The electric car *charging* thread

There are half a dozen rapids and half a dozen fast in Rhodes according to Chargemap. They take the Chargemap RFID card (in theory, it often doesn’t work IME) but other forms of payment aren’t mentioned. They’re run by PPC Mobility but their site blocks my computer. I suggest contacting the rental company and asking where and how to charge.

thanks, that’s also the confusion I’d got stuck with.

a bit more digging found incharge who seem to have a bunch of chargers on the island – might risk it..

https://www.nrgincharge.gr/en/xartis-fortiston

Can anyone recommend an outside socket for a 3-pin plug granny charger with a rather thick cable (and the springy rubber ‘flex’ st the plug end)?

I have some questions around smart tariffs for existing users, as I will hopefully be moving to a house where I can get a proper charger installed.

Intelligent Octopus Go looks like the default choice. Looks like it’s 7p/kw.hr for 6 hrs each night, but what happens during the day if it schedules a charge – does the whole house switch to the 7p rate? I’m thinking it would be easy to “game” the system by ensuring you need to charge in the day – i.e. don’t plug in at night, plug in at 9AM,and charge the car through the day, hey presto a 7p day rate. I can’t imagine Octopus would let that happen – so is there some system to prevent it ?

Intelligent Octopus Go looks like the default choice. Looks like it’s 7p/kw.hr for 6 hrs each night, but what happens during the day if it schedules a charge – does the whole house switch to the 7p rate? I’m thinking it would be easy to “game” the system by ensuring you need to charge in the day – i.e. don’t plug in at night, plug in at 9AM,and charge the car through the day, hey presto a 7p day rate. I can’t imagine Octopus would let that happen – so is there some system to prevent it ?

Yes and no. You tell it how much you want added and by when, so you would plug it in at 9am and tell it you want eg. 75% added by 7pm. Octopus then decide when they want to deal that out to you, it’s unlikely to start immediately, or be for the entire 9am to 7pm period. When it is charging you will get 7p rate for the whole house. I actually don’t know what happens if you ask it todo that type of thing and Octopus don’t think they have the excess capacity to give you cheap electricity during the day, but would presume the charger app would tell you what it can do. If you plug in at 9 am (or at anytime) and just hit the “Charge Now” you will always get charged full whack as you are not giving them any control.

as above..

I’ve found that MOST of the time, once you plug the car in, it’ll start charging but for like 15 minutes per hour.. (of course, at night it’ll charge through the cheap hours).
The later in the day, the more likely it is to charge all the time.. so getting back from work at 1800 and plugging in, more often than not it’ll start charging.

What’s useful (for me) is that the polestar doesn’t ‘talk’ to the charger, so the charger ALWAYS thinks the car is on zero %, so will ‘force’ a charge…

(i have the Ohme set to charge to 100% by 0700)

DrP

My new motor has a offer for a free Ohme charger or £900 electroverse credit, we already have pod point charger and are on the normal Go tariff (8.5p 12.30-5.30).

I’m not convinced I’d see the return on moving to Intelligent Go so I’m taking the £900 credit, it’ll make 100% stress free for the next 3 years.

I’m diving into the electric car world shortly and wondering about charging. Currently with Octopus so imagine we will be moving to the overnight tariff – I can’t see any reason not to? Wall chargers are expensive so won’t be getting one until the old car is sold most likely. I’m assuming I can make do with the standard 3 pin plug for a while as the car won’t do huge miles frequently (bit of a pain though as it only comes with the type 2 cable so I have to fork out for a 3 pin one!)

When it comes to wall chargers, what is good these days? Is it worth an intelligent one over a ‘normal’ one to be able to get on the intelligent go tariff?

I’ve been looking at public chargers as we will likely have to rely on those occasionally without a decent one at home, they all seem to be around 80p/kwh – is that normal ?

Tesla open to public are usually under 50p

When it comes to wall chargers, what is good these days? Is it worth an intelligent one over a ‘normal’ one to be able to get on the intelligent go tariff?

IMHO, yes get an intelligent one for future proofing as then you can access smart tariffs independent of what car is hooked up.

I’m 3 pin charging my Ioniq at a leisurely rate of 1.5kwh. I don’t do many regular miles but can do 25 miles a day when I use the car for a commute. Takes around 5 hours to recoup the range. Easily done over night. Octopus Agile tariff so I try to avoid anything higher than 15 pence KW. A fast AC home charger would be nice but I’ll hold out for the time being as I can if needed use my partners charger.

Not sure if its been mentioned on here but i read yesterday that a park & charge site in blackpool has finished installing 3 x 480kw chargers.  They accept that cars do not have this capability in the UK yet but if successful they plan to put in in about 6 other sites too.

Thats got to start being game changing if the car manufacturers up their game too

what happens during the day if it schedules a charge – does the whole house switch to the 7p rate?

Yes, but don’t game the system. They know people are doing it, but they cannot afford to sell you most of your electricity at that price. If people take the piss then they’ll have to stop doing it and we’ll all lose out. It’s a dick move.

They know people are doing it

I guess that seeing as it will be visible in the data down to the user level that hopefully individuals would get a “please stop” notification or to before being shunted off the tariff unless a half-decent reason can be provided (night shift workers maybe?). At least I hope so otherwise as molgrips says everyone will ultimately lose out.

Thats got to start being game changing if the car manufacturers up their game too

I dunno if it’ll change the game. The fastest cars now get 250kW which is absolutely fast enough. It’ll take more engineering to boost that and be more expensive, so you’ll see if customers are prepared to cough up big money to charge in 9  mins instead of 12.

Hasnt that always the case with all things electric involving battery and charging technology.  Its extremely important to see the top end getting bigger/faster and those that use it do indeed pay extortionate amounts.  But as well, the trickle down effect is what used to be top of the line (250kw) technology becomes readily available and cheaper for the masses.

Not sure if its been mentioned on here but i read yesterday that a park & charge site

As in like park and ride into town for visitors? Wrong use case/location for an uber fast-rapid charger then I’d suggest – those venues are perfect for the 11kw max most cars can charge at so 3-5 hrs (usually 22kw ac chargers).

The mega fast chargers need to be on arterial routes and more in outlying areas like west wales, cornwall devon that have seasonal peaks that create big queues if not >150kw.

Not got an EV but am toying with the idea, so doing a bit of research. One thing I hear a lot is that the public charging infrastructure isn’t there yet, making longer trips a nightmare. But I wonder whether there is really much evidence for this claim.

Yesterday I had to pick up my son just outside Aberdeen at rush hour. I had some time to kill so went to a location where there are two sets of high speed (350kw) chargers. Each location has 12 chargers but in the 30 minutes I was there no more than two were being used at any one time (so at least 20 free). Interestingly Zapmap always said that only one was in use, so that’s obviously not perfect.

Ok, Aberdeen is a bit far from civilisation, so I had a look on Zapmap just now to see what a drive to Norwich might be like. A few specific sites look busier than the others, but none seem to be full and there are loads of options for >100kw chargers on the route. Probably a different story on the Friday/Saturday before a summer holiday, but travelling then is a nightmare whatever type of car you are in.

I will be joining the EV brigade on the 25th of this month, have Ohme being installed as part of deal from car dealer.  Although I have been reviewing prices and I may use the public charging network upto 50khw I am finding some good prices using various apps 25p -39p and I understand Tesla chargers are around 50p.  Still cost effective compared to Petrol.

This may be useful to some:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1DOswN-GODssM2XmKV4oQ9r-mkGcbGno&ll=52.154601057615075%2C3.374081062500033&z=5

Its a maintained map of just larger(5+) hubs, something that is hard to find on the existing apps.  Avoids having to chance it on 2 chargers behind McDs.

One thing I hear a lot is that the public charging infrastructure isn’t there yet, making longer trips a nightmare. But I wonder whether there is really much evidence for this claim.

A lot of things said about EVs apply to the USA where the infrastructure is indeed absolutely shocking. Here though it’s really pretty good in most places. The only place where I have to even think about it is going to North Wales on the A470, because it’s a long way for my short range car and there really are very few en-route. But they’re there. And I don’t actually have to drive that way, I can go up the A49 which has many more chargers. And of course, I only need one charger somewhere on the way up and one on the way back because you don’t have to wait til you’re empty and charge to full. When I went up last time in the EV I needed a place to top up on the way out to get me back to Corwen or Oswestry area where I knew I’d be eating and charge up enough to get all the way home.

However this is a niche situation caused by being in Mid Wales. Everywhere else just drive, and stop when the car says to stop. Or when you want lunch etc.

Interestingly Zapmap always said that only one was in use, so that’s obviously not perfect.

Yeah Zap Map wasn’t very accurate on our Scotland trip, the car’s on-board system was spot on.

I checked through the junk mail earlier and found a Charge Place Scotland headed envelope! Inside was a shiny CPS RFID card.

Those with an Ohme charger – it looks like they’ve updated the app/system so intelligent octopus go is no longer a beta mode..

Not that anything will change, but they have changed the app appearance…

DrP

Yeah I got an email from Ohme today – but it seems to be describing all the changes that came with v.2.0.0 of the app which was released two months ago?

I was driving a plug-in hybrid on the Tour of Britain so my first foray into the world of actually charging the thing.

OK, I was very restricted in where I could go – specific hotels, a defined race route and so on, it wasn’t a case of seeking a charge point and going to it. Thankfully the car ran on full petrol because it would have been completely unworkable to have a pure EV or something that “needed” a portion of charge to function.

I charged it twice (the hotels which actually had charging points, 2 out of 5) and had to download two separate apps, set up payment etc for each and work out which of the points were actually compatible.

I appreciate that it’s a very specific usage – I didn’t “know” the car (didn’t even know what car I’d be getting until I actually picked it up at Race HQ) and I’d not prepared any advance info on charging points but I just found it all such a faff. It should not need a different app for each version of charge point, should not need the thought of “oh I can use this one but not that one”.

I have a similar complaint about parking apps. I don’t want a **** app, I want to pay some money. It’s that simple. Or it bloody should be.

OK, I was very restricted in where I could go – specific hotels, a defined race route and so on, it wasn’t a case of seeking a charge point and going to it.

Doesn’t sound like an ideal use for ‘full EV mode’ in a hybrid with a limited range.

BTW, were there petrol stations on your limited route as well?

DrP

BTW, were there petrol stations on your limited route as well?

Petrol stations, no issues, the organisation had provided fuel cards and a list of stations en route / near hotels etc, that was no problem. The car I had would do about 350 miles on a tank running in petrol mode (and there was actually a proportion of the battery that’d self charge cos it would often switch itself to EV for low speed stuff even when the main battery had no charge).

But 350 miles was fine for driving from hotel to race start, doing the race distance and then driving to the next hotel with a stop en route to fill it up.

Could never stop at a charging station on a motorway though, we didn’t have the time to sit there and wait an hour for a supercharger to top it up.

Finish race, sort everything, get to next hotel.

As I say, it’s quite a specific use case! It’s also why the majority of team cars are still full petrol or diesel estates. And it’s getting increasingly difficult to get proper estate cars as everything evolves to SUV styling.

. The fastest cars now get 250kW which is absolutely fast enough

I’d disagree. The hyundais that are getting that sort of speed still take 20 minutes to do a 5-80% charge (approx 210 miles of range being added). That still means that there will, when busy, be queues at charging points and a delay in your journey. To get to the long journey convenience of ICE (where you just don’t need to think, at all, about range and filling up, just stop when it gets towards empty) you need to be getting that time down to ~5 minutes, 480kw would get it to 10 mins, which for sure is a step in the right direction, but imo faster will help massively

. The fastest cars now get 250kW which is absolutely fast enough
I’d disagree. The hyundais that are getting that sort of speed still take 20 minutes to do a 5-80% charge (approx 210 miles of range being added). That still means that there will, when busy, be queues at charging points and a delay in your journey. To get to the long journey convenience of ICE (where you just don’t need to think, at all, about range and filling up, just stop when it gets towards empty) you need to be getting that time down to ~5 minutes, 480kw would get it to 10 mins, which for sure is a step in the right direction, but imo faster will help massively

I’d disagree with you….Done 45k around UK and europe in that type of car and anything above 150-175kw charging speed is absolutely fine for the user. Most of the time you’re not going to 80% on an expensive charger, just enough e’s to get you home to a cheaper charge. Even if you are, sometimes that speed is too quick by the time you’ve been to the loo and bought a sandwich, done.

The factor that needs addressing which you’ve confused with personal charging speed, is adding more rapid chargers to have the capacity as the number of cars on the road increases – in the way that petrol stations have been sized for the market demand. Increasing to 450kw is not practible as there would be very few locations in the country available where the in-ground supply can provide that.

Personally I’m more than happy as long as the future has plentiful rapid chargers at 150+, that work, that aren’t stupidly expensive. One change I’d make is ensuring my next car has a really good battery pre-conditioning as having slow speeds in the winter is a pain.

One thing I hear a lot is that the public charging infrastructure isn’t there yet, making longer trips a nightmare. 

You just have to get your mind right.

My first trip in my EV (the day after I got it) was from Manchester to Leven – a 500 mile round trip. Started with 100%, charged at Abingdon on their new Gridserve chargers for 20 mins, went to my appointment in Leven, did  the same thing in reverse. Two 20 minute rest stops in 500 miles isn’t unreasonable.

48 hours later – Manchester to Sidcup – 550 miles. Same deal – top up at a loo break on the way down, top up again with a late lunch on the way back. My previous car (320d) could do the round trip on a full tank, but only just. And I would need to fill it anyway rather than just plug it in when I got home.

Currently with Octopus so imagine we will be moving to the overnight tariff – I can’t see any reason not to? 

Why wouldn’t you? My usage for Sept so far is 156kW that cost £11.27. Saving £26 over standard tariff according to the Ohme app.

The car was better at finding empty chargers than Zapmap, the inaccuracy of the app undermines confidence.

It should not need a different app for each version of charge point, should not need the thought of “oh I can use this one but not that one”.

It doesn’t. Just get an Octopus Electroverse card which covers all the charging networks that are worth using including lots that operate destination chargers at car parks and hotels.

Ok so my work situation is becoming clearer – it’s Octopus EV 100% via salary sacrifice – choose a car and go.  What’s more the car I’m looking at – an I4 or Polestar 2 seems to be cheaper than the random lease sites I looked at – about £640 pre salary sacrifice.

So now what I need to know is others experience of wiring the charger from mid-house under the stairs to my (mains powered) garage 50m away without destroying the house or garden….

A full month after I emailed chargeplecescotland about my non-functional account and their non-functional website, they eventually replied to me asking for full details of my account “due to GDPR rules”.

Needless to say, I have heard nothing more from them in the fortnight since then.

So now what I need to know is others experience of wiring the charger from mid-house under the stairs to my (mains powered) garage 50m away without destroying the house or garden….

I contacted several installers and most wanted loads of images sent to them of my mains fuse, consumer unit etc and the route to where I wanted the charger sited and then quoted based on that. I went with the company that came back with the most sensible follow up questions based on what I had sent them in the end.

@Kryton57 this sounds like a job for a local electrician who can visit and discuss options with you.  Underground, overground wombling free.

and a delay in your journey

But that’s not much of a delay. You can deal with that.

long journey convenience of ICE (where you just don’t need to think, at all, about range and filling up, just stop when it gets towards empty)

But that’s exactly what I do with my EV…

Some people really are a bit too precious.

The factor that needs addressing which you’ve confused with personal charging speed, is adding more rapid chargers to have the capacity as the number of cars on the road increases

I’ve probably said that 15 times on this thread 🙂 I didn’t say you need 250kW, I said it’s fast enough.

A full month after I emailed chargeplecescotland about my non-functional account and their non-functional website, they eventually replied to me asking for full details of my account “due to GDPR rules”.

My CPS card turned up recently. I ordered one, the £12 payment didn’t seem to be taken from my bank account, I thought I’d made a mistake somewhere along the way but it turned up anyway. It arrived in a hand written envelope so it seems that CPS are doing part of the process manually.

The card will be used soon.

My other half has misplaced the octoverse card which was going to be another backup card. I thought I’d ordered one myself but it seems not to be the case. Unless one arrives in the post soon I’ll be reliant on the app assuming there’s a signal.

I have a chargepoint card as well which will be my 3rd choice of card on route.

Lots of chargers appear on the app and you can click ‘start charge ‘ but it will never work because they are not app enabled. However you can call CPS and they start it remotely.

Thats got to start being game changing if the car manufacturers up their game too

The battery technology is starting to improve, with solid metal batteries starting to be introduced. That will mean full-charge ranges of between 500-700 miles. With my old diesel Skoda, a full tank gave me around 500 miles, the Insignia I had on loan gave me just under 900 miles from a single tank while I was mostly commuting to and from work over nearly a month and a half.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect to be able to charge a car up once a month, and not keep needing to hunt for available charging stations if going away from the local chargers, like somewhere away from urban areas.

I’m not in the EV market, or ever really likely to be, unless something extraordinary happens to my finances, but, should the unlikely scenario happen, I wouldn’t be looking at anything with less than 500 miles/full charge; it’s bad enough now having to have a bunch of different apps in order to use a car park or parking meters, let alone doing the same to be able to charge a car, when I can just drive into any available filling station and fill my car in five minutes.

when I can just drive into any available filling station and fill my car in five minutes.

Or you can plug it in when you get home and never visit a filling station again. It happens while you sleep. For pennies.