Thanks DrP. I’ve been mulling over a similar change (chopping in an estate for a van) for months, so this makes interesting reading. Also “barely have time to put the washing up away” 🙂

In my case the “other” car is a panda so the van would have to do duty transporting family and all the stuff from Aberdeen down to southern England and back a few times a year, which puts me off vans a bit.

If I’m honest I doubt we’d sleep in it much either. The main appeal is really a space to store the bike inside and somewhere to get changed after a ride!

I ride a couple of times a week all year round and usually end the ride at least sweaty and often covered in crap. Even if I peal off the outer layers and stick the heater on full I’ll often arrive home cold and clammy. Stripping down to my altogether in forest car parks also gets old (especially in January).

I’ve priced up a Caddy Maxi Kombi in viper green a few times now 🙂

Hmmm…
Now the wife, who was initially hesitant, is showing signs of keenenss…”!!!

Oh I don’t know… I make hundreds of decisions every day, but can’t decide if a van’s worth it.

Basically, what I’d like is a POSHER van than the one i’m tyoing with – I like the comfort, radio, A/C, electric stuff of the octavia (hatch, not estate, BTW)…
But I like the ‘idea’ of a van…

for about £3k i could have the van, a crash rated rock and roll, and start lining it out…

But then, despite being “captain spend his money”, I’m not sure if it’ll be pointless (I know ulitimately life is pointless, so I COULD JFDI and see how it goes I suppose….)

However, it’s not really the lack of vehicle that hinders where and when I could ride..it’s LIFE!!

DrP

Maybe what you want is the last of the Mark II Ford Galaxy / VW Sharan / Seat Alhambra.

All the rear seats are removable which makes it as close to a small van as you could wish but you still get all of the cool car stuff like aircon and electric windows.

Easily big enough to sleep in and transport bikes etc.

The front seats in my mark II galaxy rotated through 180 degrees so you could face backwards as well.*

*whilst parked obviously . Driving while facing backwards is dangerous, kids.

Pidge you have wanted a van for at least 10 years, isn’t it about time you just got on with it? I think its a mistake to look at it in simple cost / benefit terms.

Mine, the panel van you saw at HOTS, is now converted. Seats 4, simple galley, bed on rails so slides right forward if just using as a bike van. Much smaller and more usable than the old sprinter we took to the Alps. Really pleased with it.

If you are not currently carting a family’s worth of bikes + tents etc to every race, then you are fine as you are. But you might hit that point soon if your kids want to race too. Then a combi van is great. But it is a van, not a lifestyle conversion thing. Just a big estate car really.

We got a van when we started taking 2 cars to camping bike races.

And get one with aircon too. No good for long journeys without once the temperature hits about 20

Basically, what I’d like is a POSHER van than the one i’m tyoing with – I like the comfort, radio, A/C, electric stuff of the octavia (hatch, not estate, BTW)…
But I like the ‘idea’ of a van…

Easy solution. Buy a nice van & make it your daily driver, not some secondary afterthought. Embrace van life 100%. 🙂

I’ve only had company cars for most of my life, but this time last year went self employed. I looked at vans, but insurance for non-work vans (and I’m a consultant so don’t need a van for work) was prohibitively expensive.

I tend to ride alone, so my estate car is ideal for bikes, and nice to drive the rest of the time.

but insurance for non-work vans (and I’m a consultant so don’t need a van for work) was prohibitively expensive.

330 for me n the wife to drive her car and my van, both of us. LWB T5 was last van, and insurance was the same, I’d try an insurer that does van cover such as aviva, brentacre etc.

Maybe what you want is the last of the Mark II Ford Galaxy / VW Sharan / Seat Alhambra.

All the rear seats are removable which makes it as close to a small van as you could wish but you still get all of the cool car stuff like aircon and electric windows.

Easily big enough to sleep in and transport bikes etc.

Big enough to sleep in with bike and kit too? I’d doubt it.

Is she really coming around to the idea though?
My Missus often says she’d like a camper but when the idea of her driving it and/or the cramped conditions (relative to renting a cottage) come up her enthusiasm seems to drop off a bit…

Perhaps you need a halfway option to sort of demonstrate the potential of a van.

Dare I suggest a larger MPV type vehicle?
Something Touran/Galaxy sized, it’s still a car but remove/fold away some rear seats and it’s big enough to transport a bike and sleep in, carry family camping gear. It’s not quite a van, but has some of the benefits of one while maintaining some of the day to day practicality of a car…

Alternatively if it’s primarily a van for your personal use could you lower your sights from a full sized panel van to a car derived ‘Combi’ type on (Berlingo/Kangoo type maybe)?

More “Vanny” than an MPV could make it into a compact camper for 1-2 people, could be used with an awning maybe, capable of fully assembled bike transport, cheaper to own than a full panel van?

Either of the above should act as a stepping stone/gateway drug for a full camper habit…

Having said all of that, I am now far keener on a decent family tent, yes it’s a bit more faff to put up/take down, but you can go camping with just about any vehicle and it is super cheap (by comparison)…

Big enough to sleep in with bike and kit too? I’d doubt it.

For one person. Deffo.

Maybe what you want is the last of the Mark II Ford Galaxy / VW Sharan / Seat Alhambra.

All the rear seats are removable which makes it as close to a small van as you could wish but you still get all of the cool car stuff like aircon and electric windows.

Easily big enough to sleep in and transport bikes etc.
I can’t speak for DrP obviously but for me the ideal is being able to stick the bikes inside separately …
I’m sick of sticking 2 bikes (and sometimes more) inside the saloon back seat and its getting expensive (just found scratched stanchions on the kids SIDS) … it would also be nice to be able to lock the bikes inside the van, have tool kits handy etc.

My envy at people who rock up and practically ride the bike out of the back of the van just keeps growing … I’d want to somehow secure the bikes (preferably with the back wheel at least still on) inside the van/people carrier .. rock up somewhere for a weekends riding and not have someone block me in so I can’t get the bikes back in… (etc.)

A full camper I don’t think I’d use but somewhere out of the rain, a place to lock bikes and work (in a limited way) and in extremis chuck in a camping mat etc. would be a great lifestyle…

Practically every weekend I spend best part of an hour getting bikes and stuff in/out of the car without damaging… yesterday I drove the SIL to the airport for 7am .. got home to get the kid dressed then had to load everything but the bikes (I’d done them the night before) .. by the time I get the bikes ready to ride I’m already knackered.

Seems small, but jumping off the bike and rolling it into the van, throwing a bungee over it and shutting doors is so much nicer than the faff stevexc describes.

Then going to a cafe and not having to get a seat so you can watch your car is also nice.

Seems small, but jumping off the bike and rolling it into the van, throwing a bungee over it and shutting doors is so much nicer than the faff stevexc describes.

Then going to a cafe and not having to get a seat so you can watch your car is also nice.

All of this- we fancied something that would remove most of the faff of days or a couple of nights away. Granted, the free/already-paid-for faff has now been replaced with the extra expense of running a van 😆

and in reality, thinking baout driving a few hundred miles in a hot sweaty van without AC is a bit off putting…

It’s not as bad as it sounds. Because the roof is a long ay above your head and separated by the overhead storage, the windscreen is nearer vertical, there’s only a small flat bit of dashboard, and fewer windows. They don’t get anywhere near as hot and uncomfortable as cars.

I was out for 10 hours in the work transit driving around London on the hottest day of the year, I drank about 3l of water and needed a shower by the end, but the only uncomfortable bit was the Blackwall tunnel.

Seems small, but jumping off the bike and rolling it into the van, throwing a bungee over it and shutting doors is so much nicer than the faff stevexc describes.

Then going to a cafe and not having to get a seat so you can watch your car is also nice.

Yep … I don’t even usually put the bikes away before we go to the cafe due to the faff…I think about it then realise by the time i go through that, potentially moving the car to get the bikes in etc. I’ll just drive home.

It’s not much hassle as a one off but as a weekly thing it gets pretty old..
Same putting wheels on, I’m forever looking for somewhere soft to park to flip the bikes over so the brakes/shifters etc. don’t get damaged or pulling out a rag or the foam I use over the forks (that obviously didn’t work yesterday) to stick the bars on… a bungee and van really starts to sound attractive. Way more than an estate or people carrier… (unless they can be secured stood up in the people carrier)

With the money you are looking at spending I think you’ll end up with something ropey that you won’t enjoy driving or get the most out of.

Proper day van things go for good money but they seem to keep their value so maybe worth it

I don’t think there’s sufficient man maths being applied here yet.

Replace newer/more valuable car (Yeti) rather than the Octavia? Maybe still not in your ballpark, but Evans Halshaw had pre-reg, <100miles Vivaro doublecabs in posh Sportive trim with all the toys for £19.5k inc VAT a month or so ago. Second hand ones of those perhaps.

A/C and bikes inside are two of the reasons we’re swapping to a newer van. Paranoid about bikes on the tailgate rack. And a/c, yes not essential but so many of us are accustomed to comforts nowadays. Lack of a/c in last van was only an issue on European trips, but you know it’s extreme conditions when your stash of Jelly Babies congeal into one big lump.

^^ Not sure the owher of the Yeti (skoda finance) would take too kindly to me flogging it!!

It IS a tough decision, because ultimately it’s a toy. And though I’m never one to deny myself a toy, it’s the OTHER costs (repairs, insurance, tax, MOT) that bother me about cars and vans…

DrP

It IS a tough decision, because ultimately it’s a toy. And though I’m never one to deny myself a toy, it’s the OTHER costs (repairs, insurance, tax, MOT) that bother me about cars and vans…

True, but there isn’t much reason to assume the van will be any worse than the Octavia.

The reason we haven’t got a van is I have a 70mile/day commute so fuel economy and cheap tyres are a winner, and the OH has a 12yr old fiesta for her “4 miles into the town center, would be quicker on a bike but she’s too posh” commute. So neither of us would want to be the one to use the ‘2nd car’ / van. If I went back to a commute I could ride every day then I’d get a van for the ~5000 or so ‘leisure’ miles I do a year without a second thought.

I love mine, only motor vehicle we have.

If I went back to a commute I could ride every day then I’d get a van for the ~5000 or so ‘leisure’ miles I do a year without a second thought.

Not helping…!

DrP

Here’s a hypothetical question, could a nicely equipped new “lifestyle” van be obtained through one of these HPC type arrangements rather than having to buy a used one outright, kit it out for yourself and then maintain and insure it?

I’m told every other car on the road is leased these days, why not use the same method to lay your hands on a fun bus?

If so how costly would such a thing be, and how does that actually compare to the cost of buying a used van?

it’s the OTHER costs (repairs, insurance, tax, MOT) that bother me about cars and vans…

But if you treat it as you would any other toy and keep it well maintained and serviced then it shouldn’t let you down. The first journey ours did after we got it home was down to our local indie for a timing belt/water pump and oil & filter which was a couple of hundred quid well spent. After that it’s ‘just’ a case of keeping on top of things which isn’t a huge PITA if you keep on top of things as and when they occur (especially if it’s a second vehicle!)

Most would think nothing of chucking a few hundred quid at some forks or wheels they don’t really need that are ‘reduced’ but baulk at chucking the same at their car or van to keep it sweet.

Van chat! We bought our Vito Dualiner off here 10 years plus ago! We were going to Dh events at the time with an estate. It has been a great edition to the house, it is a second vehicle (well prob 3rd or so) though I prob drive it more than the other vehicles ( there are a few here).
Like someone above, I had a BMW130M and the van, 130 long gone but van is still here. Super useful for bikes, dogs, tools, lots of people, (had had x6 people and x6 bikes – and x8 of each on uplifts, odd furniture run, tip runs – just carrying stuff. Currently has three seats across the front, (we were going to capts but now prefer the three) one seat behind, one tool chest, one bike, two propellers, four jerry cans and stack of random might need kit! Have slept in it lots, worked well but have a camper now as well, standing up is so much easier!
It’s tough as old boots, hardly needs anything doing to it, spending on it, tyres £50 a corner, last 40k. Service, mot it it every year, don’t think it’s ever been over £200. Ours does 40mpg on a run. Sold it once but it came back. Had a Shogun and 110 and a ‘posh van, in its time, all have come and gone. It’s like a pair of old jeans now and staying till seriously worn out.
I really like the ‘chill factor of just cruising in the van every where’.
Insurance this year was £70 and that includes a 20 year old! (Though camper was 58!!)
Recommendation to DrP, (we have bought and sold to each other over the years) get roughly the spec you want up front, don’t modify etc.. lots about from £500 to 15k.
Good luck R

I really like the ‘chill factor of just cruising in the van every where’.

+1

Fair enough that some people don’t get this, but I think it’s made me a much more chilled out driver – rarely give a stuff about “making progress” any more.

Recommendation to DrP, (we have bought and sold to each other over the years) get roughly the spec you want up front, don’t modify etc.. lots about from £500 to 15k.

This is quite a nice renault traffic – previously was a MX shuttle van, and now owened by a chap who refurbs allow wheels – never had ‘anything nasty’ in the back – so nice in there. A few holes drilled in the floor (can see the road underneath!!) from where I (assume) tie down points for the MX bikes were.
He’s changed the gearbox, and got all the bits replaced (cam belt, alternator) that all the online reviews say to replace.

Hmm… lack of AC COULD bother me.

Like I say – I’d take out the bulkhead and fit a rock’n’roll (ideally on a sliding arrangement)…

FFS…make up your mind boy!! 😯

DrP

We went from a Octavia estate to a SWB vivaro. There’s only the two of us and the Octavia spent most of its time with the back seats down. We bought the vivaro based on sensible price/mileage and the fact I wouldn’t give up on aircon. I loved the Octavia, a brilliant car, comfortable and capable. The Vivaro by comparison isn’t as comfortable/fast/economical, but it’s suits our needs. We don’t sleep in it, the bikes stay in it and we are in the tent. It’s got some basic racking and a leisure battery set up for the cameras/Garmin/phones/fridge, but otherwise it’s a white builders van. Getting changed inside is nice and the bikes go in complete and they are locked away out of sight.
We’ve had the van nearly three years now and I’d struggle to go back to an estate car, the van was my daily driver until I changed jobs and now cycle to work. It’s been to Alps. We did have a 2nd car which initially made the decision about the van easier, but we’ve recently sold it due to lack of use.
A bit rambling, but it may help!

Interesting topic. I’m wondering the opposite – I have a nice VW T5 van but am thinking of going back to a car, something SUV sized. As much as I like the van, we have never slept in it and it would be good to get a car that has a much more comfortable drive.
I still haven’t decided yet, but do feel a van is a bit excessive for the once or twice a month I have to drive somewhere to go biking, or the yearly holiday to Scotland etc.

I have van for work. I wouldn’t buy one for biking/lifestyle. Tents are super comfy, roofracks for travel and bikes in boot overnight. Cars are easy. Get a gazebo for that 2x a year you want to hang outside in the rain at an event.

Not read any of the above but I’d have a van all day long. In fact I’ve got one, only downside is there’s three seats up front and there’s 4 of us but as miss ws is now 15, bikes are the last thing on her mind. My bike lives in my van so on the way home if I choose I can stop for a ride. There’s always kit in there and my lid gloves and bag are hanging on nice little hooks. It’s also great for the trip to ikea or the tip, helping folk out etc.
Mine is a works van bit me and Mrs ws use it more and more often as the kids get left at home more and more often doing their own thing. If I changed companies first thing would be no company car I want a van, plus it’s a nice little tax saver.

I wouldn’t get too hung up over air con. Remember, as soon as you take the bulkhead out, your air con is only blowing cold air at the front seat passengers, its not going to be powerful enough to cool the rear of the van.

If you’ve no passengers in the back, you can drop a heavy curtain to replace the bulkhead and this gives the air con a chance to actually cool the cab. And its the same with heating, you’ll struggle to get warm in winter without a curtain to close off the rear of the van.

spooky_b329 – Member
I wouldn’t get too hung up over air con. Remember, as soon as you take the bulkhead out, your air con is only blowing cold air at the front seat passengers, its not going to be powerful enough to cool the rear of the van.

If you’ve no passengers in the back, you can drop a heavy curtain to replace the bulkhead and this gives the air con a chance to actually cool the cab. And its the same with heating, you’ll struggle to get warm in winter without a curtain to close off the rear of the van.

I’ve three points to make:

1) Spooky said what I was going to say, and it’s true enough comment.
2) I had a Renault Trafic that was a windsurfing/Day van (single bed on raised floor, racked out, sails storage under the raised floor) I took the bulkhead out too to allow more space for just me and my boards etc. simple cooking facilities and very large water carrier (all from my local caravan ctr) many more bits but you get the idea.. well it took me all around Spain and home through France on a 9mth windsurfing trip.. without really much doing to the van except panel it out and racks and bed..
3) My mate of a mate has just kitted out his T5 as a day van and it too has no air con, so far it’s been out this summer and he’s yet to moan about the lack of it.

HTHs

Aye, air con goes down as a nice to have, no way a necessity.

You said it in your OP – kidding yourself

I d have a van. Always seem to be moving stuff about, also, i drive slowly so wouldnt mind pootling about in a van. Didnt think about expensive insurance as a non trader, good point. That 20k vivaro new would be my choice.

There are a few days we’d like air con (and will get it next time) but don’t particularly miss it, windows down cruising, very appropriate unless really cooking, still does not get as hot as a car, less glass, lots of white panel.
Other things I like, would aim for, lift up tailgate, much more useful for us than barn doors. Proper second row of seats, lift in and out (right hefty though), means extra passengers legal like, higher legal speed limits, lower tolls and go a few places where ‘commercial vehicles’ aren’t allowed.

The expensive private insurance is a myth, many insurers are every but as competitive as car insurance.

The insurance on ours wasn’t that much more, but it doesn’t have contents cover and I can’t drive another vehicle using my policy. The lower speed limits for commercials still apply regardless of conversion as far as I’m aware. I know you can apply for it to be classified as a camper, but I think that only makes a difference regarding insurance not speed limits

Nope, affects speed limits too.

I didn’t know about the lower speed limits.
Mostly because the fastest thing on the road is ALWAYS a white transit driven by a man in a vest..

DrP