Regulations re shooting across a permissive path – are there any?

A track that is not designated as a right of way but is a permissive path with public access.

Particularly interested to hear whether the shoot organiser has any responsibilities re the safety of the public.

Thanks.

I would be extremely surprised if the organiser didn’t need to secure a closure of the path for the duration of the event but I am very seriously not an expert or lawyer…

Yes, exactly vincienup.

Just to add that I have nothing against shooting and enjoy eating pheasant and other hunted creatures. 🙂

What about cats – legitimate targets or not?

The short answer is no, they don’t have to close it, it’s quite legal to shoot across it on your own land, but you have to allow the public to pass and re-pass without interference, and shooting across a ROW, private or public, while someone is on it, would probably breach other laws as well.

I think BASC has issued guidance, can’t find a postable link though.

No restrictions. Consider that the path holds no right of access. Actually rights of way have no restrictions. RoW users have equal rights to landowners shooting. Both are expected to make appropriate allowances for each other. Eg you stop shooting whilst some one is crossing and you stop walking if a shot is likely eg birds overhead. Shooting should takes into account user so you would let horses move on but no reason not to shoot by a human, say they are behind you. British law expects common sense here. No need for signs. Some shoots do to be helpful, some don’t as the antis get aresy. With a permissive path users are best being considerate as the path could be closed if too much piss taking goes on. No idea how to copy and paste with a tablet but search “shooting over permissive footpath” and tag the link to BASC

what nature of ‘permissive’? Informal? DEFRA countryside stewardship? Regardless, as a general rule permission being just what it means so could well be suspended at any time.

No direct legal duties, other than standard duties under firearms acts etc. (eg intent to cause fear of violence) – common sense, respect and Wheaton’s law applies (to both sides)

Can only reiterate what we said under the IMBA banner years ago:

What should you do if you encounter a pheasant shoot when out for a ride on a bridleway or byway?
IMBA recommends that you wait for the “drive” to be completed. This may take up to 15 minutes. You may also find that the “beaters” are positioning themselves for the next “drive” – if so, we again recommend waiting for the drive to be complete so avoid disturbing the birds prematurely.
While you may feel that shooting pheasants or other game is rather an odd way to spend the day – remember that the shooters and beaters will quite probably have similar views about mountain biking!

BASC advice here: https://basc.org.uk/wp-content/plugins/download-monitor/download.php?id=49

This book:

says:

It’s not quite right that there are no restrictions, but merely the provisions under the Highways Act don’t apply for Permissive Paths (e.g. causing certain kinds of danger or annoyance etc).

There are provisions under Occupiers’ liability Act 1957 (as path users are ‘visitors’), therefore the Permissive Path would need closing for the duration of the shoot, or indeed other precautions to ensure that people are not on, or likely to be on, the path (e.g. spotters at either end).

Assuming it’s not also on CROW land that is.

Thanks chaps, most helpful. In the past on official rights of way there has been a person responsible for requesting the public to wait when appropriate, by standing by a closed gate for example. They then communicate with the shooting party and when appropriate the public can proceed safely. Always worked well, everybody happy.

Today before I reached the guns I stood still for quite some time, punters definitely were able to see me. Nothing happened so proceeded forward then waited again. Nothing. It was as though I didn’t exist. In fact I even found a dead pheasant on the permissive path.

Did you take it home to put with the badger?

What, they shot across the path while you were using it? Definitely some dubious and possibly unlawful practice there.

I would have said that putting marshalls at each end of the path would be pretty reasonable and standard practice.

The only purpose of this permissive track was to access a property in the care of English Heritage, it’s a dead end. I don’t know whether the land being used for shooting is EH maintained or belongs to a nearby farm.

The shoot was then wrapped up so I continued on my way. Nobody said a word to me. Went to look at the EH property and some folk from the shoot, possibly the land owner, were walking around it. They couldn’t have been more frosty if they’d tried when I’d said ‘good afternoon’. Hmmm.

May have a chat with the RoW folk at the local Council.

Edit: my concern is basically their lack of concern with regard to public safety.

I think you’ll find most people get a bit ‘frosty’ when you start discharging firearms in thier general direction!

They couldn’t have been more frosty if they’d tried when I’d said ‘good afternoon’. Hmmm.

Must have been the pheasant tail hanging out of your rucksack.

We stumbled across a pheasant shoot last year and one of the drives was clearly designed to shoot over the PROW (Long Lane out of Clapham).

No spotters on the path or anything, we approached from behind the shooters and no-one made any attempt to stop the shoot while we passed.

If I’d known my rights (or perhaps more importantly their code of conduct) I might have been a bit more bolshie but to be honest we were happy to stop and watch for a bit (was half-hoping to pick up a spare bird or two), and they finished the drive around the time we were getting fidgety anyway.

Edit: my concern is basically their lack of concern with regard to public safety.

perception and actuality often differ, I would suggest the fact that you didn’t get shot is indicative of whether they showed due regard for safety.

o be honest we were happy to stop and watch for a bit (was half-hoping to pick up a spare bird or two), and they finished the drive around the time we were getting fidgety anyway.

Common sense was applied by both parties and everyone walked away happy? A perfect endorsement of how everyone can enjoy the countryside happily and get on with each other.

I agree to some extent ninfan, but the fact that they weren’t prepared to stop for us to pass – and didn’t have anyone to check for users of the PROW – suggests that they weren’t really too concerned about their code of conduct and responsibilities. “get on with each other” works both ways.

I agree with thecaptain. Just to reiterate though that today was an exception, normally there would be somebody to deal with the RoW users and it’s enjoyable watching the gundogs do their work so no big deal to wait.

Probably didn’t help that I said that one of their off the lead dogs needed their claws cut, cue some awkwardness but I said it wasn’t a problem that it jumped up. No apology, surprise surprise. Poor attitude.

Over the years in the Cotswolds and Wiltshire I just turn back and go a different way have been down Byways on a motorbike and been told I cant pass even though its a public right of way and the same happened few years ago on the track just down the road from Barbury castle and was on a MTB they say I am going to scare the bloody birds!!!are you really going to argue with people with loads of guns thinking they own the countryside?I am dead against shooting seems so pointless to me but Hay Ho.

Best practice would be that they closed the path (permitted a certain number of times per year) stopped/delayed or that someone requested you wait. After all the landowner (who may not hold the sporting rights) gets money for the permissive path.

That said, given the date, it was likely a ‘beaters day’ where those who spend the season beating get to stand and shoot on the last shoot of the season. Potentially different organisation and might just be one of those things.

are you really going to argue with people with loads of guns thinking they own the countryside?

They do. 😆

No they don’t..

They’ve just bought (literally) into the concept of countryside ownership

Low shots are generally a no go, so wouldn’t be too worried unless it was a corporate group.

They do, Just like I own my house or bike.

your house we can debate, your bike i will let you have.

They’ve just bought (literally) into the concept of countryside ownership

Well yeah, that’s how it works.

There are a lot of Shoots in the Downs, I ride across them quite frequently. There are two main gatherings and both are well supported with both “beaters” and “shepherds” the shepherds are the guys with orange flags and are supposed to stop traffic/the shoot/public from crossing footpaths/bridleways whilst a shoot is on.
I’ve been stopped quite a few times, they’ve always been very friendly and chatty, jolly nice folk actually. I do wonder if you either missed or perhaps they’d moved on from the area you were in? It’s possible because the shepherds normally follow the beaters and they just coral the birds into a field, or corner of one.

Did you hear shooting going on around you at the time? I always hear some shoot or other on the Downs, I kinda know where they’ll be heading though purely down to experience and local knowledge.

Does seem odd if they were shooting across a footpath/bridleway, thats not like the lot down my way.