Viewing 40 posts - 121 through 160 (of 176 total)
  • So… someone very nearly caused us to crash, on purpose. What to do?
  • Premier Icon pondo
    Subscriber

    Why are you so concerned about not pissing off speeders?

    Premier Icon finishthat
    Subscriber

    Because maxtorque was driving the mini , its not even funny.

    Premier Icon DezB
    Subscriber

    Driving gods are the awesomest.

    Premier Icon seadog101
    Subscriber

    Hint, if you’re on a 60 or 70 mph speed limit road, then doing 75, or 80, or heaven forbid, even 100 for a couple of hundred yards in a modern car, and where you were previously happy to do say 70 in NOT IN ANY WAY A SIGNIFICANT RISK compared to the risks of having someone tailgate you at “just” 60 mph….

    Well to quote a chum who was Road Traffic police for a long long time

    ‘Never seen any accident on the road where going faster would have made things better’

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    I’m trying to think of a single situation i’ve been in where “It’s all gone wrong in the blink of an eye”

    IME, pretty much everything that happens on the road is in fact, generally extremely obviously about to happen when you look properly!

    Whilst I agree with most of what you say – driving is all about observation and forward planning, and most shitty excuses for accidents like “he came out of nowhere” hold no water – the point I was making is that people are fallible. Professional drivers crash and sometimes die.

    I don’t doubt that you’re a skilled driver. I’d like to think that I am too, though I don’t have any books to name-drop. But if you’re going to claim to be 100% perfect and that you never ever make mistakes then you’re either bulshitting or deluded because no-one on the planet can make that boast about driving or any other discipline for that matter.

    That’s the ‘blink of an eye’ I was meaning. You can be god’s gift to wheels 99.999% of the time, until you sneeze.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    ‘Never seen any accident on the road where going faster would have made things better’

    … where your baseline is “there’s already been an accident,” sure. In the event of a collision, the higher the relative speed then of course the more severe the outcome. But how many incidents didn’t happen because someone booted it to get out of the way of a nobber? It’s hard to collate statistics on things that don’t happen.

    Speed absolutely has an impact on severity, and greatly so. I’m less convinced that it has a direct impact on causation, that’s way more situational.

    5plusn8
    Member

    ‘Never seen any accident on the road where going faster would have made things better’

    Word.
    This bullshit about appropriate speeds etc is just made up crap to justify Adrenalin junkies. If you slow down and pull over, the arsehole behind flashing will just go ahead of you and get out of your way. The reality is that you feel like your manhood has been undermined if you do that because he has “told you what to do”. It is a bit like walking away from a fight and being called chicken. It is the adult sensible thing to do, but most blokes can’t handle it and square up thinking they have to show they are a man. Be a man, slow down.

    Premier Icon theotherjonv
    Subscriber

    When we are in our cars, we, mostly unconsciously, act very differently to how we would when we are not in them. If you are walking along the pavement, and a jogger runs up behind you, you’d (i hope) try your best to make way for them, you might even stop walking completely, move to the side, and let them past, possibly with a cheery “morning”.

    I kind of get this, but also;

    – imagine now you’re in a queue of people, all going the same way, maybe making your way out of the cinema or theatre at the end of a performance. Do you all just accept that’s the speed you’re moving at and the time it’s going to take to get out of the exit, or because someone is fitter / more aggressive / a good runner are they allowed to run through the middle and folk step aside for them with a cheery wave and a smile.

    They’d be told it’s not the place and stop being a ****t.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    Any news from the rozzers OP?

    If you haven’t contacted them, you should – and show that still / clip.

    Hope it’s not too late for them to get footage from the lorry.

    Premier Icon funkmasterp
    Subscriber

    just get out of the way in the most sensible way. Yes they other driver might be “mad” or “be a lunatic” yes, they might be breaking the speed limit, yes they might be “Pushing in” but in all those cases, take the moral high ground and let them get on with what they are doing, well away from you!

    This says it all for me. Just calmly and safely get out of the way and hope they aren’t on the same route as you for too long. This is what I try and do. I occasionally fail because I’m a grumpy bastard and can be prone to giving rude hand gestures. Not proud of it and it’s rare nowadays.

    5plusn8
    Member

    I occasionally fail because I’m a grumpy bastard and can be prone to giving rude hand gestures. Not proud of it and it’s rare nowadays.

    This is why I am in the same camp as you, having lost my rag and been a bit of an massive immature **** in the past, I realise how lucky I am that some of my responses to challenges on my manhood (that were a)bloody dangerous, b) rather pathetic), did not lead to horrific consequences.
    Slow down peeps. If you have ever seen someone die or badly injured in and RTA you would lift your foot and think about your kids at home waiting for you.

    Premier Icon pondo
    Subscriber

    But how many incidents didn’t happen because someone booted it to get out of the way of a nobber?

    Hmm – I can think of occasions where I’ve avoided a collision through braking or turning, I can think of a few where I’ve had to pull away from a junction sharply, but I don’t think I’ve ever had to speed up to avoid a collision on a motorway/dual carriageway/A road, if I was previously travelling at something close to the speed of the average traffic around me.

    Premier Icon maxtorque
    Subscriber

    “Why are you so concerned about not pissing off speeders?”

    er, go back to the original post in the this thread, which is the one where there was nearly a serious collision because some one “got in the way”

    When you “get in the way” for what ever reason (poor observation, being a unoffical TrafPol, or just because you’re also a muppet) of another motorist, your chances of having a serious accident go through the roof. Yes, the “speeder” was wrong, yes they are probably a ****, but why you’d want to become a **** yourself, and possibly kill yourself or someone else just to prove they are “wrong” escapes me…..

    Enjoying the moral high ground is a lot harder from a hospital bed, and really completely impossible from the morgue……..

    Premier Icon maxtorque
    Subscriber

    “I kind of get this, but also;

    – imagine now you’re in a queue of people, all going the same way, maybe making your way out of the cinema or theatre at the end of a performance. Do you all just accept that’s the speed you’re moving at and the time it’s going to take to get out of the exit, or because someone is fitter / more aggressive / a good runner are they allowed to run through the middle and folk step aside for them with a cheery wave and a smile.”

    ime, that doesn’t happen. When someone rudely pushes past, you might get the odd mutter, but very very few people will actively try to prevent them pushing past, mainly because they’ll get punched.

    And that’s the difference, in our little insulated metal boxes we feel safe, we feel like the king or our castle, and so we are more likely to take on risk, that when it’s just us and our fists, very few normal people would take on…

    Premier Icon maxtorque
    Subscriber

    “Because maxtorque was driving the mini , its not even funny.”

    Read my posts, and point out where they suggest i’d drive like that?

    Premier Icon pondo
    Subscriber

    “Why are you so concerned about not pissing off speeders?”

    er, go back to the original post in the this thread, which is the one where there was nearly a serious collision because some one “got in the way”

    Er, from this post…

    Just tootling up the A38 to birmingham on the inside lane, lorry pulls on so I check, indicate, then move out, Mr mini in the outside lane was no where near or moving quickly at this point but is now on full beam, flash flash flash and right up my arse!

    …. Your read is that the OP nearly caused a serious collision because someone got in the way? How did you get to that conclusion?

    Read my posts, and point out where they suggest i’d drive like that?

    There are clues – your first contribution to this post;

    Anyone who deliberately obstructs another driver, for what ever reason is an idiot.

    Without knowing anything other that what’s been written on this thread, how in the wide, wide world of sports can you conclude that the OP deliberately obstructed the Mini driver?

    boblo
    Member

    Is it time for the ‘Where’s SurfMatt’ when you need him comment?

    Premier Icon richmtb
    Subscriber

    I can’t believe no one has said it yet.

    The guy is driving a Mini Countryman. We need to organise an angry mob right now. Never mind his driving, buying one of those should be a capital offense.

    jimw
    Member

    Am I the only one who is interested in what Maxtorque would have done in the OP’s situation?
    Specifically if he/she had been driving the Mini?

    Premier Icon duncancallum
    Subscriber

    I think the synopsis of maxtorques statement is as follows

    Pay attention
    Forward plan
    Anticipate hazards
    Don’t be a dick

    But hey I might be wrong

    Premier Icon maxtorque
    Subscriber

    What would i have done?

    As the OP, traveling in no particular hurry in the LH lane:

    Used good observation and spotted the “pinch” that was about to occur (namely the lorry about to impede me, and the fact that the RH lane had an approaching vehicle in it, meaning that moving right to clear the lorry could bring me into conflict with that vehicle), and depending on the situation and either (i wasn’t there, i don’t know what would have been more appropriate, sorry)

    a) slowed down in the LH lane, allowed the lorry to join in front of me, and the car on my right to continue past me (least possible conflict, but means i have to slow down, which can have secondary consequences (depends whats behind you, and any braking in heavy traffic can cause bunching and a shunt further down the road)

    b) Accelerated in the LH lane, to get “in front” of the truck before it joins (low conflict, but slightly higher risk, as i have to speed up to do this, depends on road being both clear, and it being safe to do so ie no additional hazards identified before this action)

    c) Accelerated, indicated, moved right into RH lane to clear the truck, but made sure i was travelling at a speed to actually be pulling away from the car in the RH lane, then smartly move left after passing the truck to clear the RH lane (Some potential conflict, potential for having to exceed limit, but allows me to continue at speed, again, depends on hazard identification

    Without being there, or without good observation up to the decision point, it’s impossible to say what would have been the “best” choice. It would not be a “snap” decision, but based on previous observation and to so extent road knowledge (ie if you regularly drive the road, you know what fixed hazards are up ahead, and hence can make a more informed decision)

    If i’d being driving the mini then:

    Approaching a car in the LH lane travelling slower than i am would immediately result in actions, typically

    1) Reduction in closing speed, so the point where should they move right, i can stop without hitting them (of course, as speed is time/distance) at some point, if you are going to pass them, this becomes impossible, but realistically, closing speed ought to be appropriate to maintain ones safe space.

    2) Position my car to the RHS of the RH lane to maximise visibility and the size of my safe space, and ensure i sit in that cars blind spot for the minimum amount of time

    3) Observing the truck coming down the slip road, i know where they are going, i can assume they are likely to be slower than a car, and hence the car in the LH lane may pull right to avoid/let out that truck. (the “pinch” again)

    Again, depending on exact timing, hazards and conditions:

    a) Slowed down well before i’d got anywhere near the car, presented them with a space in the RH lane (i wouldn’t flash them out, the lane is there for them if they want, i won’t signal you to use it). Allowed the car to pull out and pass the truck

    b) Accelerated, so as to pass the car BEFORE they get to the truck and pull out

    c) Accelerated hard, swerved across the slip road de-lineation markings, behind the car in the LH lane, undertaken the truck on the verge as it moves rh onto the main carriageway, whilst giving both drivers the finger and blowing my “dukes of hazzard” horn….

    (ok, perhaps not option C, but it’s an option right??? 😉

    Premier Icon DezB
    Subscriber

    Pay attention
    Forward plan
    Anticipate hazards
    Don’t be a dick

    Da edumacation never thtops on dis site dus it.

    Premier Icon DezB
    Subscriber

    @wrightyson – here’s a way to post footage to the cops

    National Dash Cam Safety Portal

    Premier Icon maxtorque
    Subscriber

    “Without knowing anything other that what’s been written on this thread, how in the wide, wide world of sports can you conclude that the OP deliberately obstructed the Mini driver?”

    i didn’t. the don’t obstruct other deliberately, what ever the circumstance” quote is referring to the poster on the first page who suggest they deliberately slow down when someone comes up fast behind them in order to obstruct them because they are speeding

    The OP made a mistake. Due to a lack of observation, forward planning, training or experience, they got themselves into a dangerous situation that could have been entirely avoided. In this case, they were not the idiots, or the ones who initiated the situation, but as i maintain, being “right” is great and all, but not if it comes at the cost of being “dead”.

    In the ideal world, all drivers would be considerate, observe and avoid conflict, but that ideal world doesn’t exist. Fortunately, there are some really simple, really easy to carry out techniques to avoid conflict, that massively reduce your individual chances of being involved in an accident. Those techniques do however sometimes require you to put your pride aside and be the one to defuse the situation, to pro-actively change your speed or path in order to lower the risks.

    On our modern, fast crowded roads, these situations are becoming more and more common. Road rage is real, it affects all of us, so all i am recommending is that you do your best to drive to avoid it…….

    Premier Icon thepurist
    Subscriber

    Due to a lack of observation, forward planning, training or experience, they got themselves into a dangerous situation that could have been entirely avoided.

    Ever think the mini driver could have avoided it using precisely the same techniques?

    Premier Icon russl
    Subscriber

    Maxtorque, are you geex but in a car?

    Premier Icon maxtorque
    Subscriber

    Not only could have the mini driver avoided the incident, even worse for them they SHOULD have avoided the incident.

    It’s clear the mini driver was a **** and the OP got mixed up in their ****tery, for what ever reason. It wasn’t the OP’s fault, but they could have de-escalated the situation. Lets be honest, look at the pic the OP has put up, we could very well be sat here with both drivers up in front of the courts for causing death by dangerous driving. And that is my only point, who ever started it, it’s in your best interest to be the one to do what-ever is necessary to avoid the situation spiraling out of control.

    Don’t get me wrong, that is hard, especially for us men, to put our pride aside to be the one accept the situation and defuse it, especially when we feel it’s the other drivers “fault”

    I’m not geex, because i can happily admit i’m not a great driver and there are plenty of mistakes i’ve made and continue to make, that i can always learn from others, no matter their skill or experience level. But on the flip side, i’ve been lucky enough to have a job where driving, and driving very high performance cars, has allowed me to gain a skill set beyond that of the average driver on our roads. But being “better than average” does not make me great, far from it. The biggest difference that an advanced driver can bring is attitude, rather than any particular skill. Particularly being able to analyse what happened when you (inevitably) make a mistake is a true advantage, and one i try to use wherever possible

    Premier Icon maxtorque
    Subscriber

    BTW, for cases such as the OP’s it would be interesting to see the entire, un-edited footage, especially if their dash cam includes a rear facing camera.

    I’m not suggesting they actually did wrong, but what ever they did annoyed the other driver to the point where they were willing to cause an accident to get back at the OP, and it would be instructive for all to see exactly what that was………..

    Premier Icon maxtorque
    Subscriber

    BTW, just for reference, this is the level of stupidity on our roads:

    X Factor star crashes car after lobbing peanuts at driver in road rage row

    Watch how a minor incident ramps up, and how drivers with no driving skill end up, upside down in the hedge! (thanks to modern cars, they both walked away, had there been pedestrians or a bus stop where they crashed they would both be doing time for man-slaughter…..)

    Premier Icon crazyjenkins01
    Subscriber

    (I am NOT a driving god)

    I have to agree with some of what maxtorque is saying. Good observation is the first step to Avoidance of a hazard. Or in H&S speak Elimination of the hazard. If you can eliminate the hazard (as he says avoid conflict) this isn’t the best option in hierarchy of control so for risk. That being said, mini driver was a weapons-grade “C-bomb” for his/her actions.

    @pondo, I know a guy who most definitely would have been safer with a bit more speed (restricted vehicle) which would have helped him when the lorry he was overtaking drifted into his lane and nearly rammed him into the central reservations. Different circumstance I know but it does happen.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    Quite.

    Accelerating to avoid an accident is rarely the best option. But it is an option, and is it not good to have as many options as possible at your disposal?

    Not exactly the same scenario, but it’s happened to me. Driving through a lights-controlled crossroads in Manchester, car coming from the left ran the red light at speed. If I’d dropped anchor he’d have taken my front end off; done nothing and he’d have t-boned me; swerved too far and I’m into oncoming traffic. So I booted it, hard, whilst moving over to the right as much as I could without encroaching into traffic. He shot behind me missing me by not much, I don’t think he even slowed down.

    In hindsight maybe it was the wrong thing to do as it was a risk, but I had to make a decision fast and I cannot see any other way I could have avoided that collision other than better observation to see him coming earlier. I’ve learned from that and now never trust a green light, I always double-check traffic from the sides.

    It’s rare, but it does happen. There’s probably other instances over the years if I were to give it more thought. The drifting vehicles CJ describes has certainly happened to me more than once, but again forward planning is the best mitigation here, don’t hang around alongside other vehicles.

    Premier Icon crazyjenkins01
    Subscriber

    Unfortunately Cougar, not much you can do when while overtaking a lorry (overtaking another lorry) and said lorry gives it an extra 1-2mph and you now can’t get past! It’s why I’ve been trying to convince work that setting the limit at 80mph still stops the excessive speed but gives you that little bit extra as an option if needed. Ive lost count of the number of cars who seemingly “don’t want to let that white van man over take me!” and I then have no choice but to drop back a whole car length to pull back behind the them, or keep going till they’re forced to slow due to other traffic in front if I can’t drop back. Also, leap-frog with the same car for half an hour or more sometimes because my speed is constant and theirs isn’t!

    johndoh
    Member

    I always double-check traffic from the sides.

    I assumed everyone did this anyway? As my driving instructor told me some 30+ years ago ‘red means stop, amber means stop, green means proceed with caution’.

    Premier Icon maxtorque
    Subscriber

    Just got an email telling my to stop trying to avoid the swear filter!

    apparently

    1) the “t” word is considered swearing (i guess the mods live sheltered lives eh 😉 )

    and

    2) T then a letter, then a star then a letter is not ok, but 4 stars is?

    I’m not saying we should have a free-for-all on swearing on this forum, but really, that seems a little bit silly in 2019 doesn’t it?

    (mods note: i’m not complaining, i genuinely didn’t know that to swear i had to make sure i used all stars rather than some letters separated by stars, from now on i’ll make sure i swear in full symbol mode)

    Premier Icon pondo
    Subscriber

    The OP made a mistake.

    Right – I think I might be getting a handle on your thinking now – what mistake do you think he made?

    Fair play @crazyjenkins01 and @Cougar, moving past a drifting vehicle is of courses an entirely legitimate reason to go full loud (and getting the F out of the way of red light jumpers, although thank the good lord I’ve not had that happen to me).

    5plusn8
    Member

    I think in some european countries a vehicle is not allowed to overtake another vehicle unless its going a percentage (10?) faster. This prevents the 48/52 lorry standoffs that last for bloody ages on dual carriageways.
    I am sure I saw it on a doc about a fire in a big alpine tunnel?

    tomparkin
    Member

    I have to agree with some of what maxtorque is saying

    Yeah. I think they’re getting a bit of a pasting for coming across as a little patronizing (I’m sure not intentionally). But I agree with what they have said. If people want to drive badly, let them get on with it. There’s nothing I can do, in my car, that will teach them the error of their ways, so I’d much sooner minimise any potential conflict and let them jog on.

    For reference, I am not a driving god 🙂

    5plusn8
    Member

    @maxtorque just swear as much as you like, the filter sorts it all out. Its actually a lot easier.

    Premier Icon crazyjenkins01
    Subscriber

    Yeah I get that @tomparkin, and that’s what I try to do (most of the time!) but I won’t get forced to move if I can’t do it safely. I’ll move to protect my self and others from idiots, but I won’t move just cos someone’s on my ar$e and cant wait 10 seconds

    Premier Icon duncancallum
    Subscriber

    Meh

    Guy pulls out guy behind is a prick.

    Guy should maybe check mirrors more often

    Prick should be done as not only a prick hes an angry dangerous reactive prick.

    Dezb I’m glad you find my comments help full. And using poor English to suggest I’m or other people who cant construct sentences are thick makes all us dyslexic feel really speshul

    Theres **** everywhere online on the roads just be aware they’re there

Viewing 40 posts - 121 through 160 (of 176 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.