Forum menu
Not me I hasten to add…
Someone close to me works in a place where a colleague discovered a decommissioned firearm in a works archive. Apparently it had once been mounted on a plaque. Don’t know how effective the decommissioning is as it has probably been stashed away for 70+ years (I’m surmising here).
Anyway she has taken a shine to this thing and keeps it in her desk, and occasionally waves it about in the office.
How best to deal with this? I would thought that if it had some value or provenance then it should be locked away, and if it has none then it should be disposed of.
Either way it shouldn’t be pointed at people.
Either way it shouldn’t be pointed at people.
Exactly.
police armed response unit!
anonymous call to the police, saying someone has a gun.
Armed response flashbang the room and pile in. Realise its decommissioned, she poops herself and hopefully they take it away for disposal.
Alternatively, when she is away from her desk, nab it, and angle grind it in half.
Out of interest, when she waves it about, is it in a jokey way? Or is it some sort of weird power trip?
I would personally would say if you point that at me, i will spin kick it out of your hand (alternate methods are available, such as the flying head butt, the judo chop etc)
Yeah i think the police need an anonymous tip-off about that tbh.
Jokey apparently. But others in the office don't see it that way.
Print off Section 5 of the Firearms Act and leave it on her desk, that should hopefully scare her into handing it in to the police
Set it in jelly.
Far too little info to make any form of assessment I'm afraid.
Official police response would likely lie anywhere on a sliding scale of ,"SFW?" to full armed response. So:
What sort of firearm is it?
How was it deactivated?
What is the nature of the "waving it around the office"? ie what words are used? How exactly is the item waved? What does the person waving the item gain by doing so?
Without those answers we're surmising as much as your post appears to do.
Either way it shouldn’t be pointed at people.
Assuming that it has been effectively decommissioned, then there is no harm (other than it being a matter of poor taste) in waving it at people. It is, effectively, a toy gun isn't it? And children wave toy guns around a lot.
Best way to deal with it would be to speak to gun-waver and ask them to stop, or gun-waver's manager.
**EDIT - IANA firearms law expert
A quiet word with her first and if she does not stop her boss / HR?
Personally I'd be well annoyed and its not acceptable behaviour in any way
Jokey apparently. But others in the office don’t see it that way.
I'm just editing a load of our firm's HR policies (oh joy).
This probably falls foul of five or six of them.
Have a word with her or your line manager (or both) that it's making you uncomfortable, let them deal with it.
Assuming that it has been effectively decommissioned, then there is no harm (other than it being a matter of poor taste) in waving it at people. It is, effectively, a toy gun isn’t it? And children wave toy guns around a lot.
Assumption is the Mother of all FU's.
And go try waving it in Oxford Street...
OP works for the government - probably a high ranking minister, is it Suella? I claim my £5 Argos voucher.
It is, effectively, a toy gun, and children wave toy guns around a lot.
Yeah nothing wrong with an adult waving a "toy" gun.
Suggest she waves around at people next time she goes shopping. I am sure people will find it hilarious. They might even show their appreciation by letting her have things for free.
Have a word with her or your line manager (or both) that it’s making you uncomfortable, let them deal with it.
It genuinely isn't me! I was told about it last night and was thinking WTF? But on reflection this morning what could be an ill-conceived bit of "bants" by an idiot could get them dismissed or in trouble with the Police.
It's possibly illegal to possess it, but it does depend what it is
Deactivated firearm legislation was updated in 2016 and this changed things including a new requirement to register with the home office.
Advise management to contact the police, ARV might turn up but not in a flash bang way
As above. You guns are really obviously toy guns now. Red/orange muzzles etc
Take a decommissioned firearm onto the street and you'll be looking down the barrels of a surprising number of weapons.
It should be stored/on show properly or destroyed.
Try pulling a blunt katana out of your drawer and waving it about see how long that lasts.
Why would anyone have a BLUNT katana?
Instant dismissal I'd have thought ! As a minimum.
Harry_the_Spider
Don’t know how effective the decommissioning is as it has probably been stashed away for 70+ years (I’m surmising here).
Decommissioning usually involves filing down or removing the firing pin (and possibly other things also), meaning that even if it was loaded, it couldn't fire a bullet. I don't think you have safety concerns, but it does sound like you work with a bit of a knob
Yeah i think the police need an anonymous tip-off about that tbh
and then
police armed response unit!
Don't forget to have a camera set up.
or
Set it in jelly.
👍🤣🙃
Who hold the licences and certification for the firearm?
Laws changed and clarification must be saught. There is the potential that this is now an illegally held firearm. If no one knows remember that ignorance is no defence in law.
Jokey apparently. But others in the office don’t see it that way.
I'd be telling her straight to stop waving that ****ing gun around or she's getting reported to either bosses or police or both!
On the other hand telling the police that someone is waving a gun around could end up with someone being shot, its happened with less than a decomissioned gun before. So maybe tell someone else first.
Escalate! Get a semi-auto Nerf gun and bombard her with nerf darts each time she does it.
My last place (US-based multinational) would have had me instantly dismissed for that. Totally against company policy. I'd probably have been greeted at the door by Plod too.
Cast it in concrete, not jelly, but her HR should be having a very strong word with her in any case.
1. Tell her to hand it in ASAP. It matters not what she thinks but what others think & most pertinently what the law thinks. It is not her choice to make.
2. If not, it's a job for the 5-0 with as much info as you can manage. Not the kind of thing taken lightly & I'd expect a fairly robust response, but that will be on her.
Decommissioning usually involves filing down or removing the firing pin (and possibly other things also),
It involves a whole lot more than that and deactivation (note, NOT 'decommissioning') standards have got stricter and stricter over the years, as earlier methods were easy to 'reactivate'. Barrels will be blocked with weld or steel rods and/or have slots cut in them, breech faces will be milled at an angle to prevent reworking. Mechanisms are welded up on self loaders or automatics to prevent cycling and all pressure bearing parts modified in some way. Removing the firing pin only would be pointless, as it would be a 5 minute job for anyone with access to a lathe to make a new one.
A gun needs to be deactivated to home office standards, but if it has it it no longer legally a firearm. It must have a certificate to say it has been deactivated to home office standards and be stamped with a deactivation proof mark by the London or Birmingham proof house. No proof mark and no certificate and it's legal status is dubious.
keeps it in her desk, and occasionally waves it about in the office.
I'd probably say when you're staring down the barrel of HR, you've gotta ask yourself a question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?
I can understand the novelty, but keeping a real gun in your desk drawer at work is not normal behaviour whatever its perceived or actual status.
It's surely a police matter. Maybe tell them "an old gun has been found and we don't know what to do with it," your friend doesn't need to make it personal.
Why would anyone have a BLUNT katana?
Because you have been busy chopping through guns of course.
If its been stashed away for years I wouldnt be surprised if it wasnt deactivated to modern standards.
I can understand the novelty, but keeping a real gun in your desk drawer at work is not normal behaviour
Yeah that really, I would be threatening to call the cops I think. Or at least speak to her manager to get them to threaten to call the cops. The advice about it's legal status as per @blokeuptheroad should be enough to put the willies up anyone shouldn't it?
the problem is (as with a lot of things) people are ignorant of the [I]actual[/I] law and instead rely on what they think in their heads is reasonable! There's no such thing in law as a "toy" gun. There's such a thing as an "imitation firearm" - which a toy gun automatically is, should it be realistic (this is why they do [I]not[/I] look realistic any more, or at the very least have a big red/orange bit painted on the barrel!)It is, effectively, a toy gun isn’t it? And children wave toy guns around a lot.
It's very much an offence to possess an imitation firearm in public unless you have a good reason (reenactment etc). So I'd suggest that if this decommissioned gun looks like a real gun then the lady is certainly breaking the law and the police would indeed be interested.
https://www.askthe.police.uk/faq/?id=587bc863-12db-eb11-bacb-0022483f57c9
As far as decommissioning goes my understand is, that it only need to fufill the latest standards if sold/transfered now, as an owner you have no requirement to retrospectively fulfill them otherwise. I'm aware that Martin-Henry rifles, can be in completely working condition, as they did not need to be decommissioned due to their age pre-2016.
Even if it is not still within the auspices of firearms legislation waving a replica or deactivated firearm at people in a manner likely to cause a reasonable person fear or alarm is a criminal offence likely to result in a custodial sentence. It strikes me as almost impossible to bring a something that looks like a gun out in an office environment and point it towards people and not cause fear or alarm. Even the worst employers I've had, and the worst "its just bantz" managers would surely see this as grounds for dismissal.
As far as decommissioning goes my understand is, that it only need to fufill the latest standards if sold/transfered now, as an owner you have no requirement to fulfill them otherwise. I’m aware that Martin-Henry rifle owners, can be in completely working condition, as they did not need to be decommissioned due to their age, pre-2016.
Completely different rules. Firearms owned as 'antiques or curios' come under section 58 of the firearms act. They can be owned without a licence and do not need to be deactivated (though some people choose to do so). However the type of firearm that can be owned under section 58 is tightly controlled by the home office. Generally they are muzzle loaders (original, not modern reproductions) or breech loaders chambered for long obsolete calibres (as in your Martini Henry example). The ratty old muzzle loading external hammer shotguns or flintlock rifles you sometimes see hanging on the walls of country pubs? They come under section 58 and don't need to be deactivated or on a license.
Deactivation tends to be used on more modern firearms, chambered for ammunition which is still manufactured and which would otherwise be covered by section 1, 2 or 5 of the firearms act.
As it happens I own a Martini Henry, but mine is licensed (section 1 not section 58) because it a shooter not a wall hanger. I put up a thread about it somewhere....
26. Notice, where required, must be given on or before the day on which the person first possesses the deactivated firearm or, as soon as reasonably practicable after that date. The notice must give a description of the deactivated firearm including, if known, the make, calibre and serial number of the firearm and state the person’s name and address. There is no need to notify if the person is in possession of the deactivated firearm for a period of 14 days or less.
Even if it is not still within the auspices of firearms legislation waving a replica or deactivated firearm at people in a manner likely to cause a reasonable person fear or alarm is a criminal offence likely to result in a custodial sentence. It strikes me as almost impossible to bring a something that looks like a gun out in an office environment and point it towards people and not cause fear or alarm. Even the worst employers I’ve had, and the worst “its just bantz” managers would surely see this as grounds for dismissal.
The seriousness of what she's doing should absolutely not be under estimated.
The seriousness of what she’s doing should absolutely not be under estimated.
Absolutely this.
There's criminal offences being committed there, so gross misconduct, straight to dismissal, do not pass go......
This would be instant dismissal in any company I’ve ever worked in.
At my current employer, a bank, i imagine I’d be facing an awful lot worse than just
being sacked
Office bants innit 🤷♂️
Colleague is a dick. Should be firmly told this and told to hand the firearm into the police, on the assumption this won't happen and contrition will not immediately follow (because colleague is a dick), should be promptly referred to the police. As Polly says, they will be unlikely to take a kind view of it, management an even dimmer view of a police visit, such that at the very least should be sufficient to see said colleague removed from post and at least temporarily improve the workplace considerably.
works in a place where a colleague discovered a decommissioned firearm in a works archive.
I think the important question here is, what sort of work place has this sort of stuff in an archive? Ours is full of old fax machines and stuff.
Get her to read this or better call the police and ask them to come and collect it for destruction