I used to have a Genesis Equilibrium and found the front end a bit low for my liking.

Thinking of getting another road bike now but ideally would like one with a taller front end.

Is this possible and if so what sort of thing is available?

Thanks

Steve

anything marketed as a sportive bike?

oh right ok.

whats the difference?

or more

a higher front end.

The stack and reach numbers are the best way to identify this, well the stack. That shows the hight from the BB to the top of the head tube. The combination of head tube length, fork axle to crown and headset create the hight at the front.

Bikes like the GT Grade, Spec Roubaix or Diverge, Giant Defy etc will have a more relaxed geometry with a higher front end.
Try find out the stack numbers from your old bike and then compare that to bikes that take your fancy.

oh right ok.

whats the difference?

er… they have higher front ends!

and normally a degree or so more relaxed, and maybe a bit longer in the back, basically they’re road bikes but less race biased, more comfy and less aggressive, which it sounds like you want?

Or just get a taller stem and/or don’t cut the steerer down on bike of your choice. FWIW, the equilibrium isn’t exactly racy, some would even describe it as relaxed and with a high front end already

Oh ok thanks for that then. you learn something new everyday !!

I found the genesis a bit weird to be honest, it was a 58cm which apparently is the right size for me @ 6’1″ yet it never felt right, I felt like I was always shuffling rearwards to try and get comfy but also the front end was too long (ended up with a 85mm stem on it !!)and to low.

From what I remember Sportive Bikes aren’t really much higher than the Equilibrium, certainly not the Defy which I seem to recall was actually slightly lower than, say, a Cannondale Synapse.

Having been through all this myself (knackered back wasn’t even particularly happy on a Synapse!) I think you’re better looking at full blown touring bikes* or ‘gravel’ although a lot of gravel bikes appear no taller than the Synapse.

I’ve just accepted I’m probably better off on a mountainbike 🙄

*edit: e.g. a Salsa Vaya which is very tall at the front. But also significantly heavier than a road bike. Ironically I sold mine because it felt so much more sluggish than my Synapse, but now that I’ve accepted even the Synapse was too ‘low’ I’m kind of looking at bikes like the Vaya again, d’oh!

Doh !!

what touring or gravel bikes are there then ?

Pretty much every manufacturer now does a “gravel” or “all road” type bike. Pick one you like. I found the Genesis Croix De Fer particularly comfortable.

Better off saving your cash and getting a flat bar hybrid if you want to sit upright.

I found the Genesis Cross De Fer particularly comfortable.

Its only 12mm more stack than the same size equilibrium.

In true STW fashion ill just blame the rider and say you need to do core strength exercises… 😆

In reality though flipping your stem to point up (if not already) would be a good start. Will add a good bit of height and shorten the reach also.

Better off saving your cash and getting a flat bar hybrid if you want to sit upright.

Given the amount of bikes this guy has found to be uncomfortable, a sofa would be a better choice…..

Maybe you have a point.

What size sofa for Renton

Depends what you mean by road bike, but Salsa Fargo, Bombtrack Beyond and The Light Blue Darwin all have similar geometries (ish) with higher stack relative to their reach (ie high stack short reach) if I remember correctly. Been a while since I looked.
I have a Synapse and Fargo and prefer higher drop bars for a variety of reasons (not cosmetic obviously, definitely not pretty). Fargo suits better.
Unfortunately I found that bike geometry is not always smoothly progressive through sizes so sometimes a larger frame than you would normally go for, will have a significantly higher stack for a small increase in reach. so might suit better (with a shorter stem)
Having said that the ideal would be to find out your perfect fit before buying a bike. Can you borrow a friend’s road bike and fit a short adjustable stem and try out a few positions? Once dialled in it will be easier to choose a bike afterwards to suit.

I agree with STATO. To be “on-trend”you have to have your stem slammed and angled down, so you look like a TdF thoroughbred. Well, I’m not 20 anymore, and will never be a racer, so my stem slopes upwards.

Specialized Roubaix has a disproportionately tall head tube. Giant Defy has a shorter reach, but the head tube is not particularly tall.

For budget, the Cannondale CAAD8 has quite a tall front end too compared with their other race bikes. Same race geometry (unlike the Synapse) if you want that.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/how-many-headset-spacers-are-too-many

Its interesting to see the large size Ridley Helium SL has a 205 head tube. Stack of 602 on a reach of 400. This is the bike ridden by team Lotto-belisol in the Tour De France, and at one time Gallopin was holding the yellow jersey just a couple of years ago. Superlight fast comfortable frame by all accounts and reviews.

In the usual tradition of recommending what you have; got a (steel) condor fratello which has a higher front end, really comfy and great for old less flexible farts ( like me)

Not strictly a road bike, but Giants ‘anyroad’ would be tempting to me, had I not bought a specialized secteur a few years ago.
Though even with the secteur, I’m still going to have to get the fork swapped out, add spacers and an adjustable stem, etc.
Not a complaint as such, Specialized are great, but they don’t sell any adjustable stems like the one pictured above that are compatible with their carbon forks. And you can’t add spacers to the steerer without voiding the warranty.

Its interesting to see the large size Ridley Helium SL has a 205 head tube

And if Lotto rode frames the ‘right’ size that’d be more meaningful…

but like most pros they are running smaller frames and longer posts and stems in order to get the racey set-up they want.

Its interesting to see the large size Ridley Helium SL has a 205 head tube. Stack of 602 on a reach of 400. This is the bike ridden by team Lotto-belisol in the Tour De France, and at one time Gallopin was holding the yellow jersey just a couple of years ago. Superlight fast comfortable frame by all accounts and reviews.

No doubt. Although they clearly got the sizing a bit wrong for a race frame, since they’re all run with slammed -17 stems.

Looks like the’yve got quite a high BB aswell as really short top tubes. Look utter ****. One to avoid for sure.

Its important to understand the geometry changes when your looking for a high front. I have a 56 Salsa Casseroll and have a stack of spacers to lift the bars to about level with the saddle. Because the fork isnt vertical its raked at 71 degrees, those spacers reduce the reach by about 2 cm from my saddle, from the standard 56 diamond frame. Thus going tall at the front may require sizing up in my case to a 58 if your going to use spacers. You then have to look for a frame with a dropped top tube, not horizontal, sp youndont lose standover. That or you’ll be swapping the stem for 2cm longer one, or changing the narrow reach bars for longer ones.

The On One Bish Bash Bosh is nice and high at the front too. 404 fork and a 195 head tube on the 58. One advantage of a frameset is the fork steerer isnt cut.

Renton – book in with Adrian Timmis at cadence sport, talk to him about what kind of riding you want to do and he will give you numbers. Then go and buy a bike that fits the numbers, don’t stress about either the make/model or the measurement of the head tube as there are so many other considerations (that Adrian knows more about than any of us)

the first and most important thing is to get the right shoes, then get the cleats in the right place, then get the saddle in the right place. only then does the position of the bars come into play

from what I can guess of your second post you’ve possibly experienced this with the genesis, some frame geometry works for some folk and not others depending on our own body proportions and flexibility

dougal365 – Member
…Unfortunately I found that bike geometry is not always smoothly progressive through sizes so sometimes a larger frame than you would normally go for, will have a significantly higher stack for a small increase in reach. so might suit better (with a shorter stem)

That’s because designers dont want to increase the wheelbase too much. The reach on a 56 might be a same as a 60 but that is measured at a different ‘stack’. If you put the bars at the same height on both the 56 will be shorter reach due to the head angle. If they increased reach and stack then the wheelbase would be jumping up double the amount between sizes, when a better way is to just accommodate extra reach with a longer stem (against STW policy I know).

58cm which apparently is the right size for me @ 6’1″ yet it never felt right, I felt like I was always shuffling rearwards to try and get comfy but also the front end was too long (ended up with a 85mm stem on it !!)and to low

That sounds exactly like me when I got back on a road bike last year after a very long time. The underlying problem was saddle height. I had it miles too low so was always shuffling backwards trying to create room for my legs, and then because I had too much weight backwards I was stretching for the bars. A competent bike fitter sorted that in ten minutes. The new fit felt very weird for some time afterwards but I cannot possibly imagine going back to the old one now.

Which is a long way of agreeing with the posts above which say get a proper fit. Don’t just get one who does computer stuff- experience and understanding you and your riding is important too. Paul Smith at Enigma is my hero but I have heard good things about Adrian Timmis, mentioned above, too. Once you have the fit, persist with it. I stuck it out for several months (and it was weird and uncomfortable at times) before tweaking anything, and I feel I have now come out the other side.

What edhornby said. ie get fitted up then you’ll have the numbers.

renton – Member
I used to have a Genesis Equilibrium and found the front end a bit low for my liking.

Thinking of getting another road bike now but ideally would like one with a taller front end…

If you take a look at riders of dropbar roadbikes in the 1950-60s you’ll notice that they are riding bikes that are about 2″ bigger than we ride now.

This gave a better saddle to bar proportion for general riding (as opposed to actual racing) because the bars were carried higher. For more height the stem could be slid up which made for more comfort as you reached the end of a long day in the saddle.

Maybe you need a 1950-60s classic frame or buy a size bigger frame. 🙂

And in addition to what Epicyclo said, if you look back then they spent a significantly larger proportion of their time in the drops compared to nowadays.

Today’s lower bars go hand in hand with the default position being on the hoods/ramps, and bar shapes have changed too to accommodate that and modern STI shapes(shorter/shallower drop) and people spend correspondingly less time in the drops.

If not racing then the slightly higher bar gives you more options, as you can still get low (on the drops) when you need to, but have more comfort on the tops and hoods, and you’ll spend more time moving around as well rather than just being on the hoods all day long, for general pootling, longer rides, and audaxing it makes a lot more sense.

As an example I ride an XL Pompino in comfort, but my mtb size is medium.

Then there’s this. 🙂

Just get a hybrid. It’ll be just as quick and handle just the same as a road bike with a tall front end and a short stem. You’ll save a load of money, plus you’ll get disc brakes.

epicyclo I agree with your general point but it was more up to the mid 90’s that people rode bikes bigger than now. This modern slammed look doesn’t do nothing for me, look at the photos below quality riders with sensible proportioned bikes.

Pedro Delgado 1988 TDF

Indurain, Rominger and A Mejia from 1993.

Indurain looked awful on a bike. Lemond OTOH

Actually I looked into this a little bit more as I’m still keen on a drop barred ‘road’ bike but need the taller front end too.

Out of a Cannondale Synapse, a Genesis Datum and a Specialized Diverge (all in a size 56), it appears that the Synapse has the shortest reach (385mm) and the highest stack (590mm), albeit there’s only a matter of millimetres in it between the brands.

Go up a size though and the Diverge has a huge 622mm stack, but the top tube length increases by 15mm and the reach increases similarly.

Would be interested to test ride the Diverge to see what could be achieved with shifting the saddle forward and/or putting a shorter stem on, reducing reach and still benefiting from the taller front end…

If you take a look at riders of dropbar roadbikes in the 1950-60s you’ll notice that they are riding bikes that are about 2″ bigger than we ride now.

Don’t forget that compact shallow drop bars were unheard of. A full 17cm drop was the norm, compared with 12-14 cm now. Higher hoods for comfort and same low drops for speed.

For the record, and I’ve said it before, you should be spending about a third of your riding on the drops as a minimum. If you hardly use them then by definition, your bike is not set up appropriately. Most people set their bars to be comfortable on the hoods, which is a mistake.

I raced for three hours on Saturday and was hardly off the drops. I am not a flexible rider and saddle to bar drop is only 7cm.

For the record, and I’ve said it before, you should be spending about a third of your riding on the drops as a minimum. If you hardly use them then by definition, your bike is not set up appropriately. Most people set their bars to be comfortable on the hoods, which is a mistake.

I disagree, for most typical riding the hoods are going to be used about 80-90% of the time IME. Even when racing the hoods get used mostly, as lets face it a big chunk of time is going to be cruising around in the bunch. Drops get used for descending, or if you are in a break/chaingang situation. I used to like climbing on them in races Pantani style, but most people won’t do this.

I disagree, for most typical riding the hoods are going to be used about 80-90% of the time IME.

Yeah, the drops need to be a comfortable reach but with the move to flat-tops-hoods the comfortable position is up there rather than in the drops.

My fixed/winter-commuter has bars so high its drops level with the tops on my summer roadie and yet I still spend most of my time on the tops. I did a big ride on the fixed at the weekend so spent a lot of time in the drops wrestling it up hills or careering down them, but it was still more like 90% tops.

TiRed – Member
…you should be spending about a third of your riding on the drops as a minimum. If you hardly use them then by definition, your bike is not set up appropriately. Most people set their bars to be comfortable on the hoods, which is a mistake.

I raced for three hours on Saturday and was hardly off the drops…

The last sentence is the crucial one. Even if you don’t think you are fit or flexible, the fact that you are able to race for 3 hours puts you in a different user group from the average rider.

On the old bikes I don’t remember riding on the hoods much, it was either on the top of the bar or in the drops.

Looking at a pic of my old bike from back then I estimate that my tops were roughly where the bars of a hybrid would be, and as the drop was deeper than modern bars, it was roughly where it would be on a modern bike.

It was easy to vary height by lifting or dropping the stem and that’s one of the big advantages of the old stems. I used to lift mine for offroad riding for example, or towards the end of a long day. Or drop it right down for persistent headwinds.

I suspect we used more trail on ordinary dropbar bikes than modern versions because it was much easier to ride for miles hands off – or maybe my reflexes are too slow now. 🙂