The Landed Gentry

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  • The Landed Gentry
  • Premier Icon brassneck
    Subscriber

    Envy from me.

    Mainly envy that my forefathers in the 1640s picked the wrong bloody side and condemned me to a life of work.

    deviant
    Member

    I’m open to the idea of somebody being opposed based on ideology but the acid test would be to look at ordinary people who have perhaps held these views and then won the lottery….i wonder how many of them will give the money away or donate it to charity when they die instead of hypocritically passing it on to their children?

    The thread title is “The Landed Gentry”. The Landed Gentry is a specific social class in much the same way as the monarchy is. Although they generally have much more political power.

    fasthaggis
    Member

    Did you watch last nights fasthaggis?

    I did binners,an interesting take on things.
    That’s the only one of the series that I have seen,so I will watch the
    first program tonight.
    I wish I had known about the other side of his life when I knew him in London .
    He was always good fun at the pub after some of the Beastway races,but it was mostly bike and motorbike chat.

    Premier Icon v8ninety
    Subscriber

    mrlebowski, by “dislike any system that allows a person to live off the backs of others purely by virtue of birthright” I meant; a traditional British social class, consisting of land owners who could live entirely off rental income.

    I suppose they will come across as nicer than the self made millionaire set, They would be quite laid back and comfortable in their situation, in comparison it must take a fairly specific personality type to aggressively aquire such large wealth over a short time. Rarely do omeletes get made without breaking eggs.

    wrecker – Member

    How? If you work hard and make good decisions all your life, would you not want your children to benefit when you die? If not, do you intend on leaving your house etc to the state or charity?

    Of course, and I admit to a bit of selfish hypocrisy in my post, I am human. however the remnants of basically a feudal society that are still going strong in this country are a long way from what you describe. Call me a lefty if you like, but it is the hugely disproportionate unearned and undeserved privilege that results in the inequality that I find distasteful.

    Lifer
    Member

    Everybody who doesn’t like the ‘new money’ people iz jus jelus.

    Premier Icon seven
    Subscriber

    I personally believe that a countries land should belong to the countries people, so nothing to be passed on to families.

    As for individual wealth I have no issue with how much someone gets paid, as long as the gap between the richest and the poorest is reducing in our society. Study after study has shown that social and economic inequality leads to a worse standard of living and life expectancy for all members of a society

    Graphs and facts

    druidh
    Member

    We are obviously struggling with definitions here. Is everyone who inherits land one of the “gentry”? If not, what other criteria do we need to consider?

    Premier Icon v8ninety
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    seven +1

    (Eight? 😉 )

    Druidh, the wiki definition seems reasonable. wikiwikwarp

    druidh
    Member

    seven – Member
    I personally believe that a countries land should belong to the countries people, so nothing to be passed on to families.

    Including the land that my house is built on?

    wrecker
    Member

    I personally believe that a countries land should belong to the countries people, so nothing to be passed on to families.

    Too late.

    enfht
    Member

    Typically on STW there are the bitter, inverted snobs but lets not forget the far-left marxists who pretend they’re main stream. cough.

    Premier Icon v8ninety
    Subscriber

    Typically on STW there are the bitter, inverted snobs but lets not forget the far-left marxists who pretend they’re main stream. cough.

    Not to mention the ‘I’m alright jack’ Toryboys who think that the poor, the disenfranchised and the exploited should have ‘bally well worked harder then’…

    MSP
    Member

    I dislike the landed gentry for the way they sneer at my cheap shotguns.

    Premier Icon seven
    Subscriber

    druidh – Member

    Including the land that my house is built on?

    Leasehold or Freehold – not everybody owns the land that the house they own is on, so there is clearly a working model that just needs some tuning 🙂

    wrecker – Member

    Too late.

    For what?

    Junkyard
    Member

    I struggle with long sentences

    are we really asking why it is unfair that people inherit land, titles and privledge now mdue to an accident of birth
    We think the Queen earned it, The Duke of Westminster all the heridtary peers etc

    I beleive in a meritocracy and this is not one

    To quote Billy Bragg

    By theft and murder they took the land
    Now everywhere the laws spring up at their command

    wrecker
    Member

    For what?

    Land is already owned. It’ll never belong to the state.

    enfht
    Member

    To quote Billy Bragg

    pmsl 😆

    mrmo
    Member

    If it’s been legally handed to them as their inheritance, then what’s unjust about it?

    define legal, have a read up on the enclosure acts, and the highland clearances and then talk to me about what is legal and what is moral. Remember that the laws are constructed by those in power often to their benefit.

    The current owners may have legal claim but the manner of acquisition was far from morally justifiable in a huge number of cases.

    JY – so meritocracy passes the “accident of birth test?”

    Junkyard – Member
    are we really asking why it is unfair that people inherit land, titles and privledge now mdue to an accident of birth…I beleive in a meritocracy and this is not one

    Chapter 17 for an interest take on this!

    Kit
    Member

    Interesting that some equate wealth with land ownership. This is often not the case. I would bet that many on here have a higher disposable income than my dad (inherited owner of 1,100 acres), or indeed any of the rest of my family.

    And to those who believe that these ‘stolen’ lands should be given back, consider the following: who do they go to? What will they be used for? Who decides this? How will they be protected for future generations? Who pays for the upkeep and how? How is access controlled, by whom, and who pays for this? etc etc…

    Premier Icon binners
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    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOOTKA0aGI0[/video]

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    And to those who believe that these ‘stolen’ lands should be given back, consider the following: who do they go to? What will they be used for? Who decides this?

    I know someone who fits the bill!!!

    What could possibly go wrong! 😀

    mrmo
    Member

    And to those who believe that these ‘stolen’ lands should be given back, consider the following: who do they go to? What will they be used for? Who decides this? How will they be protected for future generations? Who pays for the upkeep and how? How is access controlled, by whom, and who pays for this? etc etc…

    To a limited extent i can see where you are coming from, but who is farming the land the tenant or the landowner, who should have control of the land? why should access be controlled in most situations? If you look at scotland or scandinavia access is far more easily achieved than in England. What are we protecting for future generations? what is the point of the countryside? farming, recreation, private ownership, etc.

    Can land be given back to the original owners, doubtful as many family lines will have died out, be untraceable.

    I am of the opinion that the UK and its planning system is unfit for purpose which is causing this country a lot of issues.

    Kit
    Member

    Can land be given back to the original owners

    Even if you could, their share of the land may cost more to keep/run/provide access to than the income it generates. The owner might then (reasonably) be expected to sell it to a neighbor to pay debts. It’s not hard to imagine this escalating with time, leaving you back where you started, with a single owner/family of large areas of land. Unless the state controlled land ownership entirely (as binners is hinting at) then opportunity, greed, market forces, whatever will ensure that equally divided land becomes unequally owned!

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Technically, doesn’t God own it all?

    wrecker
    Member

    Unless the state controlled land ownership entirely

    A greedy Chancellor would only sell it to those who could afford it anyway!

    I taught some landed gentry agriculture at Uni, horrible obectionable little ****. Having said that I’m sure others are very nice.

    Not read it all but IME it varies tremendously from the benign / paternalistic owner to the utter shit.

    fortunately we have mechanisms to force buyouts in Scotland so the shits can be forced to sell under some circumstances. Community buyouts have been a huge success as have charitable / conservation organisations owning states.

    enfht – Member

    Typically on STW there are the bitter, inverted snobs but lets not forget the far-left marxists who pretend they’re main stream. cough.

    Far left maxists? On STW? The nearest we have is dear old ernie and is is by no means far left. A fairly moderate maxist 🙂

    mikewsmith
    Member

    I like the idea of all land going into the communal pot after death. How long do you lot want for your families to move out? 5-10 mins ok?

    Usual crap about take it all of them but not us.

    Nice stats earlier though turns out it’s the MOD and FC that own the most. With the much loed C of E coming in after that. Perhaps we could try out the model on these first. About 1/10th Acre each?

    mrmo
    Member

    To be honest i don’t really care about the landed gentry, i would rather the system allows anyone to do pretty much anything they see fit with a plot of land they own, a virtual removal of planning laws, and allowed open access to all land where no reason can be showed for not allowing it.

    mikewsmith
    Member

    i would rather the system allows anyone to do pretty much anything they see fit with a plot of land they own, a virtual removal of planning laws, and allowed open access to all land where no reason can be showed for not allowing it.

    Blimey!!

    Planning laws should be there to prevent complete monstrosities and unsafe buildings being erected. Along with trying to keep development on plan. Want a sewage works in the middle of a housing estate? What about a 24hr sawmill?

    Access to all land? I assume you mean farm land and not gardens and industrial units? Just what farming needs another bunch of idiots popping up from behind every hedgerow and wall. Some of this might just be for your safety!!

    mrmo
    Member

    Planning laws should be there to prevent complete monstrosities and unsafe buildings being erected. Along with trying to keep development on plan. Want a sewage works in the middle of a housing estate? What about a 24hr sawmill?

    No, most of the problems in this country with land prices are the result of stupid planning rules, As for preventing monstrosities define one, i would say most new build housing estates fall into that category? IF you want to build a saw mill, where is it going to be? near forestry, why force it to be built on an industrial estate nowhere near the logging?

    Want a sewage works in the middle of a housing estate

    , ever heard of combined heat and power? if you generate waste then use it.

    Access to all land? I assume you mean farm land and not gardens and industrial units? Just what farming needs another bunch of idiots popping up from behind every hedgerow and wall. Some of this might just be for your safety!!

    Read the whole quote, where no reason can be shown for access being banned. If there is a genuine safety concern, farm machinery, guns, quarry fine, but owning a patch of woodland and deciding to keep people out just because you can, then sorry no.

    mikewsmith
    Member

    Read the whole quote, where no reason can be shown for access being banned. If there is a genuine safety concern, farm machinery, guns, quarry fine, but owning a patch of woodland and deciding to keep people out just because you can, then sorry no.

    I did I just don’t come from the far end of this where you are.

    People (ie general public) have a great time dropping litter pulling things up and taking them home and a great deal of other bad habbits. Why should peoples workplaces and property be opened up to everyone? Can I have a picnic on your garden?

    Why are woodlands so special?

    Why does the concept of ownership get as far as houses/sheds etc but stop there?

    If you want to go roam in some woods go buy some! http://www.woods4sale.co.uk/

    yunki
    Member

    A rambler was stopped by a landowner from crossing his land. The rambler asked “How come it’s your land, then?”

    The landowner said: “It’s mine because my ancestors fought for it.”

    “OK”, said the rambler, “take off your coat and I’ll fight you for it now”…

    this..

    I guess that what may have started out as a teen jealousy has matured over the years into a sense of injustice that has spawned a vehement righteous indignation..

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