like most law abiding citizens pays a lot of tax back to this country

Are you actually serious….?

I worked as a contractor a few years ago, where I was seen as a lunatic by other contractors, for not avoiding tax, through creative accounting…

In the context of believing tabloid headlines, it seems The Guardian are somewhat on point today…

I’ll just leave this here

Here Are 5 Undeniable Signs That You Are Arguing With A Sociopath

there seems be a real hatred of people owning money on the site, why ?

No there isn’t. There’s a hatred of just ill thought out regurgitated tabloid outrage, that’s all.

Nickc +1

not that I’m rich by any means but there seems be a real hatred of people owning money on the site, why ?

There is a dislike of people who are selfish and have a strange set of priorities and a complete lack of empathy. This thread highlights those people very well.

It has nothing to do with money. A lot of lefties on this forum are clearly not poor (me included), you don’t have to be poor to be able to empathise and more importantly support polices that help less fortunate people.

I can actually see a situation where (assuming there are lots of empty properties owned by rich folk- there may not be as many as people think) a rich person who voluntarily decides to help people who’ve been burnt out of their homes might be allowed the market rent as a tax right off (a charitable gift – get me a tax expert to check the details there).

Rich folk still get the capital gain, also get a tax credit and burnt out to the streets people get a roof.

Assuming that rich folk have a sense of doing the right thing (with a small financial nudge).

Is the only incientive that stands a chance working to give tax breaks to the rcih to encourage them?

There are people out there who can’t even afford a bicycle. (maybe someone stole theirs?) How about lending one of these poor unfortunates one of your 5k bikes (conservative estimate) that is sitting in the garage doing nowt.

Instead of putting more money in to Hope’s coffers by adorning your bike with fancy coloured adornments, how about donating that money to a worthy cause?

Same with your second car or another one of your expensive electrical gizmos. Is Nescafe really that bad?

I had to work hard for these trinkets would be a standard response but you still have comparative riches beyond the reach of some, just not on the same scale as those faceless oligarchs .

How many bikes does Jezza own, anyway? Typical, bike-hogging champagne socialist. 😆

Edukator – I’m just thinking of something faster, cheaper, and shorter term that CPO.
Common decency might be a better situation, but I haven’t heard of folk rushing forward with accommodation on that basis.
You make a reasonable point – I’m just avoiding it with my solution.

It’s ok in theory, but we all know that if this happens the council won’t then re-home them due to budget cuts, lack of available suitable properties etc. How long will the properties be needed for? What if once in they don’t want to move again? Imagine losing your home in this horrific fire then getting evicted because the council won’t/can’t re-home you, you’ve nowhere to go and the owner wants their property back.
Are there enough empty properties anyway?

Are there enough empty properties anyway?

i didn’t expect this post to turn into a hatred or attacking post.

Did you read your post? 😯 😆

Did you read your post?

I aired my views and yes it wasn’t well thought out or written with any real research.

Seems he did.

One point I’d like to make as a taxpayer is that I dont think compulsory purchase orders and paying current London market rate is the best use of public money.

I’d think most of these properties would cost millions of pounds where as a hotel room for a year might cost say £182,500 (£500 per night x 365)

I’m with you Op.

I mean how dare they take away our property! A sign of a thriving neo-liberal capatalist society is protecting the winners right?

Poor people need to try harder don’t they. For example, even if they’re poor because they’re disabled and the state hasn’t provided enough for them so they’ve ended up in sub-standard properties – doesn’t mean I should feel sorry for them.

Why should I, who have worked hard and had luck bestowed upon me by my parents, let some poor famlies live in my empty home. 79 people dead in a tower block fire – not our problem is it.

This country really needs to stop thinking about others. Choices right. That’s why I vote Tory and read the Daily Mail like you. They undertsand us.

Nickc has summed it up beautifully.

Taking a step back for a minute, this forum seems to attract people who’d go out of their way to help folk out – Binners once arranged for me to have a frame powder coated and did the fetching/carrying/postage. I’ve seen countless other forumites step in to help out people who’ve had bikes stolen or needed a helping hand fixing things. I’d like to think that I’d go out of my way to help out anyone here simply because it feels good to help someone else out.

What I don’t understand is why this spirit of generosity suddenly becomes mean-mindedness when we’re talking about residents of a tower block which burned down through no fault of those who lived there. Surely it makes sense to temporarily house them in the hundreds of unoccupied properties elsewhere in the borough, where residents’ kids go to school and close to where people work? If I were a politician, I too would be asking questions as to why the local council can’t make use of those properties, whilst making appropriate compensation to the properties owners.

Crack on Jezzer

not that I’m rich by any means but there seems be a real hatred of people owning money on the site, why ?

What I’m seeing is a dislike of selfish sociopaths.

PJM it would make perfect sense for them to be offered spare rooms by home owners. What Corbyn suggested was pure and simple “class warfare” he wanted to confiscate property.

Who on earth would decide a property was empty anyway ? Some lefty walking past and sees no lights on so he “occupies” it ? Thats what Corbyn was suggesting.

Purchasing (compulsory or not) private property would costs £10,000’s in legal fees fighting challenges and 100,000’s in stamp duty per property.

Thats what Corbyn was suggesting.

#jambafact no. 1376.

But fine to sell someones property to fund health care in their senior years?

PJM it would make perfect sense for them to be offered spare rooms by home owners.

Point taken. Do we have any kind of idea how many absent residents of Kensington have done exactly this?

What Corbyn suggested was pure and simple “class warfare” he wanted to confiscate property.

Class warfare. I’m really pleased that someone has brought this up. I would argue that re-cladding the tower block at minimal expense and maximum risk to occupants in order to beautify the views of millionaire residents counts as class warfare.

Aside from pulling apart the semantics of Corbyn’s comments and hysterically jumping to conclusions, how would you deal with the resulting human cost of the Grenfell Tower fire, @jambalaya?

I’d imagine right wing nutjobs want them out of the borough in case there’s another election soon – only a very slim majority y’know.

PJM it would make perfect sense for them to be offered spare rooms by home owners. What Corbyn suggested was pure and simple “class warfare” he wanted to confiscate property.

Who on earth would decide a property was empty anyway ? Some lefty walking past and sees no lights on so he “occupies” it ? Thats what Corbyn was suggesting.

He’s flipped!

Please stop quoting him, it means his posts evade the killfile

without savings or owning properties what incentive is there to work ?

I’m fairly certain this was what the aristocrats were telling the French poor on the eve of the French revolution.

You could use that argument to apologise for the most extreme cases of wealth inequality, eg North Korea.

No Zokes, I won’t.

You may not like what he has to say – but he has a right to say it & ive the right to quote it & reply to it.

So, sorry I won’t. You’ll have to add me to the list if you don’t want to read what he’s written.

Which, I think, would be a shame as I think it’s important to know what the other side are thinking otherwise you’re just in a bubble…& that’s not healthy for any discussion.

Ransos +1

What Corbyn suggested was pure and simple “class warfare” he wanted to confiscate property.

No he doesn’t. He’s on about using unused property as a temporary shelter instead of leaving people in sports halls.

without savings or owning properties what incentive is there to work ?

eating, clothing, and putting a roof over your head are fairly good incentives.

oldracer – Member
I think it’s important to know what the other side are thinking otherwise you’re just in a bubble…& that’s not healthy for any discussion.

It is, but, when it’s just trolling and obfuscation, well, there’s not much point.

The “well would you lend someone your £5k bike if theirs was knicked ” argument is fine if your £5k bike was bought purely as an investment, you have no intention of riding it, and lending it to someone else won’t damage it or decrease its value in any way. Oh and you’d be guaranteed to get it back after an agreed time period.
If any one of those things doesn’t apply then it’s a load of bollocks that misses the point entirely.

It would also be fine if shelter was a luxury not a necessity.

It is, but, when it’s just trolling and obfuscation, well, there’s not much point.

I’m not sure he is trolling – I think he genuinely believes in what he says, which is why you do have to have a degree of engagement.

Like I said, if you do t like my engaging with him…add me to the list.

But then, where would we be? When we’re censoring opinions we find upsetting or challenging…..for that reason I’m against a kilfile & why I’ll never use one.

oldracer – Member
It is, but, when it’s just trolling and obfuscation, well, there’s not much point.
I’m not sure he is trolling – I think he genuinely believes in what he says, which is why you do have to have a degree of engagement.

Like I said, if you do t like my engaging with him…add me to the list.

But then, where would we be? When we’re censoring opinions we find upsetting or challenging…..for that reason I’m against a kilfile & why I’ll never use one

I don’t censor anyone. honest discussion is fine, I’ve tried it many times. But what’s the point in discussing with trolls that are just out to get a rise? I’m also pretty certain his whole online persona is a pile of keek as well.

What Corbyn suggested was pure and simple “class warfare” he wanted to confiscate property.

No he didn’t. That might be want you want him to have suggested, but it wasn’t. You’re reading meaning into things that simply isn’t there.

Who on earth would decide a property was empty anyway ? Some lefty walking past and sees no lights on so he “occupies” it ?

Irrelevant whataboutery as that’s not what he was suggesting. And even if he was I imagine there are numerous sensible ways to work out if a property is empty, for example looking at records of who owns it, who/if lives there and for how long it’s been vacant.

Thats what Corbyn was suggesting.

Again, no it wasn’t. You have misinterpreted, likely due to your own bias clouding your judgement, or due to you taking some propaganda at face value without actually looking at what actually happened. Now the error has been pointed out to you do the decent thing and review your interpretation.

If you still think your interpretation is correct then what exactly would sway you? If you asked JC “is this what you meant?” an he replied “No” would you still claim that your interpretation of his thoughts is correct over the man that actually said the words?

But what’s the point in discussing with trolls that are just out to get a rise? I’m also pretty certain his whole online persona is a pile of keek as well.

I’ve no idea if Jamba’s online persona is fake or not. But his views are fare from extreme in the world that is outside the STW left wing bubble. To say he must be trolling because you disagree with some of his pretty mild views is laughable really. Try meeting some of the people I do on a daily basis 😯 . Now they’ll make your hair curl. But the thing is their still just normal people.

I hold a conversation and can disagree with people all day long. I’ve no problem with that. Trolling is a different thing, it’s not engagement, it’s cheap giggles(which normally I’m also fine with, but on this, when the bodies still haven’t yet been recovered, come on, walk away from the games ffs.).