So when they gave some answers of how to make the changes and how to get the rest of the world to join in, I’ll listen. Until then they are simply a protest group looking for their time in the spotlight.

So just do nothing. Sorted.

DrJ

@DrJ
But untill they tell us “how” changes can be made their doing nothing as well. We all know the problem.

if we planted millions of trees, like every possible place,, would that be enough?

It’s the start of a process, they’re pushing for governments to start taking immediate action, they’re not proposing a single ‘fix’ to implement tomorrow, and they’re not going to be the ones that have all the answers, they’re pushing for us to start looking for those solutions, and start acting where we can. Right now not enough is being done.

It’s not about having all the answers, it’s about action over inaction.

This. Or maybe the Wright brothers should have waited till they’d got a 747 ready to fly …

But untill they tell us “how” changes can be made their doing nothing as well. We all know the problem.

It’s not their job to tell us how.

They’re campaigning to get governments to take action and act on the advice of scientists and experts.

It’s right here on their website

The ‘how’ comes from a mix of science, economic and policy change, their aim is to get the governments to start acting on advice and genuinely look into solutions. They’re not trying give a checklist for the man in the street to single-handedly try and reverse the impact of global industry, they’re pushing to get government to change policy and actions on a global scale.

However, if you personally want to change what you do and lessen your impact on the environment there is a wealth of information online, there’s no excuse for remaining ignorant in this day and age. If you want someone to spoon-feed you then I doubt your heart is in it anyway, but even if you don’t personally want to do anything, you should still want our government to.

Whilst I support the general principles behind Extinction Rebellion, sometimes wonder why they don’t publicize some of the matters raised here:

Why isn’t there tax on aviation (or shipping) fuel?

The point is that we are doing the changes that they are advocating, we are moving to a carbon neutral society. It is in law for 2050. The Government has declared a climate emergency.

But to move the date to 2025 is not achievable. As such it drives behaviour as ‘why bother’ by large chunks of the population. The impact of meeting the 2025 date is no gas central heating, most cars and lorries off the roads, lack of power when the renewables are not able to provide power. To achieve the goals requires massive infrastructure investment, which happening (see wind farms, nuclear power stations, electric car charging points, house insulation) combined with the policies to get rid of emissions (see banning the sale of fossil fuels) but none of it can be done in the timescales.

Individuals can do their best to reduce their carbon footprint, eating less meat, travelling less, reuse, recycle, etc. If we all do this then then our impact is likely to be very small, in a global point of view.

The questions is HOW do we accelerate the process – investment takes time, changing society behaviour takes time (e.g. it too 30 years to change the perception of drink driving and this is a far, far bigger change). For XR to be effective is needs to get the majority of the public to be involved – and blocking parts of London is not going to do that.

Remember we have also based hitting the 2050 timescales by assuming the technology will have developed by time, and R&D takes time. We can ‘fix’ the problem by planting billions of trees across the globe, but that does not address the fundamental issue of our carbon footprint.

I would have more respect if they campaigned out side the embassies of those counties which are doing very little (USA, China & India). Gluing yourself to the doors of the Department of Transport is just pointless.

We could learn so much from Brexit

Lets just “get it done”

So buy a bigger car drive it around needlessly leave the lights and heating on with the windows open and go on as many forrin holidays as possible.

We don’t deserve this jewel of a planet and the sooner it kills us the better.

if we planted millions of trees, like every possible place,, would that be enough?

No.

I’m not about to join but they have my sympathy and support.

I watched an hour long documentary on the changes due to climatic change in Germany on SWR last night. The star of the show was a VW T6 which was shown turning up at every site visited and was used for the presentations and some interviews. I cringed.

I would have more respect if they campaigned out side the embassies of those counties which are doing very little (USA, China & India). Gluing yourself to the doors of the Department of Transport is just pointless.

In simple terms, that makes sense… but lets not forget, the UK has a ‘special relationship’ with the US and like many other markets the world over, uses China as a cheap manufacturing base, so not only are many of the emissions originating in China due to consumers in more privileged countries, but also, the impact of transporting those goods is down to demand.

What’s more London is the centre of the Global Financial Industry (individually speaking, it has been over taken by New York with all the uncertainty surrounding Brexit, however, that fails to take into account the full impact of London’s offshore network of tax havens), so is key to much of the global industrial activity jeopardizing the planet.

That also means the City of London has a vast amount of leverage, if they felt inclined to use it…

I would have more respect if they campaigned out side the embassies of those counties which are doing very little (USA, China & India)

pure whataboutery.  Yes these countries are doing very little but that is still zero excuse for not doing the maximum that we can.  When the world ends up **** there is no point saying “well I didn’t because they didn’t”.  Everyone needs to be playing a part and there is no need to wait for anyone else to start first

Up to £400 a week for doing yoga on a bridge?

Where do I sign up?

Here:
https://rebellion.earth/act-now/join-us/

But, you won’t of course. You’ll do nothing and moan about those doing something

Excellent

This tree planting solution rips my knitting. Sure it’s a good idea – also improves the natural environment and can help alter river catchment response to precipitation so that the flood response is attenuated. But it affects short not long cycle carbon dioxide concentations. It’s green-washing but with tangible benefits that marketeers will magnify x1000.

Ranting this eve because I work with a forester whose job is planting trees, and he’s just had to interrupt his leave. Reason was because Shell, who are giving millions for extra planting, needed some photographs pronto for their marketing. Hence the fellow has to come in to log on and transfer the photos of the site to be planted to his senior.

Anyhow, on topic….extinction rebellion are doing good work and I am thankful.

Pie says it all.

https://medium.com/@plaosmos/extinction-rebellion-isnt-about-the-climate-42a0a73d9d49

XR itself is bigger than ‘climate’, but the current action/protests is very much about it, it even says so on their website.

https://rebellion.earth/the-truth/demands/

Extinction Rebellion is an international apolitical network using non-violent direct action to persuade governments to act justly on the Climate and Ecological Emergency. We have three demands in the UK:

I’m completely behind them.

There are too many people who are selfish, can’t be bothered and have a retort to anything you say regarding climate change matters. If seeing a granny on the telly explaining in an articulate way why she is on an XR protest, gets one more person thinking maybe I could do more, then it’s worth it.

People just want an easy comfortable life. It takes effort to be a bit greener.

Just little things add up.

When we can reach out to the people that don’t watch the news, don’t know what’s going on in the world, then we’ll get somewhere. But that will probably be when it hits them in their wallet/purse.

The point is that we are doing the changes that they are advocating, we are moving to a carbon neutral society. It is in law for 2050. The Government has declared a climate emergency.

Presumably they’ve cancelled the extra runway for Heathrow then?

bit of foil from a KitKat

Probably about 20 years old as they stopped using the foil in 2001. Surprised it hadn’t degraded, been buried under leaves etc……….

If forests are the only thing that removes carbon then that has to be the thing to focus on. We will never be zero carbon without increasing them.

Europe is approx 1 billion ha population about a billion but is already 40% forest, and the rest of the land is intensively farmed for food. The population is shrinking massively so we should replace farmend land with forest as it declines.

China similer size and numbers to Europe also stabalised population but less forest, about 20% but are planting like there is no tomorrow, one the size of Ireland recently done.

Africa on the other hand is 3 billion hectares, same 1 billion population size but only 20% forest, most fertile land on earth but a net importer of food. Massive forest fires way worse than the Amazon, massive polluter. And population estimated to increase 10 fold.

Can’t be bothered to Google India.

Who is not pulling their weight?

It’s not just forests that hold carbon. Mosses/peat bogs on moorland, seaweed too. But all this needs to be managed.

The point is that we are doing the changes that they are advocating, we are moving to a carbon neutral society. It is in law for 2050. The Government has declared a climate emergency.

So when we leave the EU, aren’t we going to be increasingly buying/importing our all-you-can-consume bargain-bucket bonanza from toxic sludge-holes of The World? How is our super-clean rap-sheet going to avoid the outsource spatter?