Home Forums Chat Forum The effect of safety attire on perceptions of cyclist dehumanisation

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  • The effect of safety attire on perceptions of cyclist dehumanisation
  • 1
    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    It’s Australian research. It doesn’t necessarily invalidate the findings but anti-cycling attitudes are even more prevalent than the UK.

    There have been various, mostly small-scale, ad-hoc “studies” in both UK and US that have come to much the same conclusion though. A general “othering” of cyclists, cultural norms around driving being the “proper” or “normal” way of getting around therefore cyclists are different and somehow less worthy.

    I had an old chap stop me and tell me my rear light was too bright

    There is no such thing as a Goldilocks Cyclist where everything is just right. You’re either riding too fast (and therefore hurtling and a menace) or you’re riding so slowly that you’re holding up all the traffic.

    You’re either dressed in all black and completely invisible (and motorists will shout out of their window to tell you how they haven’t seen you!) or you’re too bright and therefore dazzling.

    Your lights are either pathetic and inadequate or they’re blinding everyone for miles around.

    Sometimes all these things can happen simultaneously. I’ve had “sorry mate I didn’t see you” and “your lights are too bright” on the same ride. /shrug emoji

    2
    BadlyWiredDog
    Full Member

    Try riding a black bike in police uniform with or without a helmet, and see how you are treated.

    Years ago, there was a study where someone rode the same route daily on a motorcycle and recorded how many times their progress was obstructed. Using a headlight made only marginal difference compared with not, but dressing the bike up to look like a police motorcycle resulted in almost no incidents. The conclusion was that motorists can see motorcycles, but only treat them with any respect when they perceive them as a threat to their licence/wallet.

    Clearly that’s all happening sub-consciously, rather than as a logical, reasoned take, but it made a certain amount of sense to me. The parallel was that working as a motorcycle in courier in that London also elicited a certain amount of ‘respect’, which was probably fear for their bodywork.  Cyclists rank pretty low on the scale of actual threat to cars, so unless you make motorists automatically liable under law or blatantly carry a large bomb with you, as a cyclist you’re relying on a combination of compassion / consideration and basic observational / spatial skills, something quite a few drivers conspicuously lack, commuters in particular.

    Anyway, my anecdotal observation on shared use paths is that wearing a bright checked shirt elicits more positive greetings etc than the same bike ridden in Lycra or just mountain bike gear. Ride an e-cargo bike loaded with shopping down our local tow-path and walkers virtually hug and kiss you as you pass.

    Also, I’ve found a lot of motorists more likely to hang back if you use a bright rear flasher. The Exposure TraceR with the Reakt stuff is ace for that, presumably because the pattern varies and it confuses them…

    DrJ
    Full Member

    We seem to have a cultural dislike of hi viz jackets and the people who wear them.

    Tory leaders you mean ?

    poly
    Free Member

    The parallel was that working as a motorcycle in courier in that London also elicited a certain amount of ‘respect’, which was probably fear for their bodywork.  Cyclists rank pretty low on the scale of actual threat to cars, so unless you make motorists automatically liable under law or blatantly carry a large bomb with you, as a cyclist you’re relying on a combination of compassion / consideration and basic observational / spatial skills, something quite a few drivers conspicuously lack, commuters in particular.

    im not convinced by that – my bike, and I, will make significant damage to the bodywork of any car I hit.  Even a glancing blow from a pedal / bar-end or taking a wing mirror off probably costs more to fix than the fine you alluded to m/cycle cops potentially imposing.  Your sub conscious “calculation” doesn’t include the delay to the drivers journey which must be a factor even if it is only to get out and check no damage done.

    I suspect the subconscious and conscious decisions of which m/cycles to allow through are not about fines but something much more subtle.  Thats the sort of thing this research was trying to understand.    I think the humanisation scale is flawed – it stops at 100% human, but people are culturally reluctant to score anything as 100% – to understand the significance of the scale you would need to reference against other examples, and understand what people mean by “not human” – after all about 10% of my total mass as a “cyclist” is not human – it’s bike.

    The study is a bit odd.  The pictures don’t show people on bikes, rather standing beside them.  They only show one orientation with reasonable eye contact to the camera.  What do sunglasses do to perception? What does the rear view do?  What do different styles of bike / riding position do?   Different ages of rider? Shape/style of helmet etc.  the Lycra examples they include show some of that but are attributed to being Lycra. Obviously this is an “initial” study, from an unrepresentative self selecting group but whilst it sets out to answer a “why” question it does it with this rather unusual concept of “dehumanising” but without really establishing what that means in the minds of participants which is probably dangerous to then draw conclusions on – are they understanding drivers attitudes to cyclists or psychology participants attitudes to the word human?

    but they should probably be congratulated for doing the study and asking the questions because that will likely stimulate others to replicate with improved studies which might make design of bikes / clothing / transport infrastructure / policy / driver education more effective.

    a study using simulators would be interesting, it would be easy to randomly swap the cyclist, but I don’t really care “why” just how to “mitigate”.

    2
    Bunnyhop
    Full Member

    It’s a bit hilly where we live, otherwise I’d be wearing a full flowing skirt or dress Maybe a helmet disguised as a bonnet) and ride a Pendleton style bike, with a wicker basket, then wobble all over the road. This would be a lot safer than the riding gear which is needed for comfort.

    ayjaydoubleyou
    Full Member

    Anyway, my anecdotal observation on shared use paths is that wearing a bright checked shirt elicits more positive greetings etc than the same bike ridden in Lycra or just mountain bike gear.

    This does add to the nuance of what “hi vis” actually entails. the article and most commenters have assumed its a low cost loose polyester luminous green vest added over your outfit.

    But you can acheive high visibilty with a number of outfits.Just wearing colours can be good in daytime. Does anyone have one of those reflective white coats for commuting? They look ace for a mud free environment.

    My perception (and remeber this is coming from a cyclist) is that:

    flappy hi vis vest and no helmet – former drunk driver on his way to labour on a building site. possibly pissed, unlikely to follow the highway code. bike in poor state of repair so unlikely to brake or turn correctly.

    flappy hi vis vest and helmet – worlds most boring man approaching. The sort of person who can engage you in an hour long one way conversation about the longevity of 7 vs 8 speed chains based on their extensive research. Acutely aware of the highway code (and can even quote the clauses) but with no common sense, will take the right hand lane on a busy urban dual carrigeway with a perfect hand signal.

    ayjaydoubleyou
    Full Member

    But to add to that, as a cyclist I (and presumably all of us) can spot a good cyclist just by watching them ride. Ok that doesnt determine if they are going to follow the rules or suddenly U-turn and bunnyhop a kerb, but we can see that they are competent and able to ride in control right?

    Thats why it really grates when you see an actor who very clearly can’t on TV.

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    will take the right hand lane on a busy urban dual carrigeway with a perfect hand signal.

    Depends if there’s a viable alternative

    ayjaydoubleyou
    Full Member

    Depends if there’s a viable alternative

    fair enough comment.

    how much of a detour would you take to avoid doing such a thing?

    this isn’t a “we should know our place and stay in the left gutter” its a “I’m aware of how drivers arelikely to react (or not react) and will take steps for my own safety”

    ossify
    Full Member

    I have read somewhere (can’t remember where or how reliable) that the best performing piece of safety equipment for a cyclist to make motorists keep their distance is simply a big high-vis sticker with the camera symbol. No actual camera necessary.

    im not convinced by that – my bike, and I, will make significant damage to the bodywork of any car I hit.  Even a glancing blow from a pedal / bar-end or taking a wing mirror off probably costs more to fix than the fine you alluded to m/cycle cops potentially imposing.  Your sub conscious “calculation” doesn’t include the delay to the drivers journey which must be a factor even if it is only to get out and check no damage done.

    I dunno, I can well believe it. Pretty convincing IMO.

    Thinking about damage resulting from a collision or delay to the journey time (beyond “there’s a cyclist in the way”) is a conscious thing. Seeing a police vehicle and thinking “oh bugger, better be careful” is much more instinctive.

    See also people hiding their phones when the police come past, not parking on school yellow zigzags, etc etc. High consequences are possible and half a second’s thought will tell you this, but it’s simply police rolling past in the opposite lane that make people scramble and hide (amusing to see, sometimes. In a sad sort of way).

    poly
    Free Member

    I dunno, I can well believe it. Pretty convincing IMO.

    Thinking about damage resulting from a collision or delay to the journey time (beyond “there’s a cyclist in the way”) is a conscious thing. Seeing a police vehicle and thinking “oh bugger, better be careful” is much more instinctive.

    Oh, I wasn’t disputing people behave better when they are aware (or think) the cops are around, it was that motorcycle couriers get more respect because they will cause more damage than a bike that I was questionning.

    1
    BadlyWiredDog
    Full Member

    im not convinced by that – my bike, and I, will make significant damage to the bodywork of any car I hit.

    I don’t think most drivers really consider that with cyclists. They’re so far outside their padded, air-conditioned padded armoured box that cyclists might as well be ants would be my take.

    1
    TiRed
    Full Member

    Nothing gets you space like 1) a kiddyback tandem with a baby seat on the back and “baby on board” sign, or 2) a recumbent tricycle with flag. I’ve never had a close pass on either, although the former was some time ago. The recumbent gets thumbs up from white van man, phone videos out of the passenger window and generally a lot of love. Probably a WTF is that response, but it’s seen. Of course I ride with three rear lights too.

    BadlyWiredDog
    Full Member

     it was that motorcycle couriers get more respect because they will cause more damage than a bike that I was questionning.

    All I can tell you – anecdotally obviously – is that riding a matt-blacked courier bike with panniers, with an apparent disregard for the rider’s safety meant that most drivers tried quite hard to get out of your way. I was young and indestructible and quite stupid at the time, but also very good at riding bikes/reading the road, which is what happens when you ride a bike eight hours a day, five days a week. My control group – me, not riding a courier bike – found drivers rather less amenable.

    I guess some of that could have been down to the carefully-cultivated ‘mad dog’ despatch rider image that went with the times – it was a long time ago – but either way, I’d suggest the common factor was seeing the bike/rider as a tangible threat of some kind.

    My point is that cyclists really aren’t ‘threatening’ when you’re sat in a metal box, so treating them with respect becomes a more discretionary thing, which relies on some sort of basic humanity and empathy, both things that seem to be left at home when some people get into their cars. And I guess the flip-side is that it’s easier to be empathetic / sympathetic to someone who looks like a person rather than Lance Armstrong or Darth Vader.

    poly
    Free Member

    The recumbent gets thumbs up from white van man, phone videos out of the passenger window and generally a lot of love. Probably a WTF is that response, but it’s seen. Of course I ride with three rear lights too.

    Know someone with a KMX, who overheard a lady tell her son to keep out of the way of the man in the wheelchair…  they probably think you are a war hero raising money for charity in your special bike…

    All I can tell you – anecdotally obviously – is that riding a matt-blacked courier bike with panniers, ridden with an apparent disregard for the rider’s safety meant that most drivers tried quite hard to get out of your way.

    Was it loud?

    My point is that cyclists really aren’t ‘threatening’ when you’re sat in a metal box, so treating them with respect becomes a more discretionary thing, which relies on some sort of basic humanity and empathy, both things that seem to be left at home when some people get into their cars. And I guess the flip-side is that it’s easier to be empathetic / sympathetic to someone who looks like a person rather than Lance Armstrong or Darth Vader.

    My suspicion is “we” are more tolerant of people who are using the roads for “work” or “commuting”* but feel that people who might be adding to the traffic whilst having fun are a problem.  Caravans, Tourists, Cyclists, Motorbikes, Sportscars, perhaps even School runs…

    * As most people think cycling to work is mad – clearly you can’t be commuting on a bike; that makes you a weirdo who’s doing it for fun.

    slowoldman
    Full Member

    “Schroeder’s cyclist.”

    Schrödinger’s cyclist.

    Unknown

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    “Schroeder’s cyclist.”

    Schrödinger’s cyclist

    Dammit.

    therevokid
    Free Member

    interesting – hi viz and lid on the motorcycle and some cars move over to let me by,others just hold their line.  hi viz and lid on the mtb and nearly all cars move over to block me going past !

    dyna-ti
    Full Member

    will take the right hand lane on a busy urban dual carriageway with a perfect hand signal.

    I only really use the right turning hand signal, as left isnt needed as im forced to ride in the gutter for the most part.

    And of course that other hand signal that shows displeasure to inconsiderate road users.

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    I only really use the right turning hand signal, as left isnt needed as im forced to ride in the gutter for the most part.

    Primary approaching a junction?

    (Wink emoji here)

    imnotverygood
    Full Member

    My control group – me, not riding a courier bike – found drivers rather less amenable.

    I guess some of that could have been down to the carefully-cultivated ‘mad dog’ despatch rider image that went with the times – it was a long time ago – but either way, I’d suggest the common factor was seeing the bike/rider as a tangible threat of some kind.

    I would agree with that 100%. One of the scariest rides I ever did was when a friend asked me to ride a 125cc L/plated bike after he bought it – it was as if I was invisible.  One of the skills of being a courier was definitely being able to intimidate other traffic.

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