Sus on a gravel bike?

Just musing really but am in the market for a new gravel bike having sold mine and am considering building one up.

Now I stuck a shorter stem and wider drops on my old one and think it improved the ride without any downsides. I have been drawn to the Nordest Super Albarda since the pretty gb thread I started and also like the look of the Orange X9 so both are more on the mtb side than road with the X9 having 80mm Fox forks.

With the Albarda being slack for a gb and off-roady I’ve been wondering about sticking some light 100mm travel up front. Seems perfectly sensible to me, or do I just want a ht? Lol.

In all seriousness I don’t want a ht, I want a gb but am I in danger of ruining the fun?

I suppose it depends on what type of surfaces your intending to ride on and duration tbh.

You could try a lauf fork but I have a feeling they’re a bit spendy nowadays although they’re a bit marmite in the aesthetics department.

My local LBS owner (a gravel rider himself) said, when I was looking for a gravel bike, just buy a gravel bike and don’t try to buy/make it like some other bike. And then ride it on routes (mostly) suited for its build.

So I bought a gravel bike and the only real changes I made were a carbon post, tapered gravel bars and 43c’s (rather than 36c’s).

Sounds like you really want a 29er XC HT.

It will be horrible descending anything steep or remotely technical and steep on a gravel bike with the front end 100mm lower due to the fork compressing.

A dropper is a more worthwhile option IMHO.

just buy a gravel bike and don’t try to buy/make it like some other bike. And then ride it on routes (mostly) suited for its build.

this

I watched one of the Bombtrack videos on YouTube of their sponsored rider in the Dirty Reiver battling it out with a chap on a hardtail. Made me realise how fast mtbs can go even over simple gravel roads.

No reason not to push a drop bar bike towards being a mtb aka monstercross, just depends what else you want to use it for.

99% of my riding is local, linking roads, canals and BWs so I’ve gravitated to something a bit lighter and perhaps racier. If you are consistently riding over more rough terrain then suspension will undoubtedly help.

What you are describing is a lightweight XC hardtail mountain bike

When you mix a MTB and a Road bike you just end up with a compromise.
Its like paint, Black + White = Grey, not some rainbow of loveliness.

So suck up the compromise and learn to enjoy the inefficiency, uncomfortableness. Or buy a road bike and a mountain bike.

Made me realise how fast mtbs can go even over simple gravel roads.

I echo what djF says – did the KAW on hard tail with 2.0 XC race tyres and kept up happily with my friend on a gravel bike with 45mm gravel tyres. He was quicker on road (if I’d had 2x I’d have kept up, just spun out with 1x), anything flat off road we were the same in effort and speed, anything up or (esp) downhill and I was quicker and much happier than him. So in true STW (recommend what you have) I agree with sgn – a lightweight hard tail XC bike is just as good (and not as trendy so less spendy)

What you need is the catchily named Niner MCR 9 RDO
https://ninerbikes.com/pages/gravel-bikes

oh, or some Fox AX
https://www.ridefox.com/family.php?m=bike&family=32ax

I would 😛

All these people making up arbitrary rules for what certain bikes are supposed to be like. Just buy/build the bike YOU want and get on with it.

If you put some tyres with similar tread pattern on an XC MTB to those on a gravel bike there is not going to be a dramatic difference in speed as the only really difference is the bars and the ability to get into a lower position.

As I ride a bike where I can literally change bars in 2 minutes before I ride I have done a lot of riding of the same loops over many years on exactly the same bike other than the bars which are sometimes risers, sometimes drops and sometimes bullhorns. The difference in times over the loops is negligible and bigger difference can be seen by just how I am feeling on the day, weather conditions etc,.

Just ride the bike with the bars you feel most comfortable on and forget about any massive speed differences.

I had a lauf for about a year, didn’t ride the bike for a month or two and when I got back on it I realized how irrelevant they are for 90% of the sort of riding I was doing. Ended up selling them and going full rigid.

As others have said – when heading to the steep and tech stuff a dropper is far more useful. Similar weight penalty but better performance all-round.

As Kerley says, so after the dropper post, we need to converter bars.

Push a button and they go from flat to drop 🙂

I’m personally of the opinion that gravel bikes should be kept reasonably simple i.e. no suspension and/or droppers and I’m not a fan of tyres over 45mm, otherwise yeah, you might as well just use an MTB…

But that’s just me, and I also believe that there’s not actually a fixed definition of what a “Gravel bike” is (at least not yet) so owners should be able to fit whatever they want to suit them.

If you want bouncy forks OP, have them, you’d not be the first.

I’ve got one of the Niners linked above, and I love it, but as the marketing guff says, it’s not about being able to ride more technical stuff, it’s about being able to ride rubbish surfaces faster and more comfortably. And as with all things, it’s a compromise. There’s definitely an appeal to light and rigid. I’ve been riding my CX bike recently in the winter slop and it’s fun in a different way.

Personally, I wouldn’t go for a 100mm HT gravel bike, but that’s just me. Do what works for you.

I have a rigid MTB that I love riding on road and gravel. I think the reason for this is that it has what you could call gravel geometry with a 73 degree SA and 70.5 degree HA. I think this is partly why it’s so good for long distances. I have an XC FS bike that has the same geo and it is worse for distance – partly because it has a riser bar rather than a curvy one, but also because the frame is inherently more flexible and the suspension even when ‘locked out’ still moves when I stand up and pedal hard which is less pleasing. I put 100mm Rebas on the rigid bike and yes it was great descending, but it lost the solid pedalling platform which ultimately made it less satisfying, so I took them off again.

I think if you put sus forks on a gravel bike you’ll compromise it for pedalling and it’ll just be weird downhill. I think it would be possible to build up an XC MTB with suspension forks or even full suspension if you want to cover rough ground, but it would not be as good for much of the time. I think my rigid MTB with its fast 2.3s is an ideal halfway house.

Sound monstercrossy.

Broadly agree with Molgrip’s take on anything less than a solid pedalling platform. Though I would like to try out a Diverge (with Future Shock), as even with 2.1 tyres I found riding rigid forks on drop bars can very quickly become fatiguing/notsofun around rougher gravel, XC, bumpy descents. But likewise, riding long roads and tracks on flat bars is also (for me) notsofun. Only you can decide where and how you like it (and with what flavour of ‘compromise’)

I still find this whole topic really confusing.

I got through some relatively tough terrain last year on a rigid gravel bike with quite steep geometry (it’s a CX bike). I was constantly amazed at the sort of stuff I was able to ride, and I think a lot of this was down to the nimble steering, e.g. I’d literally be threading a line through the rocky bits that would just have been silly on an MTB due to the wider tyres and slower handling.

Of course, on an MTB with bigger tyres and suspension, you’d just have blasted over the top of the rocks at a higher speed, so I’m not saying the gravel bike was ‘better’, just ‘capable’ in a different way.

I’m still not sure it’s as simple as saying ‘ride a 29er with gravel tyres on it’ but I’ll be testing the theory this year as the gravel trips I’ve planned are slowly morphing in to just very long MTB routes. Which of course is the beauty of gravel, I’d never be planning 120/130km days of mixed tracks and roads on an MTB…

My buddy reckons the line between Gravel and MTB is when you think you need suspension but even this line is blurred, I did some 7-8hr gravel rides last year and never needed suspension until near the end when all the little bumps really started to fatigue hands and wrists, at which point I’d have given anything even just for a suspension stem just so I could have kept on at pace instead of having to sit up and start steering around the bumpy bits…

It’s simple for me – by the time I’d want sus on a bike I’d not want drop bars. Same for tyres over a certain size. Bars and tyres plus riding position and sus/rigid considerations all fall into classes where the bike works better imo if those classes compliment – but I get the appeal of the contradictions available too. Just not appealing from an efficient design for purpose POV.

My buddy reckons the line between Gravel and MTB is when you think you need suspension but even this line is blurred

I agree with you – I ride a rigid 29er in places or for durations that aren’t much fun on a gravel bike. Where that tipping point is is really subjective though can just depend on riding attitude that day/weekend. Suspension comes into MTB terrain and use further along that line.

TBH suspension gravel bikes are like fixed gear freestyle bikes. You can do it, some people like them but the appeal seems more in the type/class contradiction rather than the compliment.

Push a button and they go from flat to drop

I could do with that. The downside of having a bike where changing bars is so easy is that I am always swapping them and always wishing I had the other bars on!
– If going for a longer non technical ride I put the drops or bullhorns on
– If a shorter ride, more singletrack or just fancy a bit more messing about then I put risers on

It’s simple for me – by the time I’d want sus on a bike I’d not want drop bars

vs

I did some 7-8hr gravel rides last year and never needed suspension until near the end when all the little bumps really started to fatigue hands and wrists, at which point I’d have given anything even just for a suspension stem just so I could have kept on at pace instead of having to sit up and start steering around the bumpy bits…

That blurry line that doesn’t exist for some, sometimes exists for me. This thread reminds me of a bike that was at the time (pre-gravel) one of the strangest bikes I’d owned. It was a 2k (iirc) Cannondale Silk Tour. It had all the key features of those 2k CAAD(?) MTB frames – ie light, strong, good tyre clearance, headshok lockout suspension, did I say light? And yet it was essentially road touring bike. It was as swift af, but I soon let it go because couldn’t afford the fork service at the time. In retrospect I’d have liked to put it through some longer trials and with fatter tyres. Regrets, I have a few.

Same as this

Got a Cane Creek Thudbuster ST on the back of my gravel bike. Makes a noticeable difference to being able to continue to pedal over washboard and gravel surfaces without having to stand up or stop pedalling. Agree though that beyond that a dropper post would be good but don’t do enough riding on the gravel bike that would warrant one, tend to leave that for the rigid singlespeed.

I’d not want suspension on a gravel bike – to me that’s a 29er XC hardtail but I’m often wrong. My ‘gravel’ bike is in an almost constant state of development, to suit my riding. I hesitate calling it a gravel bike as it’s got flat bar and barends rather than drops – does that make it a rigid 29er? I don’t know. Works for me though so I hesitate to pigeonhole any bike.

I started off with a CX bike – Genesis Vapour – hated drops and toe overlap. Moved to a flat-barred Roadrat, gradually changed bits until (I thought) I’d made it into something it wasn’t. Swapped to a rigid 29er – Singular Swift – thinking it’d be more suited than my Roadrat but was wrong. Rebuilt my Roadrat with wider tyres but that got flattened by a car within 12 months. Replaced it with another Roadrat as nothing else seemed as suited, tyres got fatter again. Then I got my current ti ‘adventure’ frame for my 40th which has morphed into monster commuter/gravelly/HT with carbon forks, flat bar, barends, 700x50s, full length guards (cos commuter). Recently added a 150mm dropper which has been incredibly worthwhile for me and well worth the weight penalty.

Titus Mutsu

It’s been my lifeline over the past 10 months when I’ve not been able to travel to ‘proper’ MTB trails – there’s just so much gravelly-type riding from my doorstep which would be otherwise mundane if I was riding a MTB.

I guess my point is it’s worth trying whatever you think might work for you and your terrain.

Got a Cane Creek Thudbuster ST on the back of my gravel bike.

Funnily enough that’s what I’ve just removed in favour of a 150mm dropper – in fact it’s in the pic I posted above. Very effective in the conditions you mention, although I think me having 50mm wide tyres lessened the need. For my riding I’m certainly getting more benefit from the dropper, but for average bumpy gravel etc it’s superb.

A modern day Flexstem?

https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Redshift-Sports-ShockStop-Suspension-Stem_211457.htm?sku=651353&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=prod_ads&mkwid=s_dc|pcrid||pkw||pmt|e|slid||&pgrid=1205065368483230&ptaid=pla-4578916217493537&msclkid=bb04e9b67a5512bd193f89b3ee78ed43&utm_term=4578916217493537&utm_content=Stems

Cannondale Silk Tour.

Generally I’d look to tyres to do the work and as you get to 29 x 2.3 I want an MTB bar etc, but the Headshok has so much potential in this area, still. As much as I’m not into sus on a gravel bike I have to say the Slate was one of the most eye-opening bikes I’ve ridden in years. So there’s a blurred line over what the suspension is, how much, whether you can keep the stiffness of a rigid / lock it out etc. And a Q over whether the cost and complexity justifies the gains.

Those Redshift stems get a lot love on Facebook. Feels like the world has gone in full circle but if it works…..

My work in progress is an old 29er HT with a pair of Koga Denman Bars. Rigid and a 100mm set of forks to suit what I’m doing. It’s not going to win me any fashion awards. I’m thinking rigid hard off road (> gravel bike for my local riding) and a bit of a nod to a road hoods position on road with a world traveller heavy duty tourer cameo appearance a couple of times a year. It’ll probably be crap.

It’ll probably be crap.

Probably be great – that’s what my Jones gets used for. Rigid forks and the bars (Hs on mine, Kogas similar) make all the difference ime. Get the right fast, high volume tyres and it’s a useful ATB.

jameso is heading in the right direction, me thinks. I toyed with the idea of a gravel bike, but being from a cyclo cross background, and having used one locally for longer rides in the past, I know how quickly beaten up I get on the bits where the cattle and ponies hoof prints have solidified – and that’s about 50% of any route.

I ended up with a rigid 29+ Stooge Speedball with Geoff bars and Maxis Chronicle tyres. The tyres roll very well, and have good volume to iron out the bumps. The Geoff bars are 720 wide and give plenty of control on steep stuff (I’ve used them on the gravity enduro stages at QE Park quite satisfactorily). They also let me get into a more aero tuck position on longer road bits / gravelly headwinds. All-in a smooth, swift ride on gravel-plus terrain.

That’s my two-penneth anyway.

I’m midway through converting an Xc 29er into a monster cross/gravel bike.
The bike was originally built with 100mm forks and a zero stack lower headset cup which gave it a head angle pretty close to 70 degrees.
It was fine for mile munching on non technical terrain, if not too steep downhill. Over time I decided I wanted it to be slacker to cope with the sort of riding I enjoy more. So extended the forks to 120 and fitted a -2 slackset. Better but still felt like it was going to limit me. So ditched it for a lls frame and 140 fork.
Recently I looked at this Xc frame again and decided to try again but with drop bars, 36c tyres that I had knocking about, 2×9 gearing, etc. Left the forks and headset on. No lockout as it was bar mounted and now doesn’t fit the bars.
What I found was that it was horrible to attack any climb esp in the drops due to the forks, but pretty fun to descend rough fast descents on, until things got techy. In other words the experience was kind of like riding a not very good mtb. That’s what I’d made.
On a road ride in winter slush and ice it was loads more confidence inspiring than the road bike with 25mm tyres my pal was riding, and not much slower than I normally am on my road bike. (I’m pretty slow!)
I’ve just ordered a rigid carbon fork and will fit that with the original headset to give me back my 70 head angle and precise front end.
I can see me riding it like that quite a bit on roads as it will have more comfy tyres, wider mtb gearing and the choice of positions from flared drops (midge bars)

TL:DR tried it didn’t like it, going rigid.

Also I had a very brief ride on a bike with lauf fork once. There was no feeling of fork bob when attacking climbs. I can see why some people would get on with them.

Got a Cane Creek Thudbuster ST on the back of my gravel bike. Makes a noticeable difference to being able to continue to pedal over washboard and gravel surfaces without having to stand up or stop pedalling.

Yep, Thudbuster encourages almost irresponsible pedalling behaviour, it’s great! I think though you can just adapt to a rigid post and not need the Thudbuster, I even felt as if the bike was faster without it, not sure if just weight (unlikely) or some sort of pedalling inefficiency. I just keep it for multi-day stuff.

I’m another on in the ‘converting a 29er with 100mm forks’ camp. My Superfly just needs the chain sorted and it will be ready for it’s latest re-incarnation. I’m using the same tyres (Vittoria Terrero Dry) as my gravel bike but 50mm/2.1″ instead of 40mm. Bar ends mounted inboard of grips to recreate same position as hoods (virtually identical reach, slightly narrower).

Am still not sure what it’s for though! Every trip I planned to use it on is the same proportion of MTB terrain vs. Gravel terrain as previous trips I’ve done on the gravel bike, so hopefully I’m not lumbering myself with a 2 or 3kg heavier bike, slower tyres and bobbing forks, just for a bit of wrist relief (so to speak…) at the end of each day.

On the other hand, I had started a thread elsewhere about a trip where I was blatantly about to bite off more than I could chew, so would probably be glad of the bail out option of forks and fatter tyres…

You can do steep stuff with a 70 degree head angle. Especially if you have a dropper. Having a rigid for really helps as you can actually lean on the front end a lot more.

Recently got an old steel frame powder coated a new colour, put drop bars on and new 650b rims built onto the old hubs. Got to say it rides really well with the 100mm travel Reba forks on it. Lock them out for the tarmac, turn them on for the dirt.

Those Redshift stems get a lot love on Facebook. Feels like the world has gone in full circle but if it works…..

I just got one of these – seems decent but not had a proper test yet. They also do an eyewateringly expensive, and heavy suspension seatpost that gets good reviews too for helping you pedal over washboard.

You can order from them direct – priced in $$$, but dispatched from UK. They also have deals on too, so price can be 1/4-1/3 cheaper if anyone is interested

You can order from them direct – priced in $$$, but dispatched from UK. They also have deals on too, so price can be 1/4-1/3 cheaper if anyone is interested

I wish they’d make it more transparent, I’ve got the fear of ordering and then suddenly finding they’re shipping from EU, with associated costs and faffle…

My own yourney has taken me through a Yeti Big Top configured as lightweight rigid mtb (+ss), hardtail, monstercross (spent loads on Gevenale kit). Now have Whyte Saxon Cross which is great, but I like riding it more than my winter road bike (Trek Domane) – trying to amalgamate the two (lighter gravel bike) so bought a Free Ranger frame.

Half the fun is in building stuff up and experimenting.

Thanks all to responding to my night time ramblings.

I think I’m probably in the ‘keep it simple’ group but as mentioned, my thoughts drifted when I started looking at the more MTBish type frames that seem to becoming more popular. Wonder if that’s the direction gravel is taking? Anyway, with my dearest watching nonsense on the telly I have plenty of time to contemplate!

Part of the reason was that I always considered drop bar bikes to be better the lighter they were. This changed when I got my Marin as it was a real lump but great fun so then by getting a lighter frame and parts the heavier fork wouldn’t bother me.

I almost got a XC bike but went gravel instead so see the appeal and agree that I’m steeping seriously on XC toes. I still don’t think that’s right for me atm as I really enjoyed the road/light offroad rides I was doing so reckon the answer for me is to back away from the more naughty GB and get back to looking at the traditional stuff that suits what I actually want it for. Can go lighter then!

You can do steep stuff with a 70 degree head angle.

Well of course you can. We had no choice back in the day. I’d rather not if I have the choice though. 😂

Although another reason for changing the frame was I could only fit a 125 dropper in. Always felt like seat was in the way on steeps. Replacement frame 5cm shorter seat tube so 180 dropper fitted.

I have a stock Genesis Fugio 30 in the sweet sunset fade paint job. It’s used as a commuter, backroad explorer, canal towpath bimbler and road bike. I’ll get another 29er HT or short travel full sus at some point and that’ll be all the bikes I need.

Prefer the gravel bike with decent sized tyres to a road bike. Mainly because the roads are terrible and I can’t resist exploring tracks that I find. If you’re not a serious road rider, which I’m not, I think they’re a better road bike. Fast, efficient, fun and can handle a surprising amount of off-road shenanigans if the mood takes you.