The Welsh prop is guilty as per the below IRB law

(h)
A player must not charge into a ruck or maul. Charging includes any contact made without use of the arms, or without grasping a player.

Indeed, but its never enforced.

I remember posting a gif of Biggar being hit by a samoan diving into a ruck ages back and everyone here said it was fine…hang on I’m off to the gwlad gif archive…..

And another example, this one after the whistle has gone.

Can tell it’s half term this week ^^^

So in that spirit…

If Attwood was reckless when he knocked North out, then Hibbard was worse when he did it. Ball wasn’t even close, should have been more careful where he put his head.
If it’s about duty of care, then there’s no exception just for being Welsh.

If Attwood was reckless when he knocked North out, then Hibbard was worse when he did it.

I dont recall Hibbard kicking anyone in the head.

After all the guff about how ace Coventry is, Tubby Goode has signed for Reading Samoans/NotNots

In open play are you saying you should be able to predict where someone’s head might be and then not put your foot there or kick in that general direction?

If you see someone diving on the ball then you can either dive for it yourself with your arms or wait for then to get it and tackle. If someone is diving on the ball then you can bet their head won’t be far behind! I do think Attwood had no intention of doing anything naughty but it is a bit like catchers putting themselves in a venerable position when jumping in the air- the other players around them have a responsibility to not be careless with their actions (IMO, maybe not in the letter of the law).

The Welsh prop is guilty as per the below IRB law

Rucks in internationals are brutal and there is a lot of potential for injury but you hardly ever see the infringements by the letter of the law pinged as A_A says. I can’t say I like the Gethin-Hogg collision! I also hate seeing players removed with an arm around the neck and shoulder and twisted half ripping their heads off but that seems like fair game too 😐

Maybe the tub of lard wasnt offered a contract?

Attwood’s attempt to fly hack the ball forward was totally legit

If he had kicked the ball and not someones head!

Anyway unpick this! Not sure its a high tackle but not sure its a knock on either

[video]http://youtu.be/TGEyfRVUow4?t=42s[/video]

Oooh, I missed that as had to take the dog out. Seems the Scot made a deliberate effort to send the ball backwards. Footage didn’t show if Clancy came in off the the touchline to have a word again. 🙂

Attwood was just trying to hack the ball on. If the defender wants to be brave and dive in to save the situation, that’s up to him. Attwood was entitled to kick the ball, just that North’s head beat him to it.

With the JD sin binning, he was looking for the ball but the real culprit was Sean Lamont who “eased” him into the collision, presumably banking on the yellow card.

Attwood was just trying to hack the ball on. If the defender wants to be brave and dive in to save the situation, that’s up to him. Attwood was entitled to kick the ball, just that North’s head beat him to it.

Agreed

Not sure its a high tackle

He was stood fully upright with his arm out sideways, I know it’s exacerbated by HK’s height and the fact he was stumbling but It would have been pretty high even fully upright.

not sure its a knock on either

Not seen a definitive replay but at the time I couldn’t believe they’d not gone upstairs – definitely too fine to be sure in real time to my mind.

Anyway unpick this! Not sure its a high tackle but not sure its a knock on either

At the time I thought the high tackle was definite and therefore more punishment seemed likely. Seeing it again it looks a bit more like a ducked tackle and a bit of a stumble… but other views show the contact and the scrum half does go down so it must have been a fair knock, i.e. high tackle 😕

With the knock on it seems any time the ball is dropped and not obviously hugely backwards then it gets called as a knock on. Dropped and slightly backwards or level seems to be given as a knock on nowadays. There wasn’t a great view of it but I’m not convinced it went forwards either!

The referees confidence was definitely knocked early on. It was more like football referee decision making with the dallying and odd calls from being influenced by others rather than than authoritarian approach you usually see in rugby. Somewhere between this referees game and Steve Walsh’s self belief will do nicely

It looks like the midget 9 ducks into webbs armpit to my eye!

With the knock on it seems any time the ball is dropped and not obviously hugely backwards then it gets called as a knock on.

That’s what’s known as a “Rugby League knock-on”.

Somewhere between this referees game and Steve Walsh’s self belief will do nicely

LOL indeed!

Jackson has been fast tracked by the NZRU as a referee. He played his last game for Sarries in 2010 IIRC.

Had the little scots fella not have ducked, he’d have been clotheslined. Webbs arm comes out from his shoulder horizontal to the floor i.e head height. High tackle in my book, but I have little tolerance for anything above centre of the chest so I’m perhaps not the best person to judge.

Had the little scots fella not have ducked, he’d have been clotheslined. 

But he did duck so Webb missed.

But he did duck so Webb missed.

Still hit the turf as a result. Academic though, Wales won and that’s that.

Finn Russell cited and Owen Williams out for the season…

Not the same incident though!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31490831

There were a few dropped balls in that game that appeared to go straight down or even back, consistently given as forward. Still a question over Wynn Jones wide pass. It’s one of those flat ball forward momentum moments.

[video]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=box08lq9ylg[/video]

Yep. Really.

Been visiting relatives as price for yesterday’s pass.Second one first, trailing arm is Webb’s responsibility. First one, jumper has to be protected according to the rules, then as THM alludes to we get to intent and also effect. You judge every incident on its merits based on the above AND what type of game it is, a holistic approach if you will. As to the whole pro rugby player knowing what they are doing at all times, sorry; that just isn’t true in my experience. But then the citing officer has obviously got a different perspective. There is always a target area that is whistled tightly each month, Feb is obviously be-kind-to-the -jumper- month.

With the knock on it seems any time the ball is dropped and not obviously hugely backwards then it gets called as a knock on.

That’s what’s known as a “Rugby League knock-on”.

Duckman, do you have any insider info as to how knock ons are asked to be refereed? Is it just that it is so hard to judge if a dropped ball is straight down or ever so slightly backwards in the heat of the moment that it is most practical to call anything not hugely backwards a knock on?

Watched the game again last night. It was a **** great catch by Biggar. Game in retrospect was a bit of a cripple fight if you’ll excuse the unpc phrase. Wales could have really put scotland away early in the second half had they been on form. Also if Scotland had taken the opportunities they created it could have been very grim for Wales. Still dont get why Wales kicked for the corners rather than take 3 points it was so odd I can only think they wanted to run through the lineout and maul drills, saw similar things in the autumn. Then when AW Jones was interviewed at the end he suggested they should respect opponents more and take it a game at a time…hmmm..

Yep, Gatland made a lot of references afterwards about “getting the practice in” during the game

I hope everything is part of the normal 6N success plan aimed at the WC: Normally, awful Autumn = Great 6N. Maybe they are just shifting that cycle along a bit for Awful 6N = Great WC 😕 Playing sh1t is all part of the grand plan! 😆

With regard to the comment about France having no salary cap, I thought they did but that it was just huge compared to everyone else’s at circa €10m.

Scotland will be kicking themselves Im sure because they did seem to create a lot of opportunities to score tries. They just fluffed them….not that I can comment as an Englishman because we’re pretty adept at that too.

Competition in the air is getting silly now. Cases like Russell’s challenge was dangerous and a clear yellow, but the Davies card seemed harsh. If we’re not careful we’ll get to the point where noone competes for the ball for fear of a penalty of yellow card.

CFH, I wonder why they didn’t post it up for £100k, eh ? Just daft and for only 1 ticket so no use to the corporate market at all. The tickets for the 2007 final in Paris where changing hands for around £1,000 in the week before the match when the finalists where known. After the Aussies got knocked out in Marseilles fans where selling tickets at face outside the stadium for the semi-final (co-incidently these where around euro 100)

Playing sh1t is all part of the grand plan! 

Who is more deluded, them or us? 🙂

I paid £16 pounds for the Will Carling era WC final. The Austrailian scarf and corked hat came to more than that 😈

Heaslip out for four weeks.

Thankfully, just “damaged” vertebrae rather than fractured. He’ll miss the England game. I’d rather an in-form Heaslip than Jordi Murphy, but hopefully he’ll step up. Hope Pape spends the rest of the competition in the stands.

Thanks Duckman, interesting comments esp re the element of discretion. Also interested in your comment about players knowing what they are doing 100% of the time – we agree on this! I am staggered by the citing.

We certainly don’t want to get to the point in football where the goalie now appears to have an exclusion zone around him. But still need to balance this with the safety of the player.

There was on incident where two welsh players (Roberst was one) and one Scot (Hogg?) all went up together with two Welsh players (unsurprisingly) winning the ball. From memory, I think they all committed and then closed their eyes. Not that far away from a slight mis timing and similar outcome to the cited incident.

Given the current level of physicality, rugby is now approaching a potential tipping point in terms of balancing extraordinary physicality and size, the need to protect players and maintaining the spectacle and essence of the game.

I have worked with Eng and Scottish internationals from the 80s and they were pretty crocked. What will this lot look like in 15 years time? Especially with all the pain hiding stuff and recovery (?) mixes.

Heaslip had been looking on form so that is a blow for Ireland. Since he got 5 weeks for 2 knees to the head of McCaw it would be harsh for Pape to get any more. 5 weeks may see Pape be able to return for the last game???

Next round should be interesting as it seems to be the pairings of the most evenly matched teams (roughly)

There was on incident where two welsh players (Roberst was one) and one Scot (Hogg?) all went up together with two Welsh players (unsurprisingly) winning the ball. From memory, I think they all committed and then closed their eyes. Not that far away from a slight mis timing and similar outcome to the cited incident.

All three went for the ball so no problem. Russel didnt, miss timed it/shit out and backed into Biggar. Maybe there was a lack of intent but he did the worst thing possible for the man in the air.

Given the current level of physicality, rugby is now approaching a potential tipping point in terms of balancing extraordinary physicality and size, the need to protect players and maintaining the spectacle and essence of the game.

I totally agree. As a spectator and ST holder as well as a parent (Junior Colts) I worry both at a professional level and watching my pride and joy at a junior lever. The level of physicality can be huge and the potential for injury is a concern. I do think the game may have to be significantly altered for it to be sustainable.
Only last week my son came up against an opposing player who was around 6.2″ and I estimate around 16st. Other than one first minute “no arms” incident which could have been serious (and was not spotted) he played generally fairly however that size combined with the temperament of one of the incredibly aggresive types that most teams appear to have at least one of and it could have been a problem.

As I understand it, in NZ junior rugby is not based purely on age but also on size. If you happen to be a 6’2″ monster at age 13, then they move the monster to a more size appropriate group. They then learn to play “around” their opponent and learn the basics of passing and catching a ball.

The northern hemisphere plays strictly to the age grades, where-by you end up with “monsters” at whatever age running over their opponents, rather than learning to play rugby they learn how to smash their way up the field, ALA Gats-ball.

When these “monsters” move up to senior level they’re not the big kids any more and then struggle with the basics.

I think weight limits are a good idea for junior rugby.

Rugby Union has done nothing about player welfare since the professional era came about. The administrators have sat idly by while players have become fitter/faster/heavier/stronger and the game itself has become considerably more high impact.

The pitches are the same size as 100 years ago but they appear significantly smaller due to the modern player being able to cover them so quickly.

I would cut the number down from 15 to 13. Or maybe 12.

6 forwards and 6 backs?

It would be more like 7s. More space, less boshing up the middle, more running and passing so less emphasis on sheer power and bulk with greater endurance required.

3 good welsh boyo’s

And I think this might be aimed at some of you

@JiffyRugby: 
Whatever you say as a co commentator you can’t please everyone. #sotoughshit