No public display at Farnborough

Could this be the beginning of the end for public airshows? I know a lot on here, myself included, visit airshows regularly so what do the rest of you think?

Well that reads like the biggest mess of an article I’ve read in a long time!

Seems to be reporting but ignoring dropping visitor numbers, while blaming non specified vitriolic feedback but not saying what it’s about.

Rules over acrobatic displays above public spaces were likely to be looked at post the carnage at Shoreham, but it could be as simple as the public don’t pay enough to put on a very expensive show.

it’s not that they have to stop, it’s just that over a relatively built up area like Farnborough they aren’t allowed to put on the kinds of aerobatic shows that people like, and so have decided after negative feedback on the ‘boring’ 2018 show that rather than put on a show no-one wants to watch they won’t put on a show at all.

I don’t think it will affect shows over open land or the sea, where the risks of a crash can be mitigated (for the spectators at least)

Rules over acrobatic displays above public spaces were likely to be looked at post the carnage at Shoreham

Isn’t this already in Law?

I do know that some of those who do the Vomit Loop over Chichester Harbour (out of Chichester Airfield) have been banned from doing them over the Harbour and now must do them over open water south of West Wittering.

As far as the Farnborough Airshow is concerned it reads more like a lack of public support. And all things considered air shows are boring IMO.

No, maybe a bit stricter, maybe with less stunts or maybe not so many pilots who push their luck. Sunderland air show is predominantly over the sea so considerably less risk. The cost is the one thing that will stop air shows.

I also can’t see the Red Arrows lasting much longer. The Hawk is getting very old, and the 9 (+1) planes must be a significant percentage of the total planes in the RAF. I love them, but fear they’ll be gone soon.

It was inevitable after Shoreham and Farnborough has been a rubbish event in comparison to Paris for a number of years, never mind Shoreham. Given that it’s funded by exhibiters, why would anyone want to have to pay the extra expense of travel and accommodation solely for the ‘entertainment’ of the public?

Besides, the lack of investment in permanent facilities at Farnborough, horrible traffic and people having to drive in from London because of a lack of local hotels.

Farnborough has wanted to be trade only since I used to go with my dad in the late 80’s. The Public airshow has always been a bit of an embuggerance to them.

I hope they will continue over the sea …. Bournemouth and Eastbourne seem to work well.
Shoreham (as a resident and living a mile away from the impact) has been inevitable since the pilot had been campaigning on the “ nothing to do with me
“ card, the CAA stoppeg the police accessing records and interviews, and the organisers trying to blame it on the spectators demands for “stunts”.
I was a great fan … I love to the the old war birds flying … I just want to hear a Merkin engine, I don’t need aerobatics.
But it has been 2.5 years before the prosecution of the pilot started … will a lot of trying to move the goal posts, the CAA should be ashamed

I would have thought that The Red Arrows would be switching to whatever the next generation of RAF Fast Jet Trainer is once it comes on line. I assume that having them fly the latest generation of Hawk will do wonders for export sales.

The RAF has privatised Flying training – it’s US aircraft all the way now.

Except that the lease deal didn’t get sufficient numbers so new officers are holding for 3-6 years before they can get fast jet…

CAA stoppeg the police accessing records and interviews,

Where’s that information from?

Rich_s:

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/14769058.high-court-ruling-police-refused-access-to-pilot-statements-over-shoreham-airshow-crash/

CAA’s ‘be open, even if you admit fault, we want to learn’ approach at odds with the legal system’s desire to see justice for the victims.

Sounds more like the CAA aren’t allowed to give access unless the high court says they can. Much as the victims have a need for justice I can see why (especially in the case of an airliner accident) finding out what happened is more important.

No public display AT THE WEEKEND, the public can still go in on the Friday.

So there will still be a public display, just on Friday rather than on the weekend.

Ta. But it’s not within the CAA’s remit. It’s the AAIB, and they are a fully independent body. It’s their job to investigate and apportion fault and cause, not the police or CPS. You can imagine what would happen if their internal workings were disclosed, someone would build a case out of comments made in passing, etc, and sometimes it’s not possible to “prove” what happened.

It reminds me of that odious turd Sturgeon applying pressure to the AAIB to decide what happened in the Clutha helicopter crash – they have to be free of political influence too.

By the way, the CAA are a shower of shit. Just look at the McRae crash, the Cardiff City dude, etc etc. And the pilot’s attitude to Shoreham sucks balls too.

the CAA stopped the police accessing records and interviews

er, right, just something to remember here, with regards Shoreham we are talking about an air-crash investigation (worst airshow disaster in the uk since the 50’s IIRC), not a car crash…

In an air-crash in the UK, the CAA air accident investigators (AAIB) takes full precedence over any criminal or other investigation unless there are exceptional circumstances (eg Lockerbie and even then the AAIB were leading the crash investigation). The investigation is carried out to such a detailed and forensic level that the police have very little (close to zero) expertise on. The AAIB dont do criminal investigations, go looking for scapegoats or just find a single person to blame, instead they look at and consider absolutely everything that’s happened, all the events leading up to, during, and following the crash perform a details analysis if the crash area, plane wreckage, interview all witnesses, analyse all film and video, radar, ATC data etc and then produce an exceptionally detailed report and on this and as such need to be fully independent and separate from any legal or judicial investigation (that may otherwise block or restrict or confuse their access to info and data) which therefore need to follow. Thats why the AAIB will rightly refuse and block any outside interference until they are done.

No public display AT THE WEEKEND, the public can still go in on the Friday.
So there will still be a public display, just on Friday rather than on the weekend.

Pretty sure if they do that it will just be the public can watch the commercial display on the Friday. Not a load of vintage stuff, aerobatics and Red Arrows. To be honest the majority of the public mainly want to see the Red Arrows anyway.

it’s not that they have to stop, it’s just that over a relatively built up area like Farnborough they aren’t allowed to put on the kinds of aerobatic shows that people like, and so have decided after negative feedback on the ‘boring’ 2018 show that rather than put on a show no-one wants to watch they won’t put on a show at all.

They shut off Long Valley during the airshow weeks so they can do aerobatic stuff, but yet 2018 was still dull as dishwater and featured very little other than a few fly pasts (not that I paid. Watched from top of Caesars like so many. Though I used to watch from end of runway from Long Valley but no go now).

The claims of “negative and vitriolic” feedback sounds a bit, “everyone is moaning, so screw them, we won’t do one”. Well there’s a very good reason why they were moaning. It was crap! I felt sorry for those who paid a lot to get in.

But yes, it’s the end for Farnborough show at least, possibly the commercial side too. Should think Brexit has some impact on that.

would have thought that The Red Arrows would be switching to whatever the next generation of RAF Fast Jet Trainer is once it comes on line. I assume that having them fly the latest generation of Hawk will do wonders for export sales.

They might do. Or they might not. The airframes do look kind of similar from the ground…

Hate them
I hate everything to do with war

Currently sitting looking out over the runway at Farnborough airport. Just canvassed my colleagues around me and they all agreed the show has been shit for the last few years so it was zero surprise

I do know that some of those who do the Vomit Loop over Chichester Harbour (out of Chichester Airfield) have been banned from doing them over the Harbour and now must do them over open water south of West Wittering.

No airshow at the Revival either last year, apparently a direct consequence of Shoreham. They still did the dawn patrols

I would have thought that they’ll try and keep it going post-Brexit because we desparately need to keep the appearance that we still have the ability to trade and punch above our weight.

NickC is right about the public show being a poor relation, by the time the weekend hits the displays are slowly being taken down and the halls are half empty, you basically sit in the open air and watch the planes. do the Russians still send an Antonov over?

I used to have many a teenage lucrative week in the holidays on the carparks – the number of self-important youknowwhats who insist on driving… would be very easy to have a load of free buses from the train to the airpark that you use your show ticket for but that would be too easy eh.

do they still do the massive arms fair afterwards? or do we not talk about that

Hate them
I hate everything to do with war

Even Black Hawk Down?

Everyone loves Black Hawk Down, surely? And the helicopter gunship scene out of Apocalypse Now? With the volume turned up to eleven?

I just want to hear a Merkin engine, I don’t need aerobatics.

I always find Merkin engines sound a bit muffled
Like they have some kind of big hairy wig wrapped round them

(I don’t want to know what you normally type/search that your auto correct changed Merlin to Merkin 😉 )

Hate them
I hate everything to do with war

Airshows often feature civilian aircraft, but it’s entirely possible to appreciate a classic war bird for the beautiful machine that it is.

You’ll all love my opinion. All frivolous burning of fossil fuels should be outlawed. Air shows, flying abroad to sit on a beach, going for a Sunday drive etc. Obviously flying to Canada to MTB would be fine.

Mustn’t type on an iPad after a MUA ….
Yes, should have been Merlin ( obvs)
The Mekin is a little hairier and prone to dislodging in action ….

As Boy George sang “War is Stupid, People are stupid , and love means nothing in some strange quarters”

The second WW happened …. and some of us happen to be in awe of the engineering. The fossil fuel argument … well lets go and have a look as some of the exotic bike trips everyone goes on, or travel …
Travel broadens the mind , right?

I have a flat at the end of the runway

I expect they want the event to be 100% commercially focused – instead of having to compromise on the commercial aspect in order to accomodate the logistics of the public days. I expect that’s probably why the last couple of years have been quite poor from a public perspective – they’ve just de-prioritised that part of it.

It’s a shame, but from an event perspective, I can understand this I suppose – it’d be difficult to design an efficient global arms fair, if on Sat and Sunday you basically have to turn the place into Alton Towers.

Remember working across from the runway in a commercial estate there many years ago, pointless trying to have a telephone conversation for the whole week and everybody took cigarette breaks every few minutes or when something loud seemed to be happening, even those who didn’t smoke.
Its a trade show, the public side is costly and now entails a lot of safety regulations that either restrict what the planes can actually demonstrate or add cost overall to manage, I can see why they are doing this.
Still remember when the Russians came in the early 90’s, that was some crazy stuff they do it those Migs and Sukhois.

Was it Farnborough where the Migs collided?

The Paris Sukhoi pancake was a bit of a whoops, too.

edit: I was going to say, they don’t do stuff like that at airshows now, but, that’s not true, just not in this country.

it’s entirely possible to appreciate a classic war bird for the beautiful machine that it is.

Not if you don’t see any beauty in it it’s not.
A big ugly metal machine designed to intentionally kill/maim other human beings is not something I’d ever see as beautiful. You crack on though.

Never seen “Blackhawk Down” or “Apocalypse Now” Binners.
I do like very loud fast repetitive beats and bass noise but access to a vast collection of Industrial/Dance music sorts that out without having to watch xenophobic action war movies.

Even Black Hawk Down?

Everyone loves Black Hawk Down, surely?

Yep watch that a few times and then you’ll come to love war for the beautiful thing that it is 😉 There’s hope for you yet…

Although in all seriousness, BHD is an awesome film, up there in my top 3 all time movies.

I do like very loud fast repetitive beats

Like a Merlin engine? Doesn’t get much louder or faster.