Tell me about using touring ski setup on piste

Need to get some new ski boots soon as the current ones are gubbed. I’ve been toying with the idea of getting touring skis for many years and am wondering if now is the time.
Been alpine skiing about 25 years and would say I’m a strong intermediate level*. Not doing a huge amount these days, perhaps 6-12 days per year. Mainly ski with the family.
Focussed on off piste where possible.

Been meaning to get into touring at some point before I die, but don’t actually have a plan to do so. And given the dangers of off piste I’m not sure if I ever will unless I convince the wife to purchase or find some accomplices.

Anyway, back to the point, was wondering whether I should get a freeride orientated setup like the one miles down the page here:
Equipment for Freeride ski tourers
https://www.sport-conrad.com/blog/en/ski-touring-guide-find-the-best-skis-for-your-next-ski-tour/
And then at least I’ll have the kit ready for when the opportunity arises. And it should be OK for alpine skiing in the meantime.

Seems more sensible than blowing £400 on new boots now and then having to buy the touring kit from scratch in a year or two.

( also torn on whether to buy a new snowboard setup too. Rode with my son yesterday and rediscovered how good it is) But only got room for one set in the luggage, so forget boarding just now.

But then is the any point in a freeride orientated setup? If I find like-minded people in the UK, will they all be on hideously lightweight gear, and thus the freeride kit will be too heavy….

Anyway, anyone use touring kit on piste? Is it too compromised?
Once you got it did you find options opening up to use it?

* By intermediate, I mean genuinely intermediate, rather than ” ok on red runs, might struggle down a black or two”

The link you’ve included shows that “touring set-up” covers a wide range of options.. it’s a bit like “mountain biking” and everything is a spectrum.

I’d call myself a good intermediate skier as well – but I’m in Canada where you can’t move for former ski racers and patrollers. I can get down most stuff up to and including double blacks in reasonable condition; last year I skied 35 days between resort and touring. I find that the very good skiers make anything work anywhere but I need all the help I can get.

My touring set-up is definitely more towards the “touring” side of the equation – tech bindings; dynafit radical boots and 95mm skis. I don’t like skiing on piste in this set-up more than I have to and it’s mostly the boots. Even if they have the same stiffness they just don’t have the same level of confidence and solid feeling as a proper DH boot. Having said that I have a good friend who’s a former pro-patroller who only skis in Technia Concise and never has any problems.

I’ve only toured a couple of times with people with the SHIFT bindings and they do take a bit of adjustment in the transitions. It’s not a seamless as a tech binding.

Personally I’m very much a right tool for the job person but I have that luxury. I do think that if you get a set-up mostly for piste skiing with a “just in case” touring then it’s going to ski okay on piste but, as you say, it’s not going to be great for big tours. However there’s far more slack country in the Alps than Canada where we mostly touring away from the resorts so something “just-in-case” might work better in Europe.

I think you touch on the challenge to be honest which is finding others. Say you get touring gear who are you touring with? The people I tour with all have roughly the same philosophy and risk tolerance so we’re all on similar gear.

Like anything it depends where on the spectrum you want to aim for – and that’s both in terms of gear and terrain. That’s the hard part – be honest where you will actually spend your time. All day tours, hut to hut with peaks? Or the odd 20 minute skin to get to some good stuff?

For me, resort time is limited and when I am there I buy a pass and want to smash out the runs. I’ll also be mostly with family, so time is too precious to spend on all day tours – and a lift pass has been purchased! So my next setup will be ‘freeride’ – capable of short skins when with a guide but handle the rest – probably Salomon Shift bindings.

Lightweight tech gear is not right choice for day to day resort skiing, it’s like riding an XC race hardtail in the Peak – it’ll work but be a compromise most of the time. You want a proper release binding with some elasticity and the safety that comes with it and a heavier ski that can grip and bust through crud where weight isn’t so important.

Boots can work for all rounders – more so than skis – why not start with some good all mountain boots with tech inserts? If you want your own skis get some gripwalk compatible bindings on them for resort, and then hire whatever takes your fancy for a day here and there? Fresh pow, get a 100+ with Shifts, late season get a silly light setup and go do some vert.

I’ve got a few of those set-ups in the cupboard, some are mine, some belong to junior, one to Madame. I’ll start with his set up as it’s the closest to what you’re after. He uses it for his ESF guiding work which depending on the ability of the clients is from new to off-piste to couloirs that don’t require axe or crampons (because that’s the mountain guide’s perogative).

So: Fisher travers boots, Head Kore 90something skis with Marker kingpin 12 bindings (which he winds up as far as they will go for steep hard snow), about 2.5kg per ski. They’re ace! I’m too light for the Kores so have to work quite hard but they’re great on or off piste at any speed. My reference point on piste is Head Raptor boots and Dynastar 64 Omeglas slalom skis and the Kores don’t shock in comparison, however the Fisher boots are a lot more supple than the Raptors, I’d go for a stiffer boot if I wanted to spend a whole day on piste.

I’ve still got my race set: Dynafit TLT boots and 165 Atomic MX11 skis with LowTech bindings and short mohair skins. They go great uphill and are frankly a liability downhill. The skis have a deep chamber which means they have a mind of their own until loaded up in a turn. In powder they have naff all float, in clag they spring around and on hard stuff they aren’t easy to control. The springs on the front part of the binding are too soft and the ski has popped off a few times on rough snow. Half the weight of the Kores, shit on piste and everywhere else, but fast.

I also raced on Elan Alaska 79s when I reckoned I’d probably hurt myself on the MX11s. They’re a wood core ski which does everything a lot better. I still use them in Spring snow.

Current go everywhere skis are Blizzard Black Pearl 88 women’s skis, because I weigh what many women skiers weigh. They’re a piste/all mountain ski I’ve put some old but reliable Dynafit tech bindings on – they ski a lot like the Head Kores but are more suited to my weight. Excellent.

Madame has some Fisher 80 something piste skis with Marker F10 bindings so we can use piste boots with them. The whole set up is very heavy but is every bit as good as a dedicated piste set on piste – and excellent off piste too – if you’ve got the energy to get it all up the hill.

Verdict: A good freeride ski such as the Head kore, Marker Kingpin or F10 bindings, a touring boot that’s not too supple – you’ll have a ball on or off piste.

I have 3 touring setups (well, 4 if you count the telemarks).

My heaviest setup consists of Lange XT Free 130 boots, Dynafit ST rotation bindings and Line Sir Francis Bacon (108 underfoot). I think it’s awesome as an all-round ski setup for someone who spends most of their time off piste. It probably gets used 80% of the time for lift-accessed skiing, but does get used for touring when conditions are right such as this https://www.strava.com/activities/6347376768

The only real downside is when you’re using lifts where you have to take the skis off and put them back on again as it does take a bit longer to get the bindings to engage, even when you’re used to it. If it’s all chairlifts then no problem!

Ha Ha you are in the holy grail territory of finding the perfect set up to cover everything. These days it is possible to get close I think, there is some fantastic kit about.

My current set up is a La Sportiva Spectre boot. 1400g each, 4 buckle and around a 120 flex.

Skis are Elan Ripstick 94, about 1600g each

Binding is a Fritschi Vipec gen 2, about 600 ish with brakes.

In the past I have had all sorts – superlight powder sticks, Scott superguide 95s, Black crows Navis 106, Dynastar Carbon 97’s. They have all been great but the Ripsticks I have now are by a country mile the best all round ski i’ve had –  they are awesome in powder and hard conditions off piste, and absolutely rock on anything but icey piste. They are light enough to push uphill all day. These are the first skis ive had 3 seasons and have no intention of changing for the forseeable

The vipec tech binding has been excellent really, ive had a couple of different generations, all have worked really well and the earlier foibles they had have been worked out.  They ski well and are easy to transisition. The lateral release toe is reassuring when you are really hooning about on piste. You could ditch the brakes to save weight but meh.

Boots are personal of course, the spectres I love and are plenty stiff for me at 75kg.

my skiing consist of probably 80% touring, 20% inbounds.  The sweetspot for me is a mid 90’s ski, somewhere around the 1500g mark. Worth pointing out that the lighter skis ive had are not very robust – thinner bases etc to lose weight and consequently I have trashed skis quite easily. Having used skis over 100 wide, personally theyre just too big for pushing up hill. They probably won’t fit in a euro skin track either! But if you want the float….

more info here, these guys are great if you are near Otley https://www.backcountryuk.com//blog/how-to-chose-your-backcountry-ski/

https://www.backcountryuk.com//blog/how-to-choose-which-ski-touring-and-backcountry-binding-is-best-for-you/

I’d advise against using a pin binding on piste. People do it, but you don’t get the same release characteristics or damped ride feel.

Salomon Shifts are absolutely fine for everything though and give a much better (easier) ride feel than pins – there isn’t really any compromise unless you’re worried about 200g. I’d go for that. There’s a great Blister podcast with Cody Townsend where they go though the design.

Be aware of boot/bing compatability – touring soles vs gripwalk vs classic alpine norm. Most modern bindings are compatible but not all.

Be aware of boot/bing compatability – touring soles vs gripwalk vs classic alpine norm. Most modern bindings are compatible but not all.

+1

My spectres for example have loads of sole rocker and need a bit of dremmel work to release cleanly

Some good points above. In alpine skiing I’ve pretty much exclusively been on a middle of the road tech touring setup (as described by your link) for about a decade. I haven’t really been on piste/in resort much in that time, but for me the weakest points of a tech setup like this is really hard or exceptionally heavy conditions on piste where a stiffer and heavier setup would offer more. This could just be perception and the reality is my declining ability. Other than in the park, where to me it just doen’t feel right, ever.

I’m pretty lightweight and distinctly average up and down, but for me the current setup works as an allround compromise for all sorts of outings over varied terrain and snow conditions and can happily doss about on piste with the family. If I expected to spend more time on lifts than I do then I’d go for a wider/stiffer/heavier setup, but not crazily so.

Whatever ski touring bindings you choose carry something like a Swiss Army knife in you pocket for clearing out the ice. This is especially important with complex bindings such as the Marker F10 and Salomon Shifts. I’ve “rescued” someone walking down a mountain with iced up bindings he couldn’t do anything with.

In terms of feel the Marker Kingpin pin binding feels the same as a piste binding but I agree the bindings with pins both front and rear allow more flex. In terms of release reliability I’ve had more problems with pin bindings releasing when they shouldn’t than not releasing when they should.

Buy what you’re going to use.

Spending money on shiny kit that doesn’t get used, and who’s very presence is a reminder of that, will play heck with your general motivation

Modern touring kit is absolutely fine on piste. Contrary to the comments about pin bindings I’ve used them extensively on piste and know lots of others who have done even more with no issues. Or at least no more issues than with a standard DH binding.

A pin binding saves you a lot of weight allowing you to get a heavier ski or boot with the same total weight.

As others have said though it depends on exactly what you will be doing. The trick is to be honest about intended use and your own abilities i.e. few people really need super burly boots and a binding that goes up to din 14.

Ski wise, I think the sweet spot for mixed use is about 90-100 underfoot, others will say more but I think the number of days you’ll benefit from wider are pretty few, especially if you’re going to use them in the UK too. It’s always funny looking at touring planks outside a hut, you can virtually guarantee that the fattest set of planks will belong to Brits, the people least likely to get a lot of use out of them!

you can virtually guarantee that the fattest set of planks will belong to Brits, the people least likely to get a lot of use out of them!

Nah, the people least likely to have learnt to ski powder on skis that were 64 underfoot and enjoy snow up to their knees. British ski tourers do tend to be on the heavy side too and need the width. 😉

Edit: At 65kg I probably get as much float/lift (how would you translate “portance” in a skiing context?) from 165/64 slalom skis as some people on this thread on 185/88.

Loads of great input, thanks all.

be honest where you will actually spend your time. All day tours, hut to hut with peaks? Or the odd 20 minute skin to get to some good stuff?

Definitely the latter. I’ve got some weird skin condition that means a daily shower is essential, so no more huts and wild camping for me.
Thinking about it more, yes it’s definitely to find the occasional stache of good snow that I want them. Not for haute route or anything like that.

And quite happy to sacrifice on piste ability if necessary. I’d much rather do one excellent deep line than a day on piste

You want a proper release binding with some elasticity and the safety that comes with it and a heavier ski that can grip and bust through crud where weight isn’t so important.

Defo

the odd 20 minute skin to get to some good stuff

In that case, you could just get whatever freeride skis and alpine bindings you want, slap a dynafit toe piece in front of the alpine bindings and use the alpine toe piece as a heel riser. Tricky in deep snow and you’d have to stick to steep skin tracks, but it’s an option!

From:https://www.backcountryuk.com/footwear/ski-boots/scarpa-4-quattro-sl__932

the binding compatibility of Grip Walk (will clip into any modern alpine downhill binding)

Hmmm. Does this mean they’d fit on my current skis/ binding?

Not got the skis handy, but the bindings are perhaps 8 years old

Yes, is the short answer. Before Grip Walk you needed an Alpine binding with a sliding plate to stop the Vibram rubber sole sticking and screwing up the DIN rating, and height adjustment on the toe part of the binding to get the boot in. I successfully used some recent Marker and even 15-year-old Look alpine bindings with pre-Grip Walk touring boots. With Grip Walk they’ve made the boot to classic alpine binding dimensions without sticky rubber where it mates with the toe of the binding.

Depends where you tour. It always used to be said that if skiing in Scotland then get the lightest setup possible as you’ll mainly be carrying it.
If you’re not doing multi day tours weight may matter less as pushing uphill and breakable crust for several days makes you wish for lighter skis as your either going up or pulling them out of the snow again! If you’re more likely to tour single days when you can pick conditions the maybe err towards ones you want for the majority of your lift served skiing and MTFU for an occasional long skin up, you can take it easy the following day.
Also should say tours in Scotland can be amazing but also can be total washouts with total survival navigation and long carries. Good days have been as good as the Alps.
NB not skied much for a few years so no idea what gear is up to date.

Have a look at quiver killer inserts for fitting your bindings as well. Gives you the option of sticking your downhill bindings on if you are just going to be on piste, and generally let’s you swap easier.

@thegeneralist – what size are you?
We have 2 pairs of lightly used touring boots – Scarpa Freedom and Technica cochise being the other
…..

Size 28.5.
But very narrow feet, so was thinking if buying thermo formable ones.

What you got?

Been on Dynafit bindings exclusively for about 8-10 years now. Mix of piste and touring but only day tours. My boots are not super lightweight touring slippers and my skis are normal Black Crows all mountain (not their touring range) – the set up is a nice compromise for me.

I have the Cochise 130, probably should have gone 120 but couldn’t get that at the time.
They are approx 100mm last which is too narrow for me but may suit TG. The ones I have are heat mouldable.
They are great on piste and done a week of hut based day touring in them and they were great.
Had Garmont before, they were great until the main pivot rivet fixings kept breaking.

Skis, true to my form, I bought cheap used off Ebay for some plate Frischi bindings which are now outdated but work fine, they were on a pair of Rosi Legend, but put them onto pair of big Nordica NXT. They are a blast for everything but hard piste. I have other skis for that though.

Pin bindings and piste skiing, keep an eye on the width of the ski and the rise of the binding.. If you are into cranking it out on piste and you have limited boot clearance, you are going to boot out on the inside edge and loose the edge..

There is some real cowboy advice on binding compatability and safety coming into play here.

OP, if you aren’t sure about boot/binding combo amd can’t find a correct answer in the manual, please talk to a trained tech for the sake of your knees.

1. Buy the boots that fit your feet best and spend a morning at a bootfitter having them adjusted. 100-200g a foot is neither here nor there unless you’re racing patrolled des glaciers in comparison to being comfortable skiing and walking. Scott make wide, technica medium, dynafit narrower. Scarpa wide but low volume. Random suggestion: Hoji Frees or similar.

2. Buy lightweight piste skis. If you’re not skiing often, buy forgiving lightweight piste skis in about your head height. Suggestion: Elan Ripstick 106’s (as you said you care more about experience off piste). Also consider: Salomon QST 106’s at the more forgiving end.

3. Fit pin bindings with brakes and as much heel elasticity as possible. The gold standard here would be ATK FR 14’s with the fr heel spacer. One heavier would be tectons. Don’t buy kingpins. You could buy shifts but if you’re not jumping off cliffs they aren’t worth the weight. If you want to save weight, this is where to do it – buy Marker Alpinists. The brakes are shit but they’re the best skiing light Binding. If you need an alpine binding, just rent skis that fit WTR / Gripwalk.

You see all sorts around the UK – loads still on frame bindings, kingpins, 90s skis, whatever. Very few people on stupid skimo setups as there just isn’t the vert for it.

The only exception to the above is probably if you book yourself onto a haute route or something just rent some lighter skis.

@thegeneralist
He thinks the scarpas are 29.5 but will check to make sure. Both are fairly narrow and both are moldable.
Mine ski boots on the other hand are 21.5. Try finding them in ski shops 🙁

We’ve got some Marker Alpinists. They only go up to 8 on lateral release and the forward release is a choice of two u-bars which are soft and very soft. They’re fine for Madame at 55kg, OK for me at 65kg but junior would ski them off his feet on the second or third turn. Light bindings for light skiers.

Curious why you advise against Kingpins? And Shifts aren’t just for freeriders. The Kingpins work for powerful and/or heavy skiers who don’t want to lose a ski and Shifts anyone who wants an totally relible release (Marker F10 too). IMO the bindings are the last place to save weight not the first, losing a ski in the wrong place can be life threatening.

When you’re looking down some steep icy stuff with rock to hit if you fall you’ll look around and see people locking out the toe of light bindings because they’ve decided the biggest risk is a ski coming off.

Just had a look at all the Bindings in the cupboard. The Kingpins go up to 13 not 12 as I wrongly stated. Dynafits and F10 go up to 10 and the Alpinists are 8.

Saw a neat system in Fall Line magazine. It makes the toe piece changeable/ swappable to a pin-tech without tools and adds flick up ramps at the heel. You can use with existing pivot or marker bindings. I’ll look it up later.
Edit. http://Www.Casttouring.com

Ta for that, theDTs. The extra weight of the toe piece is in the rucksac on the way up where you’ll hardly notice it. Good idea.

Not the point “educator” Alpine toe piece for resort days, pin-tech for days out of resort.

Might take a drive over to Otley next week…

Trying to work out where I could buy some old skins…

Buy new boots and bindings, get the bindings fitted to current skis ( Line Prophets)

If I could get some skins then might be set up without breaking the bank…

Facewest.