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With permission from Mrs Slim to take the plunge on a car that we can finally feel happy to own, I have the potential to spend circa 8k on a roomy family car that will double as a weekend bike lugging machine.
Ideally no more than 4 or 5 years old, economical as possible (1.9TD VAG previously owned & enjoyed).
A few toys and creature comforts would be appreciated, as would something easy on the eye.
The perfect car in my eyes would be able to swallow at least one bike in the boot with minimal fuss, as i'd like to avoid using roof bars/racks if possible.
Reliability and running costs are an important consideration.
After a bit of research my shortlist is as follows (all turbo diesel):
Passat Estate
Mondeo Estate
Mazda 6 Estate
Avensis Estate
Octavia Estate
VW Touran
Other 'possibles':
Fiat Multipla
Golf Estate
Focus Estate
Corolla Verso
We visited a VW dealership today and sat in a brand new Passat Estate and I was very impressed with the quality feel throughout, and the toys /cubby holes etc. If previous models were as well fitted as this then its a strong contender. A quick browse looks as though i could get something like an 07/08 plate with around 50k-60k on the clock in a fairly good spec.
Is the Octavia better all round? (ive read that the boot is much more roomy than a Passat), Is the superb folding rear seat on a Mazda6 a deal sealer?
Any other obvious contenders ive missed?
Drove a zafira today, it was a surprisingly decent drive, prefered it to my mates Octavia estate, just felt more comfy, and was massive inside.
Is the boot in the Passat better than it used to be? Ours was all pinched in.
Mondeo is incomprehensibly vast in the back, you could park a Mondeo in it.
I have, or my wife has.... a 56 plate VW Passat. 2.0. Absolutely brilliant car, drives very well and has a very good sized boot. Two kids plus extra bagadge in their foot wells if need be. Had a few VWs over the years and can't say a bad word about them.
For what its worth I drive a RAV4 (06 plate), there is less length to the car so not so much space in the back seats and boot, but interestingly it eats my Orange Five in one. The Passat insists I take the front wheel off.
Of the two though the Passat is the better family car, drives better as well. Just be prepared to wince first time you do a complete tank fill. 70 litres costs a lot 😯 you do get around 600 miles out of it though.
I need to check out a Mondeo, ive heard good things about them, just a little concerned about reliability of Ford's in general once they hit round 80k, ive heard of niggles and know people that have needed to throw money at them at this point.
I'll also look at the Zafira, I like the Meriva too. I've counted Vauxhalls out in the past mainly as I hate their indicator system! 🙂
Is the boot in the Passat better than it used to be? Ours was all pinched in.
apparently not, and although a good size, it doesnt look vast and seems pinched in like you mention
Mondeo is incomprehensibly vast in the back, you could park a Mondeo in it.
sounds great, does it take a bike in one?
I've read on numerous occasions that the Octavia is bigger in the boot though
FWIW, I've had 4 folk and 4 bikes (with gear) in a Multipla. Unlike most other cars, the rear seats are completely removable, which means you get a lot more internal space when you don't need them.
sounds great, does it take a bike in one?
easily
BUT
57 plate onward ford mondeos are really, really iffy with regards to the build quality and auto electrics. we've had multiple faults on all the company fleet cars, ranging from random "just won't start" through to complete replacement of dash boards and two with very dangerous intermittent faults to the point where I have refused to accept mine back as it's just not safe.
older versions are more reliable but still have electrical gremlins
All those are shite.
Honda Accord Estate is where its at.
druidh - ill take a closer look at a Multipla, im also a fan of FIAT multijet diesel engine
tazzymtb - thanks for the info, thats exactly what I suspected with Ford in general. Makes me very wary of the Mondeo
slimjim78 - Membersounds great, does it take a bike in one?
You could fit a few bikes in the other mondeo you've parked in the boot, as long as there's not a mondeo in that one as well.
So easy... Vw t5 van. Window, carpet and day convrt yourself. Perfect vehicle for your initial question, and you will probably add value.
Holden Commodore VT Wagon. Amazing amount of room. can get a bike in the back with the wheels on!
Anyone here use a Mitsubishi L200?..
bigrich - Membercan get a bike in the back with the wheels on!
Assuming that's with the back seats down, you can do that with a Focus. TBH I'd be pretty disappointed in any decent-sized estate that can't do this
(Avensis can't incidentally... Nice enough car but the boot space is amazingly small, it's like an anti-tardis. Doesn't have a flat boot-edge either IIRC which should be mandatory on estates, once you've had one everything else is obviously rubbish)
My choice will be ...
1. Toyota Avensis estate
2. Skoda Octavia/Superb estate
3. VW Passat estate
4. Corolla Verso
5. VW Golf estate
6. Mazda 6 estate
Bin the rest ...
Northwind, I totally agree and should state for clarity:
im after an estate that'll take a bike in the boot without the rear seat having to lay flat.
Main reason is child seats in the back which are a pain to constantly remove and replace when needing to chuck the bike in for a couple of hours.
I also agree that estates should really have a flat loading area with the hatch up, something the Avensis, (and Passat to some degree) appear to fall short of.
Silly thing but if you want to lug with it have you checked the rear seats fold flat? I'm replacing mine and so many of my shortlist dont have fold flat rear seats!
Mondeo does I know, passat and focus on that list don't quite fold flat - if you put bikes in like me handlebars down to maximise space it means the front forks rub on the headlining on some.
Check this site for some reviews but try not to trust it 100% ... 😀
[url= http://www.carbuzz.co.uk/car-reviews/Skoda/Superb-Estate ]Some estate car reviews ... [/url]
slimjim78 - Memberim after an estate that'll take a bike in the boot without the rear seat having to lay flat.
Makes sense... TBH I'd be surprised if anything in your list can't manage that but it'll take various degrees of hassle I'm sure.
i'd settle for one that accepts a bike (or two) with front wheel removed, or, with 60/40 split rear seats so our child seat can remain in place.
I tend to whip out the outside seat on our touran, the bike goes in standing up leaving loads of boot room and the child seat can remain in place.
Honda Accord Tourer
We have an 06 Zafira. Excellent motor, very roomy and 7 seats too. The folding rear seats are brilliant, loads of combo's. And it will fit 2 bikes easy
Mazda 5?
I have a Premacy diesel, which predated it. It swallows a 29er whole, no bother. You can fit a bike in the boot space with the seats still up. Rear seats are divided into 3 and can be folded flat or removed. Reliability and fuel frugality both pretty good. Just not very pretty.
The 5 is not quite as fugly as a lot of MPV type cars, though.
How about a [url= http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/citroen/berlingo-multispace/estate-2008/ ]Berlingo Multispace[/url] or [url= http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/peugeot/partner-tepee/estate-2008/ ]Partner Teepee[/url] with the 1.6hdi?
We've been looking at one for ourselves and considering the cars overall size, they're huge inside.
The rear seats fold up or can come out completely and they have a lot of headroom.
I measured the one we looked at and the load width even at it's narrowest is around 120 cm's, whilst the load length is approx 99 cm's with all the rear seats in place and then around 160 cm's with the rear seats removed.
The Berlingo Multispace and Partner Teepee also has up to 3000 litres of luggage space compared to 1745 litres of a Mondeo estate.
The fuel economy seems pretty good as well at over 50mpg's.
Seat Altea XL..lots of room and comes with the standard 1.9TD engine that works.
Citroen Berlingo Multispace. 'kin Rad....
2 kids, 2 adults, 4 bikes and accoutrements....
I've heard far too many horror stories about the 05-11 Passat to ever go near one.
[url= http://www2.autotrader.co.uk/search/used/cars/citroen/berlingo_multispace/postcode/gu27xh/radius/1501/price-to/8000/maximum-mileage/up_to_20000_miles/page/1/sort/locasc ]Here[/url] are a few Berlingo's to give you an idea on prices etc.
ive just had the same dilema and ended up going for a touran.
the reasons are that :-
* its more versatile than a passat.
* the middle row of seats is all seperate and can move forward or backwards to give a bigger or smaller boot.
* the boot is a better shape than the passat in that you do not get wheel arches eating into the space.
* can also be a 7 seater.
* doesnt have the electronic parking brake.
* seem to hold their value better than a passat
Ive just paid £9000 for a 57 plate vw touran 2.0 tdi sport, 1 owner, full history and 55k on the clock.
Ive been looking for ages and you can still find 55 plat cars going for £7500 plus.
I drive the sports version of the Zafira at work and its easily one of the crappiest cars I've used. Admittedly it's a police car and gets slightly more robust use than a family run about. But it's slow, the turning circle is appalling, the steering is dead, it's quite slow (especially compared to the 330d I also use regularly), the ride is very harsh and it gets upset mid corner by the slightest bump.
If it was my money I'd be looking at the Mazda estate, Mondeo or Octavia. The Octavia is slightly smaller seating wise but still has a big boot. I've got the new shape VRS and it's lovely.
octavia has less rear leg room than a passat.
passat has less rear leg room than a mondeo.
I looked at a 60 plate top of the range mondeo demonstrater at a dealers. only had 6k on the clock and it was starting to look tatty inside already !!
You can get a late previous shape Mondeo ST TDCI easily within budget, low miles and good nick.
Brilliant cars. Powerful and pretty economical. Loads of toys even compared to newer cars. Recaro seated cars are worth tracking down, they were option extras on the Diesel ST.
i'd settle for one that accepts a bike (or two) with front wheel removed, or, with 60/40 split rear seats so our child seat can remain in place.
Peugeot 407 SW is what I have, it does the above and has a flat load area, and is a pug, which means that although everything ancillary will stop working in a comedy french fashion the mechanical bits will work forever.
I just can't get my head round the hideous door cards on the old shape Mondeo- just look horrid.
Guess you'll probably hear horror stories about any car, at some point things will wear whatever you have! For what its worth, I have a Mondeo on a 57 plate (last of the old shape so go a lot nmore/ lower millage for my money!) had it for a year now and hasn't skipped a beat at all.
On the bike side, this weekend I had three whole bikes in the back and two on the roof and still fitted three passangers in (just!) I've been really impressed with it so far!
You can get a late previous shape Mondeo ST TDCI easily within budget, low miles and good nick.
Brilliant cars. Powerful and pretty economical. Loads of toys even compared to newer cars. Recaro seated cars are worth tracking down, they were option extras on the Diesel ST.
This is pretty much what I did!
splendid advice guys, thanks. I have plenty of new options to chew over.
I'm going to write off the Passat as ive now also heard too many negative comments.
Ill also check out the Touran a bit closer, I sat in one at VW dealership (brand new) and really liked the comfort, but wasnt totally convinced with the boot, but hearing about the versatile middle seat arrangement is good news.
I'm also keen to at least try out a Berlingo for size, only real sticking point is that for the money I half expected a bit of a quality feel, and although cars like Berlingo's are extremely versatile, I cant help but feel like im sitting in a chunky plastic tonka toy. I can get over it, but not sure the wife will feel the same!
Despite a few naysayers, I think the previous shape Mondeo is still a strong contender.
But then im a fan of anything Peugeot and diesel...why is this such a dificult decision!?!
Does anyone have good reasons as to not consider an L200? Asides from losing around 10mpg (which may well be a dealbreaker) they look to cover all bases and then some.
Ive heard the l200 isnt that good on fuel and the tax is quite high?
seriously have a look at a touran !!! ive just spent the past 2 months going over this and I just couldnt find a reason not to buy one.
boot on passat is around 450 litres
boot on touran is 695 litres
We have a "V" reg Octavia estate (1.9 TDi, 150,000 miles) and an 06 Mondeo estate (2.0 TDCi, 60,000 miles). Both are great cars and can take a bike in the boot without putting any seats down. I slightly prefer the Mondeo as it's a Ghia and is all nice and comfy inside, plus the flat loading area is great for sitting in at the end of a day while you have a brew! Octavia gives better mileage on country roads and is easier around town to park and stuff. I think a mountain biker would be happy with either of those two.
slimjim78 - MemberI'm also keen to at least try out a Berlingo for size, only real sticking point is that for the money I half expected a bit of a quality feel, and although cars like Berlingo's are extremely versatile, I cant help but feel like im sitting in a chunky plastic tonka toy. I can get over it, but not sure the wife will feel the same!
One of the Berlingo's main selling points to me is that it's very utilitarian and I wouldn't worry too much about damaging or getting dirt on a posh interior.
I bought an '05 plate Mazda6 estate with 54k on it. It's petrol though (I gather the diesels can have DPF issues - I wanted petrol anyway). I've put about 3k on it in the last few weeks, most of it with loads of stuff and kids in, and I'm really pleased with it. It's a bit thirsty, but other than that it's a nice drive, big, and seems really well built. Good folding seats too (including 60/40 split).
This Berlingo is almost... funky? I quite like.
I'm going to write off the Passat as ive now also heard too many negative comments.
Look at the sheer number of Passat taxis - if they were hideously unreliable and expensive to run, you'd not see that. Mondeos do, from my personal expereince, start to look tatty quite quickly, but like most cars, will go forever if well maintained.
Does anyone have good reasons as to not consider an L200? Asides from losing around 10mpg (which may well be a dealbreaker) they look to cover all bases and then some.
They're remarkably unrefined to drive, at least compared to any of the others on your list. The fact that they look awful may be the least of your concerns, but Mrs Slim may see it differently. They're also less safe (fewer airbags etc), make you look like a builder (not a problem for you, perhaps, but again, does Mrs Slim like the look) and are a pain to park. Uncomfortable seats on a long run and lots of noise, plus limited rear legroom (you're going for the crewcab version, I assume) make it a non-starter for most people.
[i]Anyone here use a Mitsubishi L200?.. [/i]
I also looked at a double-cab a few years ago, no good - due to:
- drives like a commercial
- little space inside, especially that is secure
- bikes on the outside, just like having them on a rack as I do now
- poor economy vs performance
- look like a chav
etc, etc
If I was after a vehicle where I wanted to put the bikes inside (which tbh I wouldn't as I use a tow-bar rack), and move the family around it'd be a smaller MPV - Zafira, S-Max etc.
If I was looking for something reliable and spacious I'd get a Honda Accord estate.
Why not a Toyota Previa though?
slimjim78 - Member
> http://www2.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201151436705605/sort/locasc/usedcars/price-to/8000/maximum-mileage/up_to_20000_miles/model/berlingo_multispace/make/citroen/page/1/postcode/gu27xh/radius/1501?logcode=pThis Berlingo is almost... funky? I quite like.
I think they're pretty cool, especially the XTR model as in your link.
especially the [b]XTR[/b] model as in your link
but im more of a SRAM man.. 🙂
seriously though, it looks extremely practical. Just a shame they have such weedy BHP. A nice 120/130bhp diesel would be fun.
Off to look at Accord..
If my mighty Puma fails its MOT in a few weeks, on my shopping list for a new family/biking car is:
Subaru Impreza sportswagon
Volvo V70
slimjim78 - Memberespecially the XTR model as in your link
but im more of a SRAM man..
seriously though, it looks extremely practical. Just a shame they have such weedy BHP. A nice 120/130bhp diesel would be fun.
Off to look at Accord..
They do make a 110 XTR, but they seem to be rare.
110XTR sounds good. I love the 'modutop' option, loads of extra cubby holes in the roof and panoramic glass.
I'm going to view one of these.
Imprezza Wagon? Seriously nice, I would love one. Need my own personal oil reserves to fund the petrol costs though.
slimjim78 - Member
110XTR sounds good. I love the 'modutop' option, loads of extra cubby holes in the roof and panoramic glass.
I'm going to view one of these.Imprezza Wagon? Seriously nice, I would love one. Need my own personal oil reserves to fund the petrol costs though.
If you go for the modutop, you lose a lot of the load height. I looked at a modutop and a standard version and reckon the standard would be better for carrying bikes etc.
The chap at Citroen I spoke to said that the 110 had a lot more poke than the 90. The 110 is also the most economical model with a combined mpg of 53.3
Have had my Accord Tourer since new in Jan 05 and it has been a cracker. Go for a later model (your budget will allow it) and get the 6 speed box with loads of extras.
Ford S-Max?
Is the Accord as luxurious as it looks? ie, comfort and ride?
Ford S-Max will be investigated, colleague is insisting that a Galaxy would be better in terms of the extra space on occasion
I'd go for an Accord. You just can't go wrong with a Honda or even a CRV if you can stand something a little more thirsty.
We use taxi's a lot at work and it's a real mix of motors. Of all the ones you've mentioned so far the car I rate the most (albeit only as a back seat passenger) is the Accord. Really well screwed together, still feels tight even on an '04 plate. OK, any car can turn out to be a pup but Honda's reputation for reliability is legendary. Obviously not as outright practical as a Touran or Berlingo but certainly more comfortable and they just seem to age really well, just need to see if that boot'll swallow up your pride and joy... 😉
What about getting a Jap import? Something like a Toyota Previa/Estima, Nissan El Grand etc. A friend is importing one himself (saving a lot over buying one pre-imported apparently). You get all sorts of toys you don't get on Euro cars (remote control doors for example) you can get them in 4wd and hybrid too.
Personally I'd much rather get an MPV type thing rather than an estate, you may lose a bit on drive-ability but you get a lot more space, practicality and higher driving position.
I looked at (new shape) Berlingo when we recently changed cars, really great cars, may have bought one but the 110 XTR model which we saw smelled like an ashtray, we came back looked at it again, it had sold in the interim at a big discount and now smelled as fresh as any nearly new car full of chemicals could.
Does driving pleasure come into the equation? I seem to be forever 'bigging up' Mondeos, but they really do drive much better than any of the aforementioned cars. I've had two previous shaped 130BHP ones and I've currently got an '11 163BHP one. the previous ones never missed a beat over big mileages, this one has done 38,000 in 10 months and has had a small issue with warning lights. That's it. I test drove all sorts when I got this one and the only one that was better to drive (IMHO) was a 3 series touring. My previous two company cars were tourings and they do drive beautifully and are very economical. However, the Ford is vast inside whereas the BMWs are quite small.
Zafire, great for bike duty.
Also had 3 adults, 2 kids, 3 snowboards, and 3 pairs of skis + luggage in it last ski trip (we do have a roofbox, but still)......
Jap imports do interest me, particularly the daft looking ones, but the one time I searched for insurance quotes for one I was stunned to see how high the premiums were. I just cant be arsed to search around for specialists etc, it seems to me that costs go up across the board, registering, insuring, parts etc.
Quality of drive is important for me but TBH, ive had some fun cars in the past and now tend to get used to whatever im driving so as long as it pulls well enough at low speed, im happy.
The Mondeo certainly appeals to me for space/drive/economy reasons, but the electrical gremlins I keep reading of are a little concerning.
did the picture of mine sway you renton? 🙂
just received Mrs Slim's verdict on the Berlingo ''it’s U. G. L. Y and has no alibi''
although she didnt say No...
we're going through the same decision as you at the moment
me and mrs lanky are looking at quashqai (slow, bad reliability in theory- but good space, nice drive), astra estate (had one before as a work car and loved it), some sort of jap 4x4 and all the usual you listed
I really like the position, space etc of the berlingo type but they really aren't cool are they!? We're just about to turn 30, no kids, both get well paid, etc and all our mates are getting nice sporty cars (TT, MX5, Carrera, Z5 etc) before they get to the kids stage and have to give them up. We seem to be skipping this and just getting a family car to cart bikes in!
we just got a s-max. it's amazing. and not much different to a galaxy space-wise, while being better at being a "car" not a "taxi".
Lanky - your friends are pi$$ing money up the wall whilst you are making informed decisions, good on you! Besides, nearly every car gets boring after the 6 month newbie novelty factor wears off. Thats when economy/reliability/depreciation really comes to the fore.
Flatboy - tell me more about your s-max, im tempted to take a look at one as im starting to think that the more room I can get, the better.
We have one two year old child now and are planning another within the next 24 months, plus a possible dog - so I car we can grow into other than grow out of is possibly the most sensible thing I could buy.
5 Series estate?
Have a VERY good look at the Caddy Maxi-life - up to 7 seats, VW engine, 50+mpg and a huge load space!
Of the cars - Touran DSG or Corrola Verso with the glass roof.
Berlingo
[img] 
[/img]
🙂
well we only got it on friday eve so not a longterm report as yet, but it's ace so far. got the 2.0TDI 165 horsepower. averaging 35mpg so far and only used it in London city driving. really nice to drive, definitely feels bigger than the focus we had, as it would, but handles really well, tons of space throughout for passengers and huge amount of boot space.
lots of nice features, love it so far!
Remember a L200 is a pick up truck, tax and fuel not great and general driving a chore, I've used a friends and as an everyday car appeal wears thin pretty quickly.
Passat very disappointing to own with lots of electrical niggles on the 2 diesels I've had.
More recently I've had an S Max Diesel from new and done 80k miles in it in 18 months. THE best family and biking car for me no question.
40mpg, seats 7,handy when grandparents come to visit, 5 up and loads of boot space. 4 up we took 3 bikes and camping gear and did Glastonbury and the car revelled in it.Quickclear screen is a joy on a cold day and real world comforts,great visibility and toys pretty unbeatable for money.Car drives like a car, handles well and is pretty quick on b roads in the lakes & n wales- visibility helps.
Drove it too Zermatt last March and we did the journey almost non stop,14 hours, 4 up with skis and all luggage, averaged 48mpg and arrived fresh and ready to ski!
Rear trim in boot needs care but the rest of car is very tough and has survived lots of youngsters and all of their crap.
Budget wise I'd have thought a 1.8 or 2.0 diesel zetec should drop into your price range by now with realistic mileages.
Come from a Mondeo st which I piled 160k miles on and loved it apart from several EGR valves it was fine. Gone to Accord tourer having problems with brakes and speakers. Nicely put together but no where near as load accommodating as the Mondeo. May well go for the 2.2 Mondy soon.
Mondeo was our winner on this debate 4 years ago. 65k later and I can't conceive of changing it even though we could afford something newer and german. Just had a bill for dmf and clutch at 103k and i didnt even mindthat much!
As for L200 i would avoid. Ultimately its a commercial vehicle and not a car.
Oh and if you don't do 15000+ miles a year consider a petrol one. Our petrol mondeo hatch is much lighter and nicer to drive than the diesel estate although it lacks the mid range shove. Better round town too, clutch is lighter and our petrol hatch averages 33mpg on mostly urban and sub 20 mile trips and 35 on a run. 04 diesel est gets about 45 on 40mile round trip commute plus longervruns
your mondeo's a lot better than our focus was, then - we had a 2.0 petrol and were doing well to get more than about 23 round town and 30 on motorway driving!
Seat Altea XL..lots of room and comes with the standard 1.9TD engine that works.
Basically just a facelifted B6 Audi A4. No complaints from here, the A4 is nice and grippy, decent engine, well built and solid on the road.
well, despite my best efforts to convince Mrs Slim that material desires are shallow and functionality should win over all, the Berlingo is a certain no go im afraid.
02 Rav4 192000 miles from new. Legen-wait for it-dairy! Can't beat Japanese reliability can you?
Never needed nuffink doing. Won't die no matter how bored of looking at it's dashboard I get.
Remove 1 seat and it takes 3 riders and their bikes on the inside. The newer ones seem less agricultural and I'm not so sure they are as versatile though.