspiracy theory as to why more girls don’t ride bikes with name calling and an agenda since about the 3rd post. Anyone saying “so what maybe less girls just want to ride bikes is jumped on or told their opinion is irrelevant” and shut down/cancelled.

Anyone who thinks the thumbnail and hotpants are accidental is seriously deluded…

Anyone who wants to support these girls would do better giving their video a like or comment.

Making derogatory comments about people who make comments on the hotpants is just screwed up… unless they criticise the girls for the thumbnail as well.

The point really is it’s just cycling … many girls and boys simply won’t do it because their parents sail or surf etc. just as with notable exceptions few people in the UK will ever try ski-jumping or bobsleigh.

Some won’t do it because their parents don’t think it’s a suitable activity for girls… but those that really want to will and those who might have but didn’t probably weren’t going to have it as a passion. (I’m talking 2021 here not 1999)….

You could just as easily talk about the barriers to mens netball and the gender paygap … perhaps on a mens netball forum somewhere people are right now?
Am I pissed I wasn’t given the opportunity to play mens netball?
Nope.. it would be wasted effort as I don’t like team sports regardless of how many times I told that is a disability or fault on my part… nothing to do with gender.

I’ve realised I was wrong and there is no such thing as social pressure or gender bias.
Outofbreath and SteveXTC have both taught me the error of my ways.

That’s absolutely not what I’m saying and I don’t believe it’s what OOB is saying either.

I have just given up reading them, they are really not worth the time.

Let me help.. do you believe in flat earth as well?

I have just given up reading them, they don’t support my conspiracy theory.

That’s absolutely not what I’m saying and I don’t believe it’s what OOB is saying either.

Yup, my whole point relies on there being gender bias.

I can hardly say that if men are happy with the things we’re biased towards then maybe we should consider that women might be equally happy with their choices without accepting gender bias.

I’ll offer another bias, men are biased towards thinking women ought to like the stuff men like. Women are more tolerant and accept that men are capable of making their own choices of interests without the interference of women. Rather than women learning to like airfix spitfires from men, men should learn tolerance towards other people’s interests from women. In spite of my words I’m as bad at this as the rest of the patriarchy, I make my daughter join in doing the stuff I like, (She’s getting old enough to say no now, but not quite yet!) I constantly nag my wife to cycle the school run instead of always driving. (With zero success.)

Viva la difference: It would be a very boring world of we all liked the same stuff.

I’ve just bought Invisible Women. Thanks for the recommendation.

Kudos to purchasers of Invisble Women. I also found this when looking for some more research articles on the topic https://www.coeo.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Pathways_31_4.pdf

And that’s a link to the whole edition! Scroll to P4 for the essay on male privilege

Yup, my whole point relies on there being gender bias.

Whereas my point is perhaps more why is gender bias different to socio economic, geographical or any other bias and why do we need to change it and how?

I also find the urge to sample bias very strange…
What’s the problem (other than perhaps not liking the answers) with asking women who don’t cycle their reasons rather than those who do anyway?

This is why I think riding horses is a good example…the claim seems to be men don’t ride horses because its seen as a woman’s thing. The quite obvious reason I don’t ride horses (as a hobby) is because I don’t come from affluent family, we had meat on the table 3-4 days a week, no heating in winter but apparently the reason I don’t ride horses must be “because I view it as a womens thing”? Nothing to do with not having a horse or the money to stable and feed one.

Why not ask 1000 men who don’t ride horses as a hobby their reasons why not, not someone who does tell us why why the other 999 don’t.

At the end of the day if giving everyone a chance to do a pass-time more men or women prefer one activity over another then what’s so bad and why try to change it. Are women who prefer not to cycle as a hobby “letting women down”?

I think its also obvious why most UK men and women don’t do ski-jumping just as its obvious why more people don’t ride horses as a hobby and it has sod all to do with gender.

Thanks for the article, nice to have some referenced facts.

“Men are often more constrained by concepts
of masculinity than women are by femininity,
and women are able to flip between
definitions with far more acceptance and
ease than men (Hargreaves, 1994).”

Starkly demonstrated by this thread. Men who accept they have been conditioned towards/away from stuff refusing to do something about it and take on pastimes that they consider “female”. QED.

The majority of humans are social/pack animals by nature and as such there is always going to be some form of social pressure(that could be internally or externally generated) that goes along with the need to belong and be accepted.

Rather than demanding that the media feed everyone with differing gender examples of every possible interest/sport passtime etc (how the hell do you achieve that anyway?)as seemed to be suggested earlier. Why can’t we equip people to recognise when they are unhappy/dissatisfied with whatever they are doing and teach them that there is nothing to fear from trying something new even if it means moving out of their current social circle?

OOB

Starkly demonstrated by this thread. Men who accept they have been conditioned towards/away from stuff refusing to do something about it and take on pastimes that they consider “female”. QED.

The reason I don’t count sewing as a pass-time is the same as welding. Neither are a passtime in and of themselves and just tools. If someone enjoys either for what they are that’s also fine.

Interesting article .. I’ll perhaps print it out and leave it to be read?
It fem-splains that I’m paying £1200 for a AirB&B with plugs for hairdryers for a beach holiday neither me or the kid want due to white male privilege.

jordan

Rather than demanding that the media feed everyone with differing gender examples of every possible interest/sport passtime etc (how the hell do you achieve that anyway?)as seemed to be suggested earlier. Why can’t we equip people to recognise when they are unhappy/dissatisfied with whatever they are doing and teach them that there is nothing to fear from trying something new even if it means moving out of their current social circle?

Gosh really ??

Next someone will say

Why can’t we equip people to recognise when they are happy/satisfied with whatever they are doing and teach them that there is nothing to fear from continuing to be happy/satisfied even if it means not moving out of their current social circle?

Let me help.. do you believe in flat earth as well?

I have just given up reading them, they don’t support my conspiracy theory.

Okay, that was about 1% the length of your normal posts so you can do it but unfortunately it still makes no sense as I really don’t know what the hell flat earth and conspiracy theory has got to do with anything but I will leave you to it.

stevextc

Gosh really ??

Next someone will say

Why can’t we equip people to recognise when they are happy/satisfied with whatever they are doing and teach them that there is nothing to fear from continuing to be happy/satisfied even if it means not moving out of their current social circle?

Isn’t that kind of what you’ve been saying all along in a rather roundabout way? Not that I think there is anything wrong with people being content with what they are doing at all. Oh, and I probably should have used the word acknowledge rather than recognise.

I got halfway through this thread and gave up. Sad to see so many of you fellow men being sucked in by social conditioning and perpetuating the lies that make it so much harder for anyone who’s a little bit different to enjoy their life. So disappointing…

Thank you to the ones who actually understand the problem.

Stevextc – apologies, still typing away on a tiny phone here and don’t know how to quote properly but I’ll try to respond to those direct questions.

First – I may have misinterpreted the previous posters references to middle aged white guys. I had been reading them as saying that middle aged white guys were a problem – in trying to resolve issues of gender bias (or any other exclusionary bias), because they are kind of a homogenous group, who don’t have the lived experience of anyone else to work out what would be required to successfully increase diversity. That was my own interpretation; it could have been that they were all referencing an organised white guy conspiracy that is deliberately trying to exclude women/minorities/anyone not a middle aged white guy.

I don’t know why your friend’s mother (is that the right relationship I’m referencing?) would conspire with you that she believes her daughter should give up outdoor pursuits as they are not suitable for girls. Unless they actually believe that having a penis would have somehow prevented injury or accident occurring, I can only suggest social conditioning – they believe some pursuits are not suitable for females, they believe that you as man would agree with that (as you do manly things instead of say, embroidery), and that females that she sees as “not normal” as they partake in manly pursuits would not agree with her. Obviously, I don’t agree with the whole genderising of activities implied in that.

It’s great that you think that no-one should have to live up to societies expectations of them regarding gender, no-one should be forced to do things they don’t want to (I don’t think anyone has actually suggested that have they?), and that everyone should be given the same opportunities. It’s on that last point that I would like to leave a little thought experiment with you, based on the thoughts on social conditioning that you have expressed in this thread.

Imagine a father, a run of the mill average dad, watches the footie on the weekends, jogs to keep fit but isn’t an enthusiast, never been into cycling. His teenage twins have been offered an afternoon trial of MTB through the local schools cycling co-ordinator type person, all fully funded. The son arrives home afterwards, “hey dad, that was great, really enjoyed it”. Dad replies “excellent news son, it’s not my thing but glad you had a good time”.
Daughter chimes in “yeah it was great but, you know, it was a bit weird because out of the 20 of us, I was the only girl”. To which the dad replies:
“Don’t worry. If you felt a bit weird about being the only girl there, that’s just because you don’t really like MTB enough. If you wanted to do it enough, it wouldn’t be weird for you being surrounded by only boys. Don’t take it as a bad thing though, I mean as a girl you’re statistically less likely than your brother to actually like it in the first place, just because you’re a girl, and far fewer girls like MTB than boys, so if you don’t want to go again that would put you in the normal range for girls. Actually, I was speaking to your friend Jenny’s parents; she’d asked about going but they both said it wasn’t really a sport for girls so in the end she didn’t sign up even though you said she really wanted to when she first found out about it. Guess she just didn’t want to do it that much after all. Thinking on it, it’s probably best if you didn’t take up MTB with your brother as your mum will hate you doing a boy sport, because you’re her little girl”

So yeah, boys and girls, both getting exactly the same opportunities. Except somehow, I bet they don’t seem like the same opportunities to both girls and boys

I’m sorry. I couldn’t see past the hot pants the girls were wearing…..

1. They are girls/kids?

2. They are just denim shorts

3. wtaf?

For the edification of alpin (and stevextc):

Hotpants

Jorts

Action jorts

Recommend having a head wobble or two.

And here’re some Dangle-pants for you to study:

I showed the vid to my year 9 tutor group and we talked a bit afterwards. About 10 boys ride to school, no girls. Major barrier to girls riding to school is skirts apparently. I wonder how many dismiss cycling for travel or recreation in the future as they don’t do it as kids. The girls are allowed to wear trousers to school but don’t want to. Seems they prefer to wear skirts than ride bikes. Only one or two girls ride bikes at all.

Just asked my 9yo daughter, she loves cycling to school, but rarely gets to do so. (By chance we did twice this week.)

She says she currently has no problems riding to school in skirt/dress but *if* she had to choose between cycling to school in trousers and wearing a skirt/dress she’d rather wear the skirt than cycle. Girls can wear trousers to her school, but in her class only one girl does.

I hadn’t forseen this – the high school we’d ideally choose for her is an easy cycle ride but a heck of a long walk. If she refuses to cycle it’s going to be a nightmare. 😱

With the risk of distracting into a skirt debate is the reason the girls want to wear skirts more social conditioning?
Are boys allowed to wear skirts and if they were would they and if not why not?

I also think there is a difference between riding a bike (going to school, going to shops, going to friends house) as a means of transport and cycling (going out and riding a bike solely for the enjoyment of cycling)
My mum used to ride a bike for transport but would never go out cycling.

Clothing choice has to be near 100pc social conditioning. Different cultures wear different clothes and trousers were only invented relatively recently, before that we all wore skirts/dresses (with different names). The root cause of each gender wanting to dress differently might be nature, of course.

But just because I know I’ve been conditioned to wear trousers doesn’t mean I’m going to start to wear kilts. Trousers might be too hot in the summer but personally, I find trousers quite practical. I imagine women feel the same way, they like their skirts/dresses and are happy to make the required compromises.

Viva la difference.

I also think there is a difference between riding a bike (going to school, going to shops, going to friends house) as a means of transport and cycling (going out and riding a bike solely for the enjoyment of cycling)
My mum used to ride a bike for transport but would never go out cycling.

I’m not sure there is a distinction and if there was I’d say cycling as transport has more merit than cycling purely for fun.

retromud

Stevextc – apologies, still typing away on a tiny phone here and don’t know how to quote properly but I’ll try to respond to those direct questions.

I’m going to try and number stuff (if you want to replay then you can use a number)?

First – I may have misinterpreted the previous posters references to middle aged white guys. I had been reading them as saying that middle aged white guys were a problem – in trying to resolve issues of gender bias (or any other exclusionary bias), because they are kind of a homogenous group, who don’t have the lived experience of anyone else to work out what would be required to successfully increase diversity. That was my own interpretation; it could have been that they were all referencing an organised white guy conspiracy that is deliberately trying to exclude women/minorities/anyone not a middle aged white guy.

I’m getting a bit beyond “middle aged” but …

(1a) because they are kind of a homogenous group, who don’t have the lived experience of anyone else (1b) to work out what would be required to successfully increase diversity

1a/ I personally (from my experience) don’t see how this translates to me. I spent over 1/2 my working life in other cultures and I think there is as much diversity within men or women as there is across it.

By way of analogy (and since we are on STW) take bike sizes.
In a specific population women tend to be shorter and shave shorter legs as a proportion of their height. (The latter was a bit of a shocker but measure them and that’s what you get or at least several actual studies found)

However the overlap is huge … and as a white male I’m tiny in comparison with the average height of a Dutch woman

OK so I didn’t choose that just because it’s STW but also because height is pretty easy and standardised to measure.

I don’t know the exact process for measuring height in the Dutch medical system but I’m fairly confident it doesn’t differ significantly enough from the UK or others to change the averages significantly, more over if I wanted to be even more accurate I could go and sample 1000 or 10000 and use a rigorously repeatable measurement method.

In terms of how men or women think about different things?
How exactly do you measure this and indeed has anyone quantitively measured it.
To use the Ontario creative writing example …
The author has an agenda and has selectively picked facts and data and ignored everything else.
(Exactly as was done to say why men don’t ride horses)

Where to even start…but the overwhelming difference I’d see between Ontario and the UK in terms of access to the outdoors is quite simply population density.

2

That was my own interpretation; it could have been that they were all referencing an organised white guy conspiracy that is deliberately trying to exclude women/minorities/anyone not a middle aged white guy.

Well depending who “they” are.
If you do get time then read from the start… see how those who don’t agree are just “cancelled”… complete refusal to engage other than name calling and “tou are not alloed an opinion” from the hardcore who’s agenda is “white male privilege” just like a flat earth discussion site…

I don’t know why your friend’s mother (is that the right relationship I’m referencing?) would conspire with you that she believes her daughter should give up outdoor pursuits as they are not suitable for girls.

I think you picked up on that incorrectly…
What I’m saying is as I’m frequently at kids DH events I get comments from other parents about their daughters. Much as this is biased in itself non of the Dad’s ever made the comments to me but mums do not infrequently… whereas my mate (son’s mates mother but equally my mate) doesn’t get them and a few times I’ve even had “what does she think she’s doing” when they don’t realise we are a group.

Equally, another mate with a son and daughter (I happen to be riding with Saturday coming) is separated and the mother has for as long as I remember been against the daughter doing what she thinks are male sports. The daughter has always been way keener… but she’s got to an age now that she’s less into the riding and more into socialising.

So straying from actual FACT into opinion … what do I think is happening?
I think that DH isn’t for everyone (gender not even an issue). If you want race you have to be prepared to spend a lot of time in hospital and rehab and these mothers are using this as an excuse why they don’t ride DH. (when they don’t have to)

To illustrate a different way, my son’s mother has an endless list of reasons we (I) have to pay for accommodation for HER summer beach holiday. She was brought up in the same house, parents as her sister.. who would be of the complete opposite opinion about why do we even need a tent.

My sons mother is at the same time both very protective of and hyper critical of her sister.
My son’s mother chooses not to earn what she could and I am expected to pick up the shortfall.
Before she was injured her sister announced she was going to quit her job (that she’s very successful at but hates) because it makes her unhappy and limits her hobbies of extreme sports (that her sister/son’s mother) say’s she has no business doing as a woman.

Again, this is ONLY my opinion … but I think her reasons are at least in part because she doesn’t want to have no excuse not to do the things her sister does.

So back to my earlier point… I think there is as much and perhaps even more pressure on women who want to do “male sports” from other women than men.

3/ (Big block but just quoting togather)

Imagine a father, a run of the mill average dad, watches the footie on the weekends, jogs to keep fit but isn’t an enthusiast, never been into cycling. His teenage twins have been offered an afternoon trial of MTB through the local schools cycling co-ordinator type person, all fully funded. The son arrives home afterwards, “hey dad, that was great, really enjoyed it”. Dad replies “excellent news son, it’s not my thing but glad you had a good time”.
Daughter chimes in “yeah it was great but, you know, it was a bit weird because out of the 20 of us, I was the only girl”. To which the dad replies:
“Don’t worry. If you felt a bit weird about being the only girl there, that’s just because you don’t really like MTB enough. If you wanted to do it enough, it wouldn’t be weird for you being surrounded by only boys. Don’t take it as a bad thing though, I mean as a girl you’re statistically less likely than your brother to actually like it in the first place, just because you’re a girl, and far fewer girls like MTB than boys, so if you don’t want to go again that would put you in the normal range for girls. Actually, I was speaking to your friend Jenny’s parents; she’d asked about going but they both said it wasn’t really a sport for girls so in the end she didn’t sign up even though you said she really wanted to when she first found out about it. Guess she just didn’t want to do it that much after all. Thinking on it, it’s probably best if you didn’t take up MTB with your brother as your mum will hate you doing a boy sport, because you’re her little girl”

Except that kids are just more likely to do something their parents do then as teenagers their mates.

In fact you actually hit on something …
Out of the many girls I know that ride I don’t know any who’s mums or dads are interested in football. Not like this is actually a discussion or topic but when we have been away weekends I can’t remember anyone saying “I need to get a phone signal/radio to check the footy”

If I was to speculate I’d suggest that perhaps the reason may have something to do with rejecting the cultural bias/expectations of sport in the first place.

OOB

Clothing choice has to be near 100pc social conditioning. Different cultures wear different clothes and trousers were only invented relatively recently, before that we all wore skirts/dresses (with different names). The root cause of each gender wanting to dress differently might be nature, of course.

Not quite … in fact trousers in many cultures were traditionally worn by women.
If we were to mention horse riding cultures then by men and women …

If you want a bit of a diversion google french bus drivers in nantes and swedish train drivers (with the word skirts in the search)

kerley

I also think there is a difference between riding a bike (going to school, going to shops, going to friends house) as a means of transport and cycling (going out and riding a bike solely for the enjoyment of cycling)
My mum used to ride a bike for transport but would never go out cycling.

For once on this thread I’d totally agree …. and hence my whole point about forcing people to do something WE think is fun with the expectation they find it fun or saying they would find it fun was it not for social conditioning.

p7eaven

1. They are girls/kids?

2. They are just denim shorts

3. wtaf?

So why the issue with Alpin not the girls or their parents?
(Or do you actually believe the thumbnail is a complete accident)

The issue I see is with you and Alpin. Why would the girl’s parents need to raise issue with their daughters wearing shorts on bikes?

The thumbnail I see is a denim sponsorship/tie-in. See the video channel.

They sell jorts, jeans and dungarees. If Jason McRoy up there had been a teen boy in that pic and (say) it was sponsored by Levis, would you and Alpin still feel the need to comment on his jean-shorts being ‘hot’ and distracting? Or would you have seen past his boyish legs and maybe focused on the bikey-fun?

So why the issue with Alpin not the girls or their parents?

Jesus shitting Christ, surely you are trolling? No one can be this ignorant can they. I mean you do post utter gibberish but surely even you can see what this says about you?