The electric car *charging* thread

not strictly EV but as it was mentioned above, data centres use huge amounts of power, not least generating heat in the tech that stores and processes the data, and then taking it away again. There’s a lot of work going into new materials for devices, so that at least some of the expansion will be matched by efficiency. Don’t panic, there’ll still be enough for our cars.

https://www.royce.ac.uk/materials-for-the-energy-transition-low-loss-electronics/

https://www.electropages.com/blog/2024/07/gan-and-sic-transform-ai-data-centers-efficiency

Also interesting to think that google searching is energy intensive, using AI to do the same uses 50-100x more. And so every time someone fails to provide a citation in one of their wild (usually political) claims and so the readers are forced to ‘do their own research’ – they’re directly responsible for the destruction of the planet and more so now I get a pointless AI summary at the top of my google search that I don’t read anyway. Bastards.

This is gonna sound pathetic but which Tesla app is it.  I have checked and see various apps and i definately dont want to be signing up for one i dont need.  I do not have a Tesla but want to use their network for my new EV

If you have to use any other network arm yourself with patience and make sure you’ve got enough kms left to get to another charge point if /when it doesn’t work.

I’m a Tesla driver and yes the Supercharger network is great but only 40 or so of the UK Superchargers are open to the public. There are good non-Tesla networks in the UK like Ionity, Osprey, FastNed, Mer and MFG they’ll just cost a bit more. No need for patience to use them just get an Electroverse card which covers just about all the decent charging networks.

Another question – I have installed ZapMap and I have seen they have ‘ZapPay’. I assume that, should I put my card details on it, I can then pay over the app if the charge station doesn’t accept contactless payments? I also assume that, if there is no phone coverage at the location, then it won’t work?

This is gonna sound pathetic but which Tesla app is it.  I have checked and see various apps and i definately dont want to be signing up for one i dont need.  I do not have a Tesla but want to use their network for my new EV

“Tesla”
Though I don’t think it’s necessary, all the public superchargers we have used just take card payments, and can be found on Zapmap, filtered by public v Tesla only.

This is gonna sound pathetic but which Tesla app is it.  I have checked and see various apps and i definately dont want to be signing up for one i dont need.  I do not have a Tesla but want to use their network for my new EV

The most I paid for a Tesla charge was 50p, all the others were 83p or more. The Tesla app didn’t fleece me on exchange rates and commission, all the others did.

 I have installed ZapMap and I have seen they have ‘ZapPay’. I assume that, should I put my card details on it, I can then pay over the app if the charge station doesn’t accept contactless payments?

I really wouldn’t bother with ZapPay. Just get an Octopus Electroverse card and the Electroverse app. The Electroverse RFID card means you don’t need an app and mobile data to activate a charger. Also you don’t need to be an Octopus customer to use Electroverse. The Electroverse app is very good in showing the locations of all Electroverse compliant chargers.

This is gonna sound pathetic but which Tesla app is it. 

Its the official Tesla app that all Tesla drivers use. If you are a non-Tesla driver you use the “Charge your other EV” part of the app (navigate to it via the pizza box icon on the top rhs). When you open this section the app automatically shows you all the Superchargers available to the public..

Thought I’d have a look at the Tesla App. I’ve registered and put a payment card in, thne on the home screen there’s the ‘Charge your EV’ pic, so I tap the three lines (top right) and then I can select my profile of there’s a charging menu and if I hit that then all I’ve got is manage payment, history and membership. Can’t find the ‘other EV’ section, am I going nuts?

Next up is Electroverse, something tells me it’ll be easier than Tesla.

hi madhouse – this was driving me nuts as well, until I realised that as I am a non-tesla owner (which I guess I must have told the app during set up) the app automatically only shows me Tesla chargers that I can access. There is a ton that simply do not show on my Tesla app, which I cross referenced by using the finder on the Tesla website.

does that make sense?

Haven’t actually used one yet right enough, so the access is only theoretical, not confirmed with experience, although I am all set up to do so. Must try at some point!

Oh, and yeah, I do most journey charging planning with Electroverse. it’s good.

You are in the “other EV” section, madhouse. Just search a charge point on the map page and away you go. Once registered you open the app and the first thing it proposes when you open it is find a charger, click that for the map and enter a destination (on the French language version anyhow)

Oh, so I don’t actually have to do anything? Tesla help was unhelpfully vague.

Just so I know I’m not going mad(er than usual), does this mean as a non-Tesla driver I could use the super chargers at Exeter Services? It’s showing in my app that I can and if that’s the case it’d be the most useful of the lot for me.

In other news, have signed up for electroverse with a card on the way. Think that pretty much sorts my charging app ‘starter for 10’ set.

Thanks for the help all.

It’s not Exeter services it’s Exeter service centre which suggests it’s at a Tesla dealer (I’ve used the one at Solihull service centre which is in the Tesla dealer car park). There’s also one at Darts farm Exeter. You can use both. 61p and 65p at the moment as it’s the most expensive time of the day. Type the address into Google Maps to find them, the blue dot on the Tesla app isn’t as accurate as the Google one.

Thanks for pointing that out, classic user error! Turns out there’s nothing that’d be particularly handy to me on my regular jaunts but that might change, so it may still come in handy.

You really don’t need to mess about with apps unless you are using slow chargers at destinations (and then only sometimes). Debit card – beep, done.  It’s nowhere near as bad as Edukator makes out.  Mostly it’s the older chargers in ones and twos that are unreliable. If you go to a big site or services, they’re great.  On our recent trip the only charger out of ten or so that didn’t work was a Tesla!

They are cheap though, the downside is that they aren’t always the most convenient.  The one in Cardiff is near the motorway but through a housing estate.  It’s next to a Waitrose but if that’s shut you’ve got nowhere to sit except in the car.

Had 100 miles of range on arrival. 45 minutes later, 180 miles

@retrorick not sure if we’ve already discussed this but the charge rate slows down a lot after 80% and dwindles to almost nothing after 90. So if you are on the road, it’s significantly more time efficient to stop charging and 80% and start driving.  Of course, if you’re chilling/drinking/eating then it’s fine – as long as you are with the car and you can make sure you’re not blocking anyone who needs to charge and get going.

It’s not almost nothing on most EVs, Molgrips, the Zoe takes 45kW to about 75% then drops to 36kW and is still at 25kW at 95% and about 18kW at 98%. There are many journeys I do when going to the max rather than 80% avoids a charge at the end of the day which saves the time to hunt down an extra charger and the risk of another faff. The distance between the only reliable chargers (wink) in France sometimes means going to 98% or having to drive slower to get between them. Assuming you recharge at 15% 80- 15 is 65 and 98-15 is 83, roughly 30% more range.

One not working Tesla charger isn’t really a problem when there’s a row of 28 of them. I’m still on 100% reliablity from about 40 Tesla charges.

There’s something like 8 chargers at Fort William, I tried three and failed.  There was a CPS one at the other side of the car park I had to use.

I think the Ioniq electric is under 7kW i.e. slower than AC charging by the time it gets to 95%…

The pleasant charging speed of the Ioniq is fine.

Did another 2 sessions today and the time spent charging was spent taking photos of sea mist, seals and phone calls.

I’ll be back on the Tesla chargers in a few days…

My Model Y is still pulling 250mph at 85% charge. The stop charging at 80% rule doesn’t apply to a lot of EVs these days.

That is impressive @uponthedowns!

The Ioniq motor in my car is nearing 50000 miles and it is driving as if it was new. I’ve no idea what it was like when it was new but it is silent at 50000 miles and I don’t imagine that it was noisy when new.

Charged it twice today, covered 103 miles at 5.1m/kWh.

The only thing that reveals the age of an EV seems to be the interior and the shock absorbers/suspension bushings, eventually. Our second one at 79k is identical to our first one which was new, other than a few very minor creaks from the bushings. I’m expecting to do the shocks and bushings in a couple of years’s time but that’s because I’m a fussy bugger with that sort of thing.

Seems like Ioniq motor bearings might go after 200k miles or so, but they can apparently be replaced using the same gear as a gearbox job.

Brushes need replacing. “brushless” is a misnomer in that there’s still a contact brush but without segments which eventually wears out. The battery cooling is a weak point and can be very expensive to fix. Motors do fail but rarely. And the usual electrics/electronics nightmare that every modern car is.

Brushes need replacing

I’m not sure about this. Most EV motors are AC induction motors that dont have brushes. There may be exceptions, but I have been consuming a lot of media about EVs over the years and I have never heard the word “brushes” related to EVs until today. Vacuum cleaners, yes.

As for electronics – interior stuff, yes, and whilst there is electronics under the bonnet (the inverter) the two main things that kill engine electronics in an ICE are heat and vibration; neither of these exist in any significant amount in an EV so they should be much more reliable.

Of course, failures can occur.

Brushless motors still have brushes, you’ll see what I’m refering to in the photo half way down:

https://www.speakev.com/threads/r90-whining-noise-at-low-speed-supposedly-motor-brushes.161815/

As mentioned earlier by molgrips 3 of the Tesla chargers at Fort William don’t work with the Ioniq, Chargers 2a,b,c.

Chargers 1abc work.

Just incase I’ve mixed the numbers up, the 3 on the left as you look at them don’t work but the 3 on the right do (nearest the CPS chargers).

Lots of other non Tesla cars had success with the ones on the left though.

I had a Merc and a BMW using 2 chargers but blocking 3 unless you had a charge port on the driver’s side.

Brushless motors still have brushes, you’ll see what I’m refering to in the photo half way down:

There are different types of motors used in EVs. The brushes in that Zoe-specific article power the electromagnet on the rotor, but some motors (like mine) have permanent magnets on the rotor and others rely on induced current in the rotor.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/how-electric-cars-work-ev-differences-definitions/

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a39493798/ev-motors-explained/

Currently charging at Larkhall Tesla. Arrived at 15%, started slow, needed to get to 33% before the charging speed maxed out at 47kW.

A few Tesla’s have arrived, charged and left in the time I’ve been sat here, ? (crying eyes emoji).

Arrived at 15%, started slow, needed to get to 33% before the charging speed maxed out at 47kW.

I think that’s temperature related, the battery needs to be warm before it hits max speed. So if your driving wasn’t enough to warm it in cooler weather, it needs the charging current to warm it up.

Did my first ever EV trip over the weekend – tried to hire a Tesla and got a Merc EQE. Delivered with 96%, drove from Manchester to Southampton picking a colleague up near Northwich. Arrived with 32% and used charger at hotel (only charged at 11kwh despite being 22kw charger but no problem as could just leave it charging) Bit of a faff as needed to download an app and took a few goes plugging in to get to to communicate with the car but fine after. Chickened out of leaving it connected all night as was worried it would be full at 4am then charge me for overstaying so didn’t depart with a full battery.

Stopped on way up north but the 4 non tesla chargers were busy (sat afternoon) so went to next services and got on last available charger there at 22kwh so grabbed enough charge to get home during the biblical storm, annoyingly as soon as I disconnected the chap in the Mustang next to us went from 22kw to 44 so obviously shared. Nipped to trafford centre to use Tesla superchargers, downloaded app and was soon enjoying 169kw which was mega.

TLDR With no pre planning or even pre loading apps it was pretty easy for a 1st trip, Tesla chargers are the dogs danglies and the Merc has a massive battery.

only charged at 11kwh despite being 22kw charger

Yeah nearly all cars are 7 or 11kW on AC. The rapid chargers are DC.

Bit of a faff as needed to download an app

Yeah it’s these slow AC chargers that often need apps – it seems any chancer can set up a ‘charging company’ and roll these out for minimum cost so there are loads of them, but they are doing it on the cheap so don’t have proper debit card acquiring and rely on an app. Annoying.

got a Merc EQE

How was it?

It was an EQE 350+ so an absolute beast, lovely to drive but a long way out of my budget new. Smooth and comfy, acceleration just bananas so kept it in comfort mode, overall a nice place to be on a long journey and easy in traffic with no gears and regen.

I think that’s temperature related, the battery needs to be warm before it hits max speed. So if your driving wasn’t enough to warm it in cooler weather, it needs the charging current to warm it up.

I drove quicker to Gretna Tesla chargers and on arrival with a similar % remaining the charging speed was in the 40s from the start.

45 minutes later left the charger and drove the remaining 125 miles home with 165 in expected range.

Scraped in back home with less than 5%, showing 0 miles range on the dash and turtle mode.

I’ll stick to 65mph next time on the motorway. winky eye.

Return 320 mile journey from Fort William was around 4.5m/kWh.

Overall average for around 1600 miles was 4.9m/kWh .

drove the remaining 125 miles home with 165 in expected range.

Scraped in back home with less than 5%, showing 0 miles range on the dash and turtle mode.

Interesting, that has never happened to me – in fact, the opposite. I can have 200 miles say at 100%, then 100 miles at 50% but by the time I get to 10% it’ll be showing 25 miles. So the remaining range goes up in proportion to the battery.

Was that last leg in heavy rain? That’ll knock efficiency right down. From your figures it looks like that might’ve been the case.

It was raining. Not particularly heavy though.

I was making progress in the motorway, near 70mph gps speed for most of the time.

The last 10 miles are hilly at the point of leaving the motorway I had 10 miles leeway over the distance I needed to travel.

The car flagged up that I was down to 10% remaining at 20 miles to go. I was controlling the regen with the paddles so no-one going up hill and a little going down as I reckoned it’d be better rolling than slowing down.

Predicted range dropped from around 6 miles to 0 miles without a countdown. I was on the last downhill leg with some minor ups so not too concerned but I feared that if I stopped it would decide not to start again!

Plugged in and there was around 5% left so maybe a few more miles before stopping completely.

I could have just topped up the battery by a few kW when leaving the motorway as there are plenty of chargers in the area. Next time I’ll do that rather than chancing it.

Speed makes a massive difference in the eNiro too. At 60 GPS I can get 240-250 mikes range. At 70 GPS it’s more like 180-190.

The speedo reads roughly 10% over speed (vs GPS and odometer) at all speeds.

I did have one trip last year from Aberdeen – Glasgow (around 150 miles) during the winter. There was heavy rain the whole way. I set off with 100% charge at 70mph, expecting to make it home easily. Around 40 miles out from Glasgow I had to slow down as I was not willing to risk it. Got home finally with 10% charge showing.

I’ve had an unexpected setback now I’m a couple of months into EV ownership.

The DNO has reviewed my install and decided that the cable to my property is not up to snuff to run a charger as well. The cable finds its way into the middle of the house due to an extension.

This is going to be a massive disrupt. I can’t see what the easiest way to sort this might be without dismantling the inside of my house.

Luckily, the earliest appointment for this safety critical visit is mid November so at least it’ll be after Xmas when the bother starts

Interesting event time… It involves my OH who drives the LEAF, and i’ll be honest, her mindset isn’t adapted to EV ownership yet (i,e she never plugs the car in, then immediately needs 30kWh 4 minutes before she leaves etc etc!!).

Anyway… here are the reported events:

• she claims she left for a 122km ‘there and back’ journey on sunday morning with 100% charge (40kWh battery).. with 25 miles left to go the car “suddenly ran out of charge” so she had to pull into a garage to add some charge.
• 18 year old stepdaughter sepnt the whole time screaming at her because she made the traffic jams and made the car run out of charge.
• she got back with 18% charge.

Here are the FACTS – gathered from bank statements and the Nissan app!:

• she travelled 121.8km, using 18.3kHw
• she added one whole english pound of charge at the services (unclear if this is a preauth charge? nothing else showing on the bank statement
• she got home with 18% charge.
• The car has a great battery SOH
• Looking at the OHME app, it appears that we PROBABLY (i saythis, as i recall unplugging my car and plugging hers in, thus it’s a new charge session) added 24 ish kWh.

Now…

We all know that the battery charge status decreases in a rather visual manner..by this i mean, it DOESN’T suddenly drop charge in a split second!

And, I’m never 100% convinced she’s plugged the car in properly, or let it fully charge, or hasn’t accidentally added a charge timer….

I THINK that she didn’t actually have 100% charge when she left, and didn’t monitor the SOC as she drove, thus the emergeny fill up was required..

She says she definitely left with 100%  SOC, and used ALL the battery in under 100km… but…the Nissan app would beg to differ!

DrP

boomerlives
I’ve had an unexpected setback now I’m a couple of months into EV ownership.

The DNO has reviewed my install and decided that the cable to my property is not up to snuff to run a charger as well. The cable finds its way into the middle of the house due to an extension.

This is going to be a massive disrupt. I can’t see what the easiest way to sort this might be without dismantling the inside of my house.

What does DNO mean?
Only asking as I’m currently having an extension done on the house & have asked the electrician when it comes to do the wiring, to put in cabling for an EV charger & cap it off for the time being, until we have a requirement for a charger. I figured it would make it easier when we eventually want the charger to have the cabling put in place now.

Is there anything I need to pay special heed to?
I think the electrician mentioned he also does EV charger installs, so hopefully he will know what he is doing when he sorts it out. But, it’s nice to have a bit of info in advance.

LOL – mrschrispy also struggles to plug in the car, its literally a 5 second job ffs, I just get a “the car needs charging” comments when she comes in.

There is also unnecessary stress about range, she’ll worry that she wont get to her mums and back, its a 30mile round trip when there is 100mile range left :-/