As someone who donated (via their membership) I’ve no issue with how they spent the money, as long as it was spent on activities deemed necessary/useful for the strategic objective of independence

That’s great for you – but if the SNP wanted the flexibility to spend the money on anything it wanted (salaries, paying off loans, or whatever else), it shouldn’t have promised to only use the money for a specific task! This is absolutely basic stuff.

I’m not as tin foil hat as that Bruce 🙂

I think that the police have attempted to do two things.  Be 100% thorough if not more so so that they can not be accused of being soft on the SNP ( Unlike the met and the Tories) and also to attempt to be fair to the SNP by trying to keep as much as possible private hence the tent.

but if the SNP wanted the flexibility to spend the money on anything it wanted (salaries, paying off loans, or whatever else), it shouldn’t have promised to only use the money for a specific task! This is absolutely basic stuff.

Indeed – that appears to be the main issue and its a breach of electoral law leading to a fine for the party – similar to the two times the tories got fined for something similar

Yeah, my theory was almost as ridiculous as suggesting the presence of the evidence tent showed this was more than just an fraud investigation.

Maybe it’s just standard procedure if the police reckon there are going to be a lot of people taking photos during a search.

Does anyone know if, perhaps, there were a lot of people taking photos for some unknowable reason?

Yeah, my theory was almost as ridiculous as suggesting the presence of the evidence tent showed this was more than just an fraud investigation.

I don’t think it’s “anything more” than just a fraud investigation. I was asking a question to why this fraud investigation needed an evidence tent. It just looks very unusual. It could be argued that the police did it to make the whole thing look even worse, not too protect them from the press!

Surely if you are seizing documents, they are already in a box or you put them in a box before you carry them out?

I really don’t think that they have buried anyone under the patio.

I was asking a question to why this fraud investigation needed an evidence tent. It just looks very unusual.

I gave my best guess as an answer – so the press could not see what was being removed as the police try to be as fair as they can whilst also be zealously thorough to prevent accusations of being soft on them

Maybe it rains a bit in Scotland & the police thought it a good idea to have a tent to stop paperwork getting wet, either that or they might be digging up body parts or dinosaur bones.

I really don’t think that they have buried anyone under the patio.

I do, but then maybe that’s just me imagining what I would do if I was FM.

@Bruce

BruceWee
Full Member
Definitely.

What worries me is that Humza Yousaf doesn’t seem to even be given a chance. He’s been in the job for two weeks and he’s already been written off.

I expected there was
(A) such a big job of internal reform required and
(B) such a hostile environment in the press and in factions within the SNP and outside the SNP.
That the task is too much to be accomplished by one new party leader who ever that may be.
If the SNP is to revive it will probably be with the next leader.
So far Humza has made a mistake by not extending the olive branch to supporters Kate Forbes or Ash Regan. Let’s see how he does at rebuilding party democracy.
However he will have to be excellent as FM and party leader otherwise I think continuous media assault and any sense that it is the same old faces trotting out the same old line from the SNP will lead him out of office

that appears to be the main issue and its a breach of electoral law leading to a fine for the part

As a single-issue fund raising campaign – raising funds to deliver a particular activity,  rather than party funding more broadly – there might be a bit more to it than electoral law. Steve Bannon’s ‘build the wall’ fundraising, and the resulting charges that could see up to 15 years in prison for instance. It’s not necessarily the case that any individual is trousering the money for themselves (although he was in that instance) . But a little bit of well-meaning robbing Peter to pay Paul – taking funds raised for one purpose (Indi-2) and using it for another (patching shortfalls in membership income) because in your mind it’ll its all really for one cause really –  could mean some lines have been crossed that are about more than electoral rules.

A bit like Trump’s current troubles sometimes its not what you do thats the crime, its lying about, hiding, obscuring what you’ve done that crosses the line.

True Maccruiskeen.  Hubris.  Its gets a lot of politicians in the end.

We will see when it all comes out.

We will see when if it all comes out

FTFY

Guardian reporting that auditors resigned 6 months ago

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/12/humza-yousaf-kate-forbes-scotland-snp-party-auditors

Guardian reporting that auditors resigned 6 months ago

that’s been knowledge for the past few days

Did someone say not having auditors isn’t a big deal. Seems the SNP Westminster group don’t have auditors either and could lose £1M party funding if it isn’t sorted by May 31st.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23453226.snp-faces-loss-1million-public-funds-auditor-chaos/

SNP Westminster Group Face Losing £1 Million After Auditors Quit

that appears to be the main issue and its a breach of electoral law leading to a fine for the party – similar to the two times the tories got fined for something similar

You know, of course, that it is the Electoral Commission that investigates run-of-the-mill breaches of electoral funding law. Issues are only passed to police if “a breach involves a criminal offence, but we can’t sanction or it’s so serious that our sanctions wouldn’t be strong enough”. Regulators and police are often wrong, of course, but evidently their belief at the moment is that this is not some mere bookkeeping slip-up.

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/who-we-are-and-what-we-do/our-enforcement-work

Ok – I still think its much less serious than many would like but we will see in time.

Ta for that

Re the Auditors quitting, as there’s no muttering about breach of contract, is it that they were in fact donating their time and are no longer prepared to do it FOC, so the SNP are in fact struggling to find anyone willing to do it on the cheap, when things are a bit tight.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/peter-murrell-arrest-luxury-campervan-seized-by-police-investigating-snp-is-owned-by-party-humza-yousaf-confirms/ar-AA19PwJ5

I think I can understand why some donators asked questions.
How exactly does a motorhome further the independence campaign?

According to the SNPs accounts, the Audit Fee for the last occurrence in 2021 (but published in August 2022)  was £57,000. Is that cheap given that the previous year it was only £26,000?

How exactly does a motorhome further the independence campaign?

The claim is it was to be used as a “battle bus” for campaigning during covid or something.  Its hardly been hidden has it.  Still a bit weird as apparently its never been moved

Auditors quitting, as there’s no muttering about breach of contract

Why would it be a breach? Auditors get appointed for a set number of years and have to be reappointed. Contracts will allow for either party to rescind the contract with appropriate notice.

The claim is it was to be used as a “battle bus” for campaigning during covid or something. Its hardly been hidden has it. Still a bit weird as apparently its never been moved

Well it’s obviously been hidden given very few people seemed to know about it until recently.
But it does beg the question, if they spent £110’000 on that, what have they spent the other money on?

The big thing for me, is any of these things on their own could possibly be explained, but everything together paints a picture of either gross incompetence/poor management, or underhand dealings.
Regardless, at the moment it appears nobody within the SNP seems to know what has gone on, what is happening, or seem to be making any moves to actively address things. They just appear to be waiting to see what is going to happen next.

“That bus was just resting on my driveway”. 🤣

The way I see it SNP finances were a mess and Murrell ( and presumably Sturgeon) did not want to make it public the big loss of members / income so pushed money around from one place to another to hide this.  This then becomes a spiral like a gambling addiction and there was no one to say ” OI WTF are you doing”until it reached a point where it was impossible to hide anymore

someone must have signed off on the purchase of the camper van.  Its a very poor way to hide money / cream it off

If you’re gonna waste other people’s money on dodgy vehicles, you’ve got a way to go until you catch up with Boris Johnson: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/19/boris-johnson-unused-water-cannon-sold-for-scrap-at-300000-loss

The claim is it was to be used as a “battle bus” for campaigning during covid or something.

Do any SNP supporters believe that?

Surely someone, somewhere, has photoshoped

“£110k for this campervan, Shouldn’t we spend that on independence instead?”

onto the side of it?

Where’s @Jamie when you need him?

Yeah, the camper van is a real head scratcher, it’s not exactly the brexit bus, which in itself was hired for a short period at preferential rates, you’d think the SNP would go to Stagecoach for similar rather than outlay for a brand new camper. You’d also think they’d park it up at SNP offices or even parliament, it’s just another case where the SNP look very incompetent.

Still think Nicola and her husband aren’t guilty of anything fraudulent, just politicians now looking daft after a bright idea isn’t so bright after all.

Still think Nicola and her husband aren’t guilty of anything fraudulent, just politicians now looking daft after a bright idea isn’t so bright after all.

Needs a “deliberatly” in there and I also think they maybe did the gamblers thing of chasing losses.  IE make a small cock up and then try to hide it creating a larger one and with them controlling the party so tightly no one said to the “WTF are you up to?”

It’s not like there was no attempt made to check on the finances..

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/douglas-chapman-resigns-as-snp-national-treasurer-over-lack-of-support-3255260

Yeah, the camper van is a real head scratcher, it’s not exactly the brexit bus, which in itself was hired for a short period at preferential rates, you’d think the SNP would go to Stagecoach for similar rather than outlay for a brand new camper.

Especially if the justification is “COVID”.

1) There was a whole touring industry on hiatus they could have hired a whole tour bus
2) Lockdown didn’t stop anyone staying in a hotel
3) Lockdown did prevent public gatherings, you don’t need a battle buss to host Zoom Q&A’s.

1) There was a whole touring industry on hiatus they could have hired a whole tour bus

You mean like these two hired buses Nicola is promoting just after the campervan was bought?

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/7049661/nicola-sturgeon-election-battle-bus-indyref2/

The thing that gets me with the camper is is that if you wanted to hide / launder money / take money out for personal reasons there are a lot better ways of doing it that are tried and tested.  Like Jackson Carlaw the tory MSP and the paintings from his bust business

We’ll find out the answer in the near future, i just find it completely mental, which is why i think it’s just a hugely embarrassing fiasco rather than some fraudulent activity, i’m no fan of the SNP, i have voted for them when in Scotland, but i just see them as no better than any other party, full of chancers and idiots, but i do think Sturgeon is someone who was all about the image and the message, i can’t see how she’d willingly, or knowingly do anything fraudulent.

Police Scotland has confirmed officers are still investigating fraud allegations over £295,000 of taxpayers’ money which was handed to the publisher of a book of Nicola Sturgeon’s speeches.

https://www.insider.co.uk/news/sturgeons-book-publisher-still-being-26667659

The purchase of a campervan for campaigning is just about plausible given the vast area of some highland constituencies, I could believe that some MSPs/MPs might have wanted to use it even outwith covid times. If that was the case you would think the purchaser, might have told someone there was a very posh campervan available!

A Police Scotland spokeswoman told the Scottish Daily Express: “Information has been passed to police which is currently being assessed.”

Not the same as the headline at all

That looks to me just like sour grapes

Ah yes. Nothing to see here. Incidentally does anyone defend the fact that for the last 8 years the elected leader and the chief executive of the SNP was a married couple?

The purchase of a campervan for campaigning is just about plausible given the vast area of some highland constituencies

Are you suggesting that to protect against COVID, an MSP, their researchers and press agents might want to all sleep in the same confined space while campaigning? 🤔 Exactly what problem would buying a campervan out of party funds (when they were skint) fix?

I get that to be a Scottish Nationalist after Brexit you need to have a bit of magical thinking, but this reality distortion field is just nuts.

The thing that gets me with the camper is is that if you wanted to hide / launder money / take money out for personal reasons there are a lot better ways of doing it that are tried and tested.

Evidently we are not dealing with rocket scientists.

It is not against party rules and doesn’t break any electoral laws. However, I can think of many employers who have rules on such things as it could be (a} inappropriate, or (b) lead to questionable decisions. The motorhome could be a symptom of this. We know that Murrell loaned the party about £108,000 – about the cost of the motorhome. It’s possible the lines between personal possessions and party possessions was getting a bit blurred. Or maybe there was some tax advantage/deal available to the party but not him?

Oh – and it’s definitely not a campervan.