[Closed] Santa Cruz frame bearings - not lasting long

Same here with a 5010 - Upper link bearings to be change every year. I'm trying a new method when washing my bike by not using MucOff but just soap and water. So far the bearings are still ok but i think winter was dryish last year.

Its worth popping the seals off, as often the bearings arrive with very little in and so plenty of space for water/grit to reside in.

two of them were very gritty and two were jammed solid

^ implies contamination rather than wear.

Which means either insufficient water proof grease and/or excessive water ingress. Even in crappy weather seals shouldn't be that poor, and if there is enough decent grease in there should be fine so I'm inclined to point the finger at the washing...

Did you sue any cleaning products or just warm water? scrubbed in/any kind of force?

IME bearings last for ages (years) if filled properly with decent grease form the off and then[i] left well alone[/i], as soon as you start introducing cleaning products, scrubbing or any kind of activity that forces water past the seals (pressure washing or just forceful cleaning) then that's when they start to degrade.

Which means either insufficient water proof grease and/or excessive water ingress. Even in crappy weather seals shouldn't be that poor, and if there is enough decent grease in there should be fine so I'm inclined to point the finger at the washing...

Perhaps, but it really was a shitty horrible winter round here

Did you sue any cleaning products or just warm water? scrubbed in/any kind of force?

I use a hose (which is relatively low pressure, as it happens), some basic car shampoo and a cheap-ass sponge. I do degrease my chain on a regular basis, but obviously there's no chance of degreaser getting close to the bearings, especially those in the upper linkage which were the ones that failed.

IME bearings last for ages (years) if filled properly with decent grease form the off and then left well alone, as soon as you start introducing cleaning products, scrubbing or any kind of activity that forces water past the seals (pressure washing or just forceful cleaning) then that's when they start to degrade.

Perhaps. I've never had a set of linkage bearings last more than, say, three years which is probably a reflection of my riding conditions / frequency than any bike. My old bike (Pivot Mach 5.7 Carbon) was truly terrible as there was literally nothing to keep mud out of the bearings other than the bearing seals themselves, which just don't seem to work well without a secondary seal of some sort. These were changed annually (or even more often at times!)

The SC bearings seem to have better secondary seals, so I was hoping for a little bit better here...I think I might just strip them and repack more often to see if a bit of preventative maintenance might not win out here.

My mate's tallboy ate bearings, 3-4 sets a year, even upgraded models. He no longer has a tallboy.

I do go through bearings on my TallBoy 2, probably need to check again now.

It's sounding like a bit of a pattern here. Fortunately, Jungle aren't shy about posting out new bearings if needed, so all it really costs me is an evening in the garage and a few choice swear-words while trying to get the old ones out.

upper bearing links always go first, had it in my Bronson and nomad, lower link lasts donkeys when greased

I don't really see the issue, changing a set of bearings once a year, which are free isn't exactly a hardship is it?!

the upper ones do go first, theres no doubting that, assume its the same on all SC bikes due to the VPP somehow, I don't actually think its anything to do with the quality of the bearings, or how you wash them

FWIW I changed the upper link bearings on a nomad only 1 time after 16 months of owning it, and the lower ones only once too (slightly later didn't really need to tho), failing to see how that's bad wear for how much it gets ridden in all conditions, so id say it is fairly normal, but pretty good also

and above all else they are free and are absolutely no hassle to get off jungle anwyays

I have the same issue with the upper linkage bearings in my Bronson, one set were ruined by a very wet Lakes ride. When I spoke to Jungle they recommended removing the pivot axles and checking periodically, which I now do. It can be surprising how quickly they start to seize but by regular checks you can regrease and get them moving again

I don't really see the issue, changing a set of bearings once a year, which are free isn't exactly a hardship is it?!

It's not an issue if you can do it yourself, paying someone else to do it every few months isn't exactly in the bike sales literature.

It's sounding like a bit of a pattern here. Fortunately, Jungle aren't shy about posting out new bearings if needed, so all it really costs me is an evening in the garage and a few choice swear-words while trying to get the old ones out

My lbs changes them for me, for free, but I have a very good relationship with them.

To be honest a years use and 1500 miles through winter is bloody good going. Other brands i've owned have lasted 2-300 miles at most. and they aren't free.

Bronson bottom ones last about a year rest all ok.

I don't use detergent on the bike or spray them with GT85. Pump them regularly with grease. No issues really

Muckoff, detergent etc aint going to help and not needed

Thanks all. Good feedback.

While we're here, I'd be interested in how other people go about removing the blind bearings from the two linkage blocks.

Personally, I use this, from a recommendation elsewhere that the "official" tool is really not that great:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131982076375
My magic weapon is a kettle of boiling water - judiciously applied to the aluminium block, it expands it just enough to get the bearings out with a relatively gentle tap. Same trick works with hub bearings too.

Using this, I was able to remove all four upper link bearings from the linkage block, intact and with minimal clobbering. That said, I had to smash them to bits to get them off the tool after they were removed as it locks on pretty tightly. It goes without saying that the new bearings were lightly greased when they were installed so they should come out nice and easily next time.

pictonroad - Member 

I don't really see the issue, changing a set of bearings once a year, which are free isn't exactly a hardship is it?!

It's not an issue if you can do it yourself, paying someone else to do it every few months isn't exactly in the bike sales literature.

its no an issue if you cant do them yourself either, like me I just pay some one, it costs me 15 quid, I take the links out give them to a mate he bashes the old ones out and puts new ones in, I give him 15 quid, although shop would be similar price too once the links are out

you want try owning a bike where it eats bearings every 3 months, costs 80 quid a set, then the shop has a hassle getting them out, then charges for putting them back in/together, you'll then be wishing you had a SC with a £15 quid labour cost for a years bearings!

To be honest a years use and 1500 miles through winter is bloody good going. Other brands i've owned have lasted 2-300 miles at most. and they aren't free.

Bloody hell! That's a couple of weekends' riding!

Bugger that for a game of soldiers.

In case anyone cares, this is the tool I use in action:

[img] [/img]

(This is an Intense Carbine lower link, but it's basically the same design as the SC ones)

The tool is inserted into the bearing from the LHS and then locked up tight using two spanners. Once tight, I then pour boiling water on the linkage block for around 30s, brace the linkage in the vice and, using an old QR skewer, bash the opposite end of the tool through the linkage block. (In this photo, this would bash it from right to left).

I've done a few of these and they all came out with my plastic-headed mallet with only 2-3 moderately-gentle bashes. This compares favourably with a Giant push-fit BB that had been glued in and took 20 minutes of braying with a lump hammer to remove

My Blur LTc used to get through bearings every 6 months.
I know have a 5010cc V2 and have replaced them once after 12 months.
At least they are free and a doddle to replace.
I bought a Draper bearing puller kit and the SC bearing press tool to make life easier.

Perhaps, but it really was a shitty horrible winter round here

Perhaps, but general 'weather' shouldn't be able to get into them, it really shouldn't, especially for upper links, if they are appropriately greased and the seals are doing their job then general splashing and whatnot shouldn't be an issue, only water under pressure or full submersion.

Open up a typical* brand new bearing and I bet you'll be surprised how little grease is in there, and it'll probably be thin, easily washed out stuff too with little water resistance.

Gritty feeling and seizing really does sound like contamination and/or subsequent corrosion rather than wear, if they were were going sloppy and developing play then that would indicate wear (possibly as a result of the two C's), but what you've described sounds like water/contamination and subsequent corrosion.

Having to replace them every year or less might not be a big deal to you but it is seriously sub-optimal and I'm surprised people put up with it, I've had bikes like that before, all fixed by replacing with properly packed bearings and making sure no degreasers or cleaners used near the bearings. I even had an Mk1 Intense Tracer that lasted 6 years on one set of bearings, loads of riding, numerous races etc and those frames were also known for eating bearings! And I've got a Straight 6 back end on it's second set since 2001, that one doesn't do very high mileage but it is used in all conditions, including some biblically wet rides and it's just about needing the dropout links doing as they have a tiny bit of play developing.

*mostly because they're designed for high RPM use in otherwise pretty well sealed environments, not slow minimal rotation with high mixed axis loads in the outdoors, fill them with decent thick proper waterproof grease, preferably one with corrosion inhibitors too and they last many many times longer on bikes.

Thanks for the info - being honest, I completely forgot to grease up the new bearings this time around, so now you've reminded me, I'll pop the linkage off this weekend, degrease and clean them and then regrease from scratch. You're quite right when you say that stock bearings can be undergreased, but this is mostly because they are designed to spin and not oscillate, so tend to be under-packed as a result.

The bearings were certainly not worn and had no perceptable play - they were just shitted up and, in the case of two, locked solid. I agree that this was almost certainly due to contamination and probably a reflection on the bearing external seals on the bike. Judging by others here, it seems that SCs might suffer from UK-weather-itis.

I'm pretty careful with degreasers, but there's no way I'm cleaning without any detergent at all - life's too short to be cleaning bikes with just water, I'm afraid. I'd maybe argue that this might even be worse due to the extra water you'd need to use to offset the detergent's ability to shift the muck.

SC's lower link bearings are angular contact ones, designed for loading rather than rotation, but I am pretty sure that the upper link ones are just regular bearings. I just wish they'd fit grease ports on the top link too as, frankly, this would probably solve the problem completely! Much like my old Pivot, I guess these bikes are designed and tested in California and probably don't see much mud until they get to the UK market.

I'm not complaining here, btw - I'm a bit of a maintenance addict - but it's nice to know that I'm not alone here. I think I'll be a bit more productive with greasing up the bearings and keep a close eye on the pivot axles too.

I'm not complaining here, btw

I am I don't think people should have to put up with bearings that only last months or a few hundred miles in some cases, it's just piss poor!

I am I don't think people should have to put up with bearings that only last months or a few hundred miles in some cases, it's just piss poor!

I blame Lancashire for attracting the rain into Yorkshire

I ride from home, washing the bike isn't required. Once it turns dry I give it a wash. It stays dusty until I go abroad and its in a bike bag or winter hove's into view. So maybe a few times a year and gets used a lot. It gets dirty as soon as I hit the trail.

No extra water required Maybe you need to adjust your own view on cleaning the bike. Hit the trail and its dirty or dusty.

I ride from home, washing the bike isn't required. Once it turns dry I give it a wash. It stays dusty until I go abroad and its in a bike bag or winter hove's into view. So maybe a few times a year and gets used a lot. It gets dirty as soon as I hit the trail.

I think there's a calibration difference here! I don't wash my bike when it's a bit dusty or a bit dirty - I wash it when it needs washing, but round here in the winter, don't expect to be doing this every 3 months

[img] [/img]

I think that a lot of this variation is entirely due to usage. I ride all year round and am not afraid of mud, but I'm very much aware that mud destroys drivetrains. I guess that if the price I pay for keeping the transmission running smooth is that I need to swap frame bearings every few months, this is something I can live with.

I think that a lot of this variation is entirely due to usage. I ride all year round and am not afraid of mud, but I'm very much aware that mud destroys drivetrains.

Unless I'm racing it it looks like that then it's time to head somewhere else.

if you insist, there are just much better places to ride where you can actually ride without destroying parts.

Unless I'm racing it it looks like that then it's time to head somewhere else.

What he sez.

I think we're getting a bit circular here. I'm not sure the correct answer to "how to reduce bearing wear" is "don't get the bike dirty" - the point I was trying to make is that these bikes shouldn't be cotton-wool wrapped. They are bikes and are meant to be ridden in any and all conditions.

Judging by the wide range of comments, my take-away here is that bearing life will vary a great deal based on usage. I've no doubt that the guys in California probably never change a linkage bearing in the lifetime of the frame, but if it's a choice between staying indoors or going out riding, I'll be out on the trails and if it means an extra evening bashing out bearings, then I can live with this.

Thanks for all of the comments - they've been useful and insightful.

Honestly I've ridden in lots of conditions in my blur ltc, it needed 2 bearings in 4 years. Lots of mud in there but never that much shit as in your pic. Your risking a lot more than bearings in that pic anything hard in that mud is scraping your swing go arms. Do you not have any weather proof trails? If your collection of mud is from consistent you must also be doing damage to the trails.

Honestly I've ridden in lots of conditions in my blur ltc, it needed 2 bearings in 4 years. Lots of mud in there but never that much shit as in your pic. Your risking a lot more than bearings in that pic anything hard in that mud is scraping your swing go arms. Do you not have any weather proof trails? If your collection of mud is from consistent you must also be doing damage to the trails.

Personally, I don't like mud and grit in my transmission so keep it immaculately clean between rides

Keeping the bike immaculately clean between rides is not good for bearings, as every time you hose it (and there's no way you can get all that shit up there ^ off without a hose!) will force grease out and shitty water in. It's just a fact of life with bearings, you can't have something that rotates sealed against ingress.

I'm the same really, I don't like leaving the bike manky, but tbh a SC is the best option for this, with the free bearings.

My SB66 was over a hundred quid every year for bearings, and that was nursing them through.

Pah! that's clean that is, look you can still tell what colour the frame is and how many gears it's got!

I rarely need to do top pivot bearings on my Nomad and 5010. Lower bearings need attention, though can be prolonged with regular greasing, and adjustment to reduce the play.

There's a reason though why SC have a lifetime bearing warranty

Anyway, SC advice... Stop washing your bike so much!

[i]
"Q: I'm lazy and lack motivation, what can I do to prolong bearing life?
A: Stop washing your bike so much. We did some experiments with bikes that were washed a lot but ridden infrequently, bikes that were ridden a lot but washed infrequently, and bikes that were both washed and ridden a lot. Guess what? Your bike hates only being washed and not being ridden. This test group had the worst results. They became creaky and not much fun to be around, much like the people who own bikes like that. Don't get all angry (you know who you are), you can still wash your bike from time to time - and there are those times where it has to be done after every ride. Everything needs more attention during those times. BUT, maybe you should examine your priorities. It's a mountain bike. You can get dirt on it. It's OK."[/i]

https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en-GB/news/347

I wash my bikes infrequently. Not washed mine in the last couple of months now, and been all over and got a little muddy. Don't expect to wash them much if at all over the summer. Dust off, wipe rags around seals and pivots. Shock oil on shock seals, pump shock and wipe clean. Job done.

Thanks all for the info - I guess that laying off the hose might help me here.

Are there any support groups out there to help ween people off clean bikes? I can't help thinking I'll be in for a tough journey...

Are there any support groups out there to help ween people off clean bikes? I can't help thinking I'll be in for a tough journey...

Email in profile, we'll learn and grow together....

OK, so seeing as someone mentioned about pre-greasing new bearings and I had completely forgotten to do so, I've stripped the linkage this evening as I thought it might be interesting to see some photos of relatively new bearings.

Link removed from bike:
[img] [/img]

External covers removed. Still plenty of grease left behind them, outside of the main seals:
[img] [/img]

Seal removed. This is pretty much how they come from the shop - bit sad looking, if I'm being honest:
[img] [/img]

Cleaned and regreased. I use Lucas "Red n Tacky" which sticks like mad to anything. It would be far to thick for a wheel bearing, but is perfect for frame linkage bearings like these:
[img] [/img]

And refitted and adjusted on the bike:
[img] [/img]

Good half-hour's work there, I reckon and as mentioned by someone further up this thread, well worth doing on all linkage bearings before fitting.

Aye, been disappointed with the amount of grease in new bearings. Last time I bought hope they were like that.

Don't have an SC, but my Yeti bearings are the same. Just had the shop change them and they pulled the seals and filled them with grease for me. Said they see them last a lot longer. Must admit, I'd popped the seals before on the old bearings and packed them out too.

Yeti also have similar bearing covers. Do SC tell you to apply liberal amounts of grease between the bearing and cover (not the bearing seal)? I've always been in two minds as to whether to pack it out to keep water out, or whether it would just attract dirt and cause creaks?

any tips on a good degreaser and or techniques for flushing old grease out when repacking?

Do SC tell you to apply liberal amounts of grease between the bearing and cover (not the bearing seal)? I've always been in two minds as to whether to pack it out to keep water out, or whether it would just attract dirt and cause creaks?

They certainly say to apply grease between the outer bearing seal and the aluminium cover piece but it's a little vague - "apply grease to inner face" it says here:
https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en-US/node/450

Personally, I slap a bit on but like you, I'd be worried about the grease attracting grit and, again, this is one of those "works in California" things. Anyone else have an opinion here?

any tips on a good degreaser and or techniques for flushing old grease out when repacking?

Stick it in an old muc-off bottle and you can soon spray it into an open bearing. A few minutes of wiggling got mine nice and clean.

This is the stuff. It says "heavy duty" but in my experience, it's no stronger than the expensive bike shop stuff and seems to work well:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/no-nonsense-heavy-duty-degreaser-5ltr/88668

Obviously, you need to make sure it's all gone from the bearing before repacking, but it evaporates quite quickly.

Got a year out of my Nomads. Considering how long I keep bikes I think it'll save me a couple of grand in the long run that Santa Cruz'll replace them.

Next new full susser in 2036

Got a year out of my Nomads. Considering how long I keep bikes I think it'll save me a couple of grand in the long run that Santa Cruz'll replace them.

Next new full susser in 2036

Wouldn't bother degreasing. Just get some decent marine grease, fill up grease gun and flush it through. Though only any good on lower link with the grease ports, but as I say that's the ones I mainly have to do. Upper link I find is fine with the factory grease for years.

Whatever way, some proper thick marine grease and loads of it.

You won't overpack them, too much grease only only causes an issue when your subjecting bearings to over 1500 rpm, which no bike bearing will ever do.

And a full bearing doesn't attract grit etc either, having the bearing packed will help keep contaminants out.

Santa Cruz Nickel - 6 years on, bearings still ace. Loving it.

3 years on the bearings in my Blur LT, wash the bike every 3 months and give it a proper clean + service.

Usual post ride maintenance is, run chain through microfibre cloth backwards if wet ride, wipe down stanchions. Reapply squirt chain lube if needed. Put bike away. Results in a huge collection of dried of mud around the frame but falls off moving parts on next ride.

In winter on the most filthy rides where the bike may resemble that picture above, i'll give it a very light mizzle down with hose on low setting to remove the bulk of filth.

Wouldn't bother degreasing. Just get some decent marine grease, fill up grease gun and flush it through. Though only any good on lower link with the grease ports, but as I say that's the ones I mainly have to do. Upper link I find is fine with the factory grease for years.

Interestingly, I find the upper link is the one that grits up the quickest, where the lower link lasts longer, presumably because it's easy to flush the grease through and is therefore done more often.

Regarding degreasing, yes I'd agree on new bearings or lower link, but if greasing the upper link bearings in-situ, you can only get to one side, so they really need a proper clean out to get the grit n shit out. At least, that was my experience when I did it earlier in this thread.

Whatever way, some proper thick marine grease and loads of it.