Sick Bikes and welding

Just keeping an eye on Sick’s Instagram feed as I find some of the stuff they’re doing quite interesting.

When brazing does the look of the weld have any bearing on strength?

It just seems, to my completely uneducated eye, that the welding appears to be quite messy compared to other custom framebuilders I follow. I guess if it makes no difference to strength then its irrelevant to a point, but just curious, especially as whoever is making the frames is supposed to be highly experienced etc. Link to one image post below (several images to scroll through) where it looks like the brazing has been cleaned up a bit but still looks untidy. I noticed that one image of a brake mount weld which seemed very ‘blobby’ and where Portus Cycles highlighted it looked a mess has disappeared.

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Swipe for some fairly hardcore images from Bear Kustoms – prep work for the ColourBlock Gnarcissist @ketobear_pt gonna blown you away with this one @steelisrealmtb – This one is gonna show off Bryan’s work @downlandcycles Store : http://www.sickbicycle.co Email us – Sick.Bicycles@gmail.com #enduro #mtb #853 #reynolds #brazed #cycling #leadersofthenewschool #shred #gnar #ohnomorebikes #theTOOLOUDbrand No small brand should have all that power ™

A post shared by Sick! Bicycle Co. (@sickbicycles) on Nov 30, 2017 at 11:30am PST

Pretty welds are not necessarily strong

Strong welds are not necessarily pretty.

But a skilled craftsman can do both.

But that head tube gusset doesn’t have a continuous braze by the looks of it.

Looks like standard brazing to me, it just needs cleaning up… Like standard brazing needs.

Looks like standard brazing to me, it just needs cleaning up… Like standard brazing needs.

Pretty much this – every frame builder who posts ‘work in progress’ type pics shows that at some point. They then spend hours filing things down to that lovely smooth finish you just want to have clearcoated.

Brazing isn’t welding 😉

Largely looks like normal unfinished brazing (a couple of bits look a bit gappy maybe) but it’s not selling the frames to me. Nor is their description of them as “peasant crushing technology”, which is also rather confused given that their logo is a Molotov cocktail. I guess being edgy is good even if you can’t work out which direction to be edgy in, yeah?

Looking at their finished frames they don’t appear to sand the fillets before painting so I guess this is the final finish. Which, again, is fine if the joints are sound, but it seems a bit half-baked. Or edgy. Though it does save on significant labour cost that is spent purely on aesthetics, so it’s also pragmatic. The unfinished look works better on the raw frames than on painted ones IMO.

Pretty much this – every frame builder who posts ‘work in progress’ type pics shows that at some point. They then spend hours filing things down to that lovely smooth finish you just want to have clearcoated

Fair enough then. I has bin educated. I was just comparing to the likes of Feather (below and possibly unfair given cost difference) where it just seems smoother and more even when laid down or whatever the terminology is.

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A post shared by Feather Cycles (@feathercycles) on Mar 23, 2017 at 9:54am PDT

Brazing isn’t welding

Realised that after I’d press post and couldn’t change the title 😳

dont worry the cavalry will be here shortly to abuse you .

much like Portuguese Fausto and his flick knife…. its their thing i gather from previous threads.

This man builds a tidy brazed frame, I expect they cost a bit more than a Sick Bike though.

So basically we’re asking why does one unfinished braze not look like another unfinished braze?

That Llewellyn is very pretty. I especially like the sacrificial ridge on the seattube to stop cable rub!

EDIT: OMG! just googled and saw the starting prices! Converting AUD to GBP makes them a little less scary but that’s still very not cheap!

Laying down good fillets takes a lot of practice – but you can lay down rough fillets, file them down, and still have a frame that’s structurally fine.

It’s all the gaps and pitting that’d bother me.

what would you know about the bicycle brazing industry though Ben ? 😉

True 😀

There was a builder whose fillets were so nice that they never needed dressed. I’m sure the name took this as inspiration. I’ll try to find it.

If you want to see good undressed fillets, have a look at a raw lacquer Brompton.

Robin Mather and Tom Warmerdam (Demon) also lay a mean fillet.
Running accounts and newsletters, among other things, for Bespoked I do get sent a lot of pics….I like paint, but am pretty interested what’s underneath!

Brian Curtis does very little finishing of his fillets

by

, on Flickr

i think that pretty much concludes it

Yeah, that’s just made me feel totally inadequate 😉

If you want to see good undressed fillets, have a look at a raw lacquer Brompton.

They do have the advantage of making lots of frames and keeping the ones with the most aesthetically pleasing brazing for the raw finish bikes!

Not super-smooth but soooo nice (Brompton detail)…

That Sick is not only ugly, but as Ben pointed out, the gaps and pitting would possibly worry me.
Rear of that frame doesn’t look particularly straight in the first image either, but could be the angle.

Deamon Frameworks.. now that’s how you braze & finish it.

But it’s okay..

Sick Bikes core values are maximum ultraboost plus juice+ 32

that daemon is lovely.

although generally hidden in paint im a big fan of rob english’ flowing frame lines- seems almost fluid both brazing , tube profiling and geometry

Once again guys I’m a member here you can just ask.

Our frames are built by Bryan Jackson at Downland cycles. He’s been teaching people to build frames and building frames under his own brand for considerable time. You can file down brazes for aesthetic reasons if you wish, these customers didn’t want it. We tend to do it on painted frames but leave them for clearcoat.

Once again people are looking at our Instagram and not happy with our terms and language, stop winding yourself up. For goodness sake for a person you dislike you sure like looking at my stuff in detail! Creepy!

It bothered all you guys but none of you reached out. To talk to us with all your expertise? Didn’t email didn’t say hi. Just sat here and moaned. All of your concern for our customers confined to another thread on singletrack.

Another handbuilt British brand should be celebrated but you have other ideas. I think it’s kinda tragic but there you go.

There is no cavalry just me mate. Here I am. Again. To defend myself AGAIN

Jordan

Once again guys I’m a member here you can just ask.

Our frames are built by Bryan Jackson at Downland cycles. He’s been teaching people to build frames and building frames under his own brand for considerable time. You can file down brazes for aesthetic reasons if you wish, these customers didn’t want it. We tend to do it on painted frames but leave them for clearcoat.

Once again people are looking at our Instagram and not happy with our terms and language, stop winding yourself up. For goodness sake for a person you dislike you sure like looking at my stuff in detail! Creepy!

It bothered all you guys but none of you reached out. To talk to us with all your expertise? Didn’t email didn’t say hi. Just say here and moaned.

Another handbuilt British brand should be celebrated but you have other ideas. I think it’s kinda tragic but there you go.

There is no cavalry just me mate. Here I am

Jordan
And you managed not to say “sick” even once in that post! Respect bro…

I realise I’m old and uncool, but I did begin to wonder if I could get an English translation of the Instagram page…

Fair play 😀

Imagine how awful this feels.

This is what our sport is now.
It’s grotesque.

You can’t even say “oh we wanted to help” because you didn’t – your intention was to ridicule and mock us. To insinuate our work is unsafe.

Have a nice round of applause lads mission accomplished once again I feel totally shit.

This is what our sport is now.
It’s grotesque.

to be fair, this site has been around for a good 15 years and this kind of gobshittery has always been around.

You don’t think think it’s suspect that A competitor commented on our profile … when we both just launched a gearbox bike

Damn straight I deleted that. No other company on earth would deal with that – I personally messaged them too. Come on that’s unbelievably bad business

“Just been keeping an eye on their feed”

Why?

If you continued to read

as I find some of the stuff they’re doing quite interesting

I “keep an eye” on 44 bikes feed https://www.instagram.com/44bikes/ I doubt I’ll ever buy one but…their welds are nice

Bryan at Downland knows his onions. Xx

yes I’m viewing on mobile it wasn’t easy to separate out with the ads popping up

I’m not sure if that’s aimed at me or not….but fwiw I quite like some of the stuff you’re doing, particularly with the slack 29er hardtail. I know nothing about welding. To me the welds looked messy relative to other framebuilders I follow. Does that matter from a structural point of view, I had no idea, for all I know there are thousands of frames out there where the joins started like that but were then cleaned up. Why not ask you directly, well I can’t imagine you’d say anything negative about your own brand. Plus there are at least a couple of people on here that clearly know how to weld and I can’t see why they would have an interest in watching you fail by unnecessarily rubbishing your work.

Anyhoo, just looking for an opinion when browsing various slack hardails and that’s what this place is for isn’t it? Take some answers with a huge pinch of salt, see any ‘teach me how to jump’ thread as an example. But at the same time you’ll probably get some decent knowledge thrown in.

Edit ; mixing welds and brazing again, shows how much I know!

“Just been keeping an eye on their feed”

..as I find some of the stuff they’re doing quite interesting.

I would say the OP posted because he’s not seen a fillet brazed frame finished in this way before and it looks unsuaul. It’s not the smooth finish we see leave other builders (ala. Deamon, English, etc.) regularly. Given some of the gaps and pitting, he’s querying whether this is normal. It’s a forum, where else would he ask? Chances are he hasn’t got any engineering/frame building friends, so this would be a logical place to ask.

Don’t take it to heart Jordan, this is after all the internetz (and STW at that 😛 ). You can’t please everyone.

[Just downloading the podcast for the drive home- come highly recommended..]

i must have missed the part where any one said any of your products were unsafe.

I “keep an eye” on 44 bikes feed https://www.instagram.com/44bikes/ I doubt I’ll ever buy one but…their welds are nice

Yes, been following him for a while now but also unlikely to ever buy one. I enjoy seeing what the various framebuilders produce although it isn’t good for idle bike spending speculation!

Edit Who is the ‘competitor’ on this thread with a gearbox bike?

I’m certainly not commenting to put you down or to be nasty – and I’m not competing with you either. But you put pics of raw brazes online, of course other framebuilders are going to comment. You should see some of the comments I’ve had!

I think most framebuilders would want to constructively help. There’s another pic on your Instagram of a head tube which looks perfectly decent. But some of these joints are a bit sloppy. Probably not dangerous, but there’s pitting and gaps in the fillets. Slap filler or a thicker powdercoat on and no-one’s going to know or care, but if you want to showcase your fillet brazes then you need to get a little better at fillet brazing.

Should you want to check our work in the real world

We’ll be exhibiting at both the london bike show and bespoked.

Any direct questions

Jordan@sickbicycle.co