Speed through different berms

I was having this thought on Saturday whilst at bike park wales. Big fast berms I’m no faster really than any of the people I ride with. I try to go in quite high and accelerate out down the slope of the berm.

Tighter berms I seem to be comparatively much quicker – I’ve got to the stage I can whip through them with a nice weight transfer that I struggle to find on bigger / longer berms.

For example at BPW the top half of sixtapod most people are with me – but I get into the woods bit where it gets tighter and I’m gone. The same with roller disco and Willy waver.

Is there something I’m missing technique wise on big berms that would give me more speed?

Is there something I’m missing technique wise on big berms that would give me more speed?

Is there something you should be telling us technique wise on small berms that would give us more speed?

I’m going to guess you are better at pumping the tight berms than your fellow riders but that advantage dissipates as the corners get bigger because it just does. I am far from expert on this so just padding out the thread with my usual BS

On a big, fast berm, if your body position is ‘about right’ & you are in the sweet spot of the berm, then trail speed is the defining factor to carrying speed through the corner, rather than perfect technique, as there isn’t enough elevation on the trails you have mentioned to make a significant difference.

On something like Boomslang after the first few jumps the corners are significantly steeper (and much faster) so will highlight where you arnt getting things right.

I’m pretty terrible at fast berms, I’ve always put it down to not being very strong in the leg so I can’t hold my position.
Not really sure about small berms, you can show me next time we ride.

Id say the upper bit of sixtapod is comparatively flat, you are probably all rolling at the same speed and not really troubling the limits of skill or traction, despite it feeling quite high speed.
As it gets steeper, tighter or both; you’ll be pushing the edge of your skill (or bravery) which starts to separate people.

I would assume what Rubber Buccaneer said

@pimpingimp – I suspect your ‘not fast’ is quite fast based on that short ride at Rowberrow.

@rubber_buccaneer – you may be right – it doesn’t feel like I pump the tighter berms where I don’t feel like I can do that to bigger berms.

Maybe I just need more speed (and therefore more bottle and strength) for the bigger / longer / more sweeping berms.

@joebristol nah seriously, the short trails at Rowberrow flatter me, I’m so unfit I’m genuinely gassed about 1/3 1/2 the way down the mountain at BPW because I’m such a softie so I can barely hold on through the berms!

Hopefully this new strength programme I’m on will help, look out Mountain, I’m coming for ya!

@pimpingimp

Inwas struggling with my hands mostly and grip on the bars. Weird – not an issue I’ve had a lot – other than on the likes of terrys belly where you end up with claws instead of hands by the bottom. Must stop dragging my brakes. I’m putting it down to 2 months off riding due to appendicitis – it’s not been a problem on shorter rides I’ve done since then – but repeated long runs at BPW and struggling. Legs weren’t as bad as I thought as I’ve done a lot of Zwift and banged in a few leg weight training sessions recently.

Weirdly I’m usually better against my peers on techier stuff than on sweepy stuff, but with you it was the opposite, the techy stuff you flowed better. I think the only time I managed not to hold you up was surfing bird as I know it quite well. But the last half of wibbly wobbly you pulled out on me.
You take really nice lines on berms, quite sweepy and high, way higher than most. It was a pleasure to watch (sorta)

I definitely get the hand thing Joe, I always put that down to not getting enough rides in so never getting used to that sort of thing – but you don’t have that excuse so I don’t know what might cause it!

I’ve improved in the past with thicker softer grips, softer and better damped forks and running my brakes really close to the bar so I don’t need to stretch my fingers and increase tension in tendons and muscles. It’s definitely helped but I’m still a broken man after most rides.
Might slack off work one day next week seeing a I’m nearing my departure anyway and have a few hours at FOD just to see if I can still ride and survive.

you can generate speed from shorter compressions (rollers or berms) as you can shift your weight by an appreciable amount within the space of the compression and the time you spend in it.

When the compression gets bigger, the space and the time you have means you have to slow it all the way down, and maybe forget that you’re pumping, just concentrate on having strong, straight legs, pedals level, try and be a rider of steel resisting and pushing against the berm to convert the your speed into the corner into speed out in the new direction, rather than folding and absorbing like a rider of blancmange.

The only bit of coaching I’ve done was at Dyfi Bike Park, where there plenty of bigger, longer berms. I was low on the bike, (thinking that was good) sometimes outside pedal down, meaning my legs were in a weak position and I wasn’t resisting the turning force the berm was giving me.

He got me to stand up, concentrate on strong legs, pedals level, and push through the turn. I got the hang of this, thinking or shouting “Rrrrgh”!!!” or “Strong! Strong AGAIN!” like Mickey Skinner in his rugby tackles compilation VHS my mate had in the 90s.

Helped LOADS. felt miles better, loads quicker, ripped a bunch of side knobs off my tyres.

This explains it better than I could! https://www.pinkbike.com/news/how-to-pump-your-bike-physics.html

@pimpingimp – I’m alright on rides of 2 or 3 hours round FOD / Cwmcarn etc – just the longer runs at BPW continually hammered them. Got some decathlon grip strengthening things so going to try and use those at my desk a bit to help out for next time. I reckon you’ll be alright at FOD as the runs aren’t that long – only Sheepskull is continually rough really – and nothing like the bpw runs where it looks like they’ve just picked up a truck full of slabs and boulders and just dropped them on the trail. Risca is the most similar locally in terms of run length I reckon – riding flat out down wacko top to bottom usually hammers my legs.

@nedrapier – I think I’m at the point where I corner with pedals level but still weighting the outside pedal and mostly turning hips in the direction of the turn (had a few coaching sessions but probably need another one this year) – but I do have a habit of crouching down. So maybe I’m collapsing a bit into those longer / bigger corners and sinking down. Will try thinking about that more next time I’m somewhere with big berms (probably Cwmcarn) and see if it helps.

@Weeksy – I think I’m probably being more aggressive into and out of the tighter berms and pumping the trail more in between. Something that Katy previously said (back in 2018) – proactively ride the trail rather than reacting to it.

@joebristol
interesting insights!

I have had a bit of a revelation lately to do with berms cornerning unlocked

I have had to unlearn the outside pedal down technique for all corners. THe biggest revaltionn for me was pointing the knee outwards which allows the hips to move and more importantly gives the bike room to move around you

I find this also applies for me as tabletops get bigger…

I love that pump you get pushing into tighter berms and hitting smaller tables and gaps but as soon as those jumps get big I struggle.

@mugboo – I reckon on the jump front it comes down to be willing to hit the bigger ones with enough speed. I can do small and medium tables – but some of the stuff at Dyfi was insane when we went there last year. On a couple it was a struggle to carry enough speed to even get up them – needs a complete mindset change and maybe a few changes of pants to try it 🫣

I think there’s something in the comment above about not crouching low in big fast corners – but standing up strong instead. Got a few pbs on big bermy trails I’ve previously ridden a lot.

Joe, I remember taking a left turn at Dyfi that led to 3 tabletops that were the size of houses, one even had a ladder leant against it, presumably in case you managed to get up there but were too scared to get back down 😉

I really struggled with berms last time at BPW. I think it was a combination of bad technique, a bike set up like Matt Jones resulting in fear of speed.

Does anyone have any experience of the berm training they do at BPW?

The only coaching I had at bpw was a group jumps course. It was ok but not brilliant. Better coaching I’ve had has been Katy Curd and Sam Copp at FOD – both on 121 coaching sessions.

My 13 year old is far faster than me in short tight berms.

More open berms or techy stuff quite the opposite.

I put it down to him riding a shorter wheelbase.

And definitely not my lack of skill.

I’m on a medium frame with a 450mm reach so I love tight berms!