I was pointing out how silly and full of assumption his original comment was geetee…

Ah OK forgive me, I misunderstood.

Regarding kids not getting in to the same school as their older sibling, I don’t know how it works in other areas, but there are at least 5 kids in my oldest son’s class who have younger siblings applying for school this year. The thing is, all of them apart from us are outside catchment, which puts them lower in priority than kids without siblings who are in catchment. I think they should all get in given the amount of out-of-catchment the school takes, but no guarantees and it’s easy to see how such a situation could happen – the politics will be interesting if all but one of them get in (I think of the 4 the furthest away, so the least likely to get in is the one who’s dad is a governor!). Of course policies vary from place to place.

Schools start at 9 and end at 3 – its not always easy to manage two people jobs around those hours including travel to and from, especially when yu need those jobs to earn money in the first place – isn’t this obvious?

I’m with you on this. The length of a school day is based around how long a child can sustain academic endeavour. It has the spin off of freeing teachers up to prepare lesson mark etc when the kids leave. It’s still a royal pain in the arse for parents doing normal jobs to have to collect them or be at home for them. Kids still can have plenty of capacity to be away from home in this part of the day without missing out – they have just had their fill of “learning”. Schools don’t have the resources to en mass supervise the entire cohort and society seems to have moved on from allowing kids to roam free at the end of the day like we did in the 70s and 80s so paid after school clubs make perfect sense. From what I’ve seen a lot of them are great with opportunities to get homework done in the right environment, social engagement and physical activity. So much better than most kids get at home at that time of day plonked in front of a telly.

I don’t think any parent should be made to feel guilty for using the services of a good after school club.

It depends on your LA.

In Bristol there is no catchment, just distance and siblings factor higher than distance so that if/when you get your first kid into a school, you’re near enough guaranteed the second,etc will get in too.

its not always easy to manage two people jobs

Surely one person’s job? It doesn’t take two parents to take children to and from school.

In Bristol there is no catchment, just distance and siblings factor higher than distance so that if/when you get your first kid into a school, you’re near enough guaranteed the second,etc will get in too.

That’s pretty sensible when you’re in a city and the next nearest school isn’t that much further away. Here in the country our local school is a half mile walk, the next nearest school is several miles away. Not getting your kid into the local school is as much of a nightmare as having your kids at different schools. As you say policies vary.

Surely one person’s job? It doesn’t take two parents to take children to and from school.

Not all children have two parents, which you might realise if you pulled your head out from up your arse and observed the world around you.

Don’t be silly, it’s far easier to make sweeping generalisations about the nasty people whose kids are forced kicking, screaming and miserable to go to breakfast/afterschool clubs than actually consider that real life isn’t quite so simple in all cases…

Just to add, I remember writing a paper years ago on choice in schools. There’s plenty of evidence (I’m assuming there still is) that overall choice is a bad thing for the make up of schools and leads to increased “ghettoisation”, which leads to more demand for choice as the contrasting demographic of the cohorts becomes more distinct which leads to increased levels of dissatisfaction. There was also interesting stuff about the effective increasing of the catchment area of the school (by allowing more students from outside of the traditional catchment to come to the school) having negative effects on the community feel of the school and the take up of after school activities and sports teams.

johndoh – Member

its not always easy to manage two people jobs

Surely one person’s job? It doesn’t take two parents to take children to and from school.

It often takes 2 peoples jobs to pay the mortgage, bills, childcare etc… And before you ask, yes one of us could stay at home to look after the youngest. By while its achievable Nursery can be a education both morally, socially and literal point of view for kids, rather than hang around adults for their first four years.

Surely he’s trolling….

Not all children have two parents

Nope but I was responding to the post that said two parents can to arrange their jobs around drop offs.

It often takes 2 peoples jobs to pay the mortgage, bills, childcare etc…

And that’s my original point. If it takes two people working full time to afford their lifestyles then perhaps it wasn’t the best idea to have kids.

Nope but I was responding to the post that said two parents can to arrange their jobs around drop offs

that point handnt been made, come on please try harder if you want to play this game

breakfast club and after school club

This I do not get. Sorry.

Surely you have kids and make some sacrifices in order to have at least one parent with them for periods of time whilst they are actually awake?

If it takes two people working full time to afford their lifestyles then perhaps it wasn’t the best idea to have kids.

who is suggesting they both work full time?

This is Bliars fault innit? Get every one into work, working tax credt etc, we are breeding a nation of kids who are not being brought up by their parents.
Nobody answered my q about the scottish system, am I right in thinking its a guaranteed place if you live in catchment?

Get every one into work

What a despicable concept!

we are breeding a nation of kids who are not being brought up by their parents.

You are saying that like it’s always a bad thing! I’ve worked with plenty of kids where the very worst aspect of their upbringing is the bit done by their parents! I’m about to meet one in a minute – god awful woman! Sadly there is not some latent built in switch that’s activated at the birth of a child that makes you automatically the very best person to be responsible for bringing it up.

Slightly deflated after calculating the cost ok school dinners

Perhaps get them to make there own pack lunches at breakfast club.?

Luckily I earn enough so my wife can do the drop off and pick up in the Audi Q7, wouldn’t want my boys picking up up bad habits from the naughty kids in after school club.

Very poor troll I know.

No convert I think work is a great idea, but I don’t like the idea that staying at home to look after your kids is not considered a job. Housewives/husbands should be given working tax credits, and other benefits. Then there is choice. Right now most people have no choice, its work or poverty.

I don’t think all parents are as bad as you so, most are in fact rather good.

johndoh – Member

Not all children have two parents

Nope but I was responding to the post that said two parents can to arrange their jobs around drop offs.

It often takes 2 peoples jobs to pay the mortgage, bills, childcare etc…

And that’s my original point. If it takes two people working full time to afford their lifestyles then perhaps it wasn’t the best idea to have kids.

You are Edukator and I claim my £5.

Let me tell you now, you don’t have to have an extravagent lifestyle to need to earn enough money to afford put your kid in a nursery.

My bills in September will be 6/8th of my income, steadily getting better as KJ02 get older / nursery fees reduce – I won’t be doing to much thats extravagant with the remaining 2 8ths….

Don’t feed the troll guys!

steadily getting better as KJ02 get older

Aha, ha, ahhahahahahahahahhahahahahhh! 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

You reckon?

Oh boy is real life going to surprise you, seriously.

This is Bliars fault innit?

also Thatchers for helping make housing so expensive 😆

Surely you have kids and make some sacrifices in order to have at least one parent with them for periods of time whilst they are actually awake?

we are breeding a nation of kids who are not being brought up by their parents.

I was neglected by two working parents and turned out fine, in fact one was working long days and the other was working 12hr nights and 4/2 shift pattern so were were only together as a family one weekend in 4 as well. Lets try not to get two spiral eyed about it, a breakfast / after school club is about the hour or two between school closing time – 3ish- and the end of the adult working day -5/6ish.

If peoples kids were being delivered home asleep by taxi at 11pm that would be something different. But its not that is it.

I think the school day should be extended (its a shorter school day than when I was a kid – I can remember my school day being cut from a 4.30pm finish to a 4pm and a whole hour has been shaved off since then)- not in the sense that the lessons should be longer but there should be more, longer breaks and more things than lessons – like daily assemblies. You know – fun, being a kid, that stuff.

I’m just coming to the end of a project with a school and their school day is shite. No assembly, 3 long class sessions, one 15 minute morning break, 45mins to gulp your lunch,the whole afternoon without a break, kicked out 3 hours before adults finish work…thats shit frankly, the days has had all of the kids’ time sliced out of it.

Right now most people have no choice, its work or poverty.

theres a third option where you get to have your cake and eat it: Work and poverty 🙂

Crikey – I’ve put one through this process already I’m aware… I was talking specifically about descreasing nursery fees per age of child…. My 4yo already wants his own ipad 😯

Crikey – I’ve put one through this process already I’m aware

I’ve got a 20, a 19 and a 16 year old; seriously, nursery fees are pocket change…

maccruiskeen, yes I’m not saying working parents is all bad, but I jsut dislike the idea that most middle/lower income families do not have a choice.

I have been lucky and my wife had the choice, so is not working currently. The kids are 6 and 3, she wanted to be at home with them. I like it too, and hope we can stay in that position until they go to uni.

It is the lack of choice that bugs me.Children enrich life and it is dad for a parent (especially a mum) if they cannot spend lots of time together.

And yes I recognise the third option…

Crikey, All the more reason for Mrs K to work 3 days a week and keep her career alive then, rather than stand by the kitchen sink as perhaps Mrs Johndoe does…

Indeed and that’s what I often notice – blokes saying that sacrifices need to be made which translates into “the wife should stay home”. fine if she’s happy to do that but I reckon that a lot of the blokes suggesting it wouldn’t fancy giving up work entirely.

Similarly a lot of ‘the wives’ prefer to do some work to retain some adult contact and a career to some extent. Kids in a breakfast/afterschool club for a short time for some days each week is hardly neglect is it?

No – and in my case its only for three days a week (as Mrs K is avialable the other 2 days) plus 8 – 5.30 has been the case since he started at nursery at 1yo so he knows no different.

I’m just coming to the end of a project with a school and their school day is shite. No assembly, 3 long class sessions, one 15 minute morning break, 45mins to gulp your lunch,the whole afternoon without a break…

That’s nothing new. It’s the same set up that I had when I was at secondary school in the 80s.

thats shit frankly, the days has had all of the kids’ time sliced out of it.

Not really, the kids now have loads of time available to them after school.

the Scottish sytem has its points. Actually IMHO it should be the only option. Kids should go to local schools. the choice issue is wrong. Think of the school runs complaints that would drop if more people walked.

mattsccm, I agree, but the converse opinion is that schools in posh areas tend to be better, so poor people cannot buy into that.
You have to ask why schools in posh areas are better, I personally think it has nothing to do with the money…

I don’t think all parents are as bad as you

Just so you know I think this is one of the worst things I’ve read on this site and I’ve been here a long, long time.

Just so you know I think this is one of the worst things I’ve read on this site and I’ve been here a long, long time.

I’m sure he can speak for himself a_a, but I think this is a typo somehow. My first reaction was that it was a pretty horrible thing to say, but I’m sure he meant “suggest” or something afterwards.

Anyway, he should correct it if he did. Let’s not get the pitchforks out yet. 🙂

Which school Kryton?

You’re Enfield way rant you?

MM

Thanks DD, AA cant get past his hatred of me so he has to quote everything I say out of context. Its a bit sad.
Convert and I were having a civil conversation, he mentioned

I’ve worked with plenty of kids where the very worst aspect of their upbringing is the bit done by their parents! I’m about to meet one in a minute – god awful woman! Sadly there is not some latent built in switch that’s activated at the birth of a child that makes you automatically the very best person to be responsible for bringing it up.

Which I was responding to.

There was nothing in what convert wrote that alluded to his parenting style, so I cannot see how I could have commented on his parenting style. Its just typical STW, particularly AA, only reading that which makes you froth, instead of understanding the context of the conversation.

And convert, if I insulted you I am truly sorry, I meant to say as bad as you think or something along those lines. Apologies for the mistype.
(In fact I dunno how the “so” got in there, I think I was being a bad parent and ignoring my 3 year old whilst she was hassling me, and messed up my edit).

I am mortified to think that I have upset you convert with what was written there. Apologies.

, so I cannot see how I could have commented on his parenting style

so why did you?

My youngest son got an offer on my one and only choice of primary school.

I will use after school clubs because I have to
As a single parent , it is damned if you do and damned if you don’t work.

If I chose to be a full time parent, like plenty of your wives are, would I be doing what is best for my children, or would I be a lazy benefit scrounger?
I am working full time, but does this mean I am neglecting my children by using after school clubs, or am I doing what should be done by not claiming benefits?

Can’t win either way 😐

My youngest son got an offer on my one and only choice of primary school.

I will use after school clubs because I have to
As a single parent , it is damned if you do and damned if you don’t work.

If I chose to be a full time parent, like plenty of your wives are, would I be doing what is best for my children, or would I be a lazy benefit scrounger?
I am working full time, but does this mean I am neglecting my children by using after school clubs, or am I doing what should be done by not claiming benefits?

Can’t win either way 😐

anagallis_arvensis – Member

,” so I cannot see how I could have commented on his parenting style”

so why did you?
Posted 3 minutes ago # Report-Post

Yes aa I didnt. Try and be civil.

and it’s so good it came up twice 😀