Rusty – I know I was in the wrong for riding it and I thought I was doing the right (well as right as I could be when riding where I shouldn’t) thing by slowing down and making it easy for them to pass. As it was a raised section, I couldn’t move any further over and getting off wouldn’t actually have made it any easier for them to pass. The other walker passed without problem (it wasn’t that narrow – easliy wide enough for us to pass without touching). I was just annoyed that someone would take the ‘law’ into their own hands and act like that.

And I bring up the cyclepath subject purely because I am trying to make the point that the council provides cyclists with dedicated places to cycle, yet they abruptly end (on one occasion, it is an old train line – one one side of a road it is a cycleway, on the other a footpath – same trainline, just different side of the road) leaving us with nowhere to ride legally.

Go and tell the police as it was assault.
If you don’t do anything and thus allow him to get away with it you will feel angry about it for years to come.
You can’t go around pushing people off bikes.

mastiles, no worries, thanks for clarifying the situation.
I’m with you on the crap cyclelanes BTW.

Miketually’s point about the walkers trespass is really interesting:
At the time of the Kinder Trespass, social mobility was increasing for the working classes and the majority of the public empathised with the aims of the trespassers. Everyone can see how walking in the country can be enjoyable, even if not for them personally.

I don’t think a mass cycling trespass today would achieve the same thing – can you just imagine the anti cycling Tabloid headlines?
Cycling is still very much a minority activity and until this changes then the only real meaningful way that we can influence non-cyclists perceptions of us is by our behaviour out on the trails & roads.

A couple of really good posts Rusty Spanner, couldn’t agree more.

[edit- and on the OP, nothing justifies violence in this situation either by the walker or in response]

Mastiles, I know exactly where you are talking about for obvious reasons.

The Ford has been complained about – its impassible even at the best of times and a bridge (although there is no duty to create one) would make a huge difference to the local network of trails. The council is failing in its duty to keep the trail safe for passage by its normal traffic (partly due to the fact its on the border between the district council and the NYCC, so neither side wants to take responsibility for it.

As far as I’m concerned, using that stretch of trail is not trespass, as there’s a clear tradition within ROW law of being allowed to detour round to the nearest point when a trail is impassable.

At the same time – you should have battered **** out of the ignorant tosser, and I’m sure that we could round up a posse to help you.

Aye – perhaps they think they have done their duty by having a bridge further down (although of course we need to be on the footpath to get to it)…

It doesn’t help with the very confusing signs either – some look to be clearly mrked as footpaths, when they are actually bridleways. No doubt that winds up the walkers when they think they are on a footpath when it is, in fact, a bridleway.

I guess you ride it too then? What bike are you on? I’ll say hi if I spot you 🙂

(I am on Spesh Enduro S-Works (original ‘Brain’ model)

Also – the northshore stuff is getting pretty broken up now – it’s been a while since I have ridden there and was surprised to find so many broken planks – including one section that I had to get off and walk otherwise the wheel would have disappeared down a hole!

At the same time – you should have battered **** out of the ignorant tosser, and I’m sure that we could round up a posse to help you.

I can imagine it now “Attack of the keyboard warriors”

So did he actually physically push you or just move across the path towards you, giving you nowhere to go?

To the people who say “It’s assault, go to the police!” I’d be interested in hearing your thoughts on how this would actually pan out at the police station. Mine guess would be –

“Hello officer I’ve been assaulted!”

‘Stay calm sir, and explain what happened.’

“Well I was cycling along this footpath, and this person deliberately moved into my path and I end up falling off. That’s assault!”

‘Footpath you say?..’

“That’s not the point I was assaulted!”

‘Ok sir, what damage did this assailant do to you?’

“None, but you’re missing the point here.”

‘And this person, did they threaten you?’

“Well not as such, but it wasn’t very nice”

‘not very nice.. Just getting all the sailent details down. Witnesses?’

“His wife”

‘Do you know her?”

“No”

‘Him?”

“No”

‘Right. I think I’ve got all the details needed to take the appropriate action’

What restraint from the OP. If it would have been me that was pushed over i would have hurt them quite badly. But then i have a temper.
I blame the ‘chatsworth’ where i grew up- rules are if someone hurts you you hurt them x100 more then burn their car out.
perhaps i need anger management.
well done OP

Yes, bear in mind that cyclists always get a bashing in the press. The level of discriminatory rubbish that I have listened to is quite shocking. Comments from daytime TV presenters and comments from prominent people such as Mathew Parris and his decapitating cyclists “Joke” WTF!! Basically painting all cyclists as aggressive and irresponsible, or just a bloody nuisance. (i’m all of those btw :lol:).

But seriously, negative press only encourages and condones the behaviour that puts cyclists lives at risk.

For years councils and politicians have been banging on about reducing motor vheicle reliance, yet they do very little about making riding a bike a safer better experience. It all comes down to what wins votes and what is economic.

For example: Why shouldn’t the rules on countryside access be changed so that cyclists can use public footpaths?

Where I live, not many people use footpaths, but cyclists would. Let’s move with the times eh!

If I was riding a footpath and someone took offence to me being on there and pushed me, I’d also leave it and move on without a word. Kind of caught with your hand in the cookie jar so to speak.

TBH I see walkers in the same way that I see Horses. Horse’s can be spooked by a car or other rider(s) who have gone before me and then they suddenly ‘flip’ at the next one who comes along.

Coming across all keyboard warrior-like wont solve anyones problems.

Why shouldn’t the rules on countryside access be changed so that cyclists can use public footpaths?

you can anyway, and usually no one bothers about it, except other vigilant MTBers of course!

various peeps in this thread seem to have challenged the legality/illegality of riding on footpaths (including SFB above me)

could someone please point me in the direction of the relevant docs etc regarding it as I am no a bit confused, the way I understood it was that it is illegal to ride on a ‘footway’ (ie: footpath next to road) and for that you can receive the fixed fines etc. but that cycling on a ‘footpath’ (ie in the country away from a road) was only illegal if local bylaws make it an offence…

I’m not calling anyone a liar, I’m just genuinely confused and want to know where I stand (or ride) with regards to this and would appreciate docs rather than more people like me who ‘think’ they know but who might not actually!

thanks guys!
Matt

The law says you can’t tho!

I have been stopped on a private estate road, but that is classified as a public footpath. I was told to get off and walk after a very confrontational approach by a couple of guys that looked like Chips and Poncho. That was a decade ago. The law is the law, even when it’s an ass!

I hear a lot of EvilZone members are keen ramblers.
Maybe it was one of them.

I’m just genuinely confused

that is the correct response, it makes no sense. Many bridleways are narrow singletrack, or even invisible, while many ‘footpaths’ are actually roads

Your 2nd paragraph is correct in England & Wales

It has absolutely nothing to do with him if you are riding on a footpath. He’s not the landowner (presumably) and therefore has no say. This is a simple case of assault. As Ian says above it’d be hard to do anything about it though.

In similar news I’m glad to see that they’ve left the footpath open on Emmerdale farm. I was getting quite cross about that story. The argument shouldn’t even have started…..errm, so the wife tells me anyway.

You shouldn’t have been riding there.

He shouldn’t have pushed you. At least he didn’t punch you.

I understand you being annoyed-your 1st? humility just ignore it or report it.

No doubt the other guy who pushed you will lie to the cops if he has the guts to push you.

Just ignore him. I’ve never had a prob yet but I don’t ride on non cycling routes-hop off the bike and he shouldn’t push you.

You could knock his teeth out but then you get a criminal record so just ride it off. He probably has a small willy and blaming you for it.

Next time wave yours back at him? 😈

Yes, “Hand in the cookie jar, it was your own fault” comments are wrong! Assault is assault!

If the same logic were applied, what some are suggesting is that if someone trespasses on your property or trangresses any law, you have the right to thump them! Clearly total nonsense! That would be anarchy.

There is an incorrect assumption that everyone fully understands the law too.

Nobody has the right to take the law into their own hands – period!

Nobody has the right to use violence except to defend themselves.

Amedias, your interpretation is correct.
The relevent legislation links can be found here I think.
http://www.bikeforall.net/content/cycling_and_the_law.php

It’s worth also remembering that a Public Footpath is a right of way for pedestrians without predudice to other users, so just because it say’s it’s a public footpath, doesn’t mean you don’t have a seperate right or permission to be cycling there.

I’d like to see the reaction if a walker was run off a trail by a biker at one of the trail centres! Similar indignant outcry from the same posters i suspect. Hypocrisy? No not at all!

FWIW I think the OP showed incredible restraint not lamping the person that pushed him. NO NEED AT ALL! I don’t think i’d have been so calm about it!

Section 16 of the Countryside and Rights of way act 2000.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts2000/en/ukpgaen_20000037_en_1

16. Section 2 gives people a right of entry onto access land (defined in section 1) for the purposes of open-air recreation, provided that they enter without breaking any wall, fence or gate, and that they do not contravene any of the restrictions set out in Schedule 2 or imposed under Chapter II. By virtue of subsection (3), the right does not apply where entry is prohibited in or under any other public legislation. Schedule 2 restricts activities and behaviour which may be undertaken in pursuance of the right of access. In particular, paragraph 1(a)-(c) excludes the use of any vehicle (including bicycles) or craft (on water), and horse-riding. Paragraph 1(d) provides that the commission of any criminal offence (which includes transgression of a byelaw) on access land will amount to a breach of the restrictions. Schedule 2 also includes specific restrictions for the control of dogs, including a requirement for dogs to be kept on short leads during the designated period, and in the vicinity of livestock. By virtue of section 2(4), people who break any of these restrictions will lose their right of access to land in the same ownership as that on which the breach occurred, for a period of 72 hours, and may be treated as trespassers by the owner of the land. Breach of a restriction will not in itself constitute a criminal offence, although some of the activities set out in Schedule 2 may constitute criminal offences under other legislation.

Which states that access to footpaths via cycle does not constitute a criminal offence, merely an act of trespass against the land owner.

MF I bet the pusher was not expecting you to not react, that was possibly the hardest option to take.

Top respect for keeping your cool.

Samuri, I’m believe you’re correct, but that extract is not to the point.

mastiles_fanylion – maybe you shouldn’t have been on the footpath, but frankly the guy deserved you to stand back up and punch him square in the face. It takes a lot of self control not to – I think you should take the moral high ground on this one.

I’m also 100 % behind Gingerbloke, if you are on a public road which you have just as much right to be on as the walker and they decide to step into your path, then they fully deserve any elbow/tit interface that may occur as a result.

I’m just shocked that this kind of thing happens in Harrogate.

Most of these passive aggressive threads could be avoided if people were more willing to share their opinions with those involved at the time of the incident.

I think you did well not to react,
cant beleive some people on here are pretty much saying it was o.k to push you off your bike just cos you were riding on a footpath, I take it it would’ve been o.k if they stabbed you as well?

some poeple on here need to get a grip, to many pc, know it all, holier than thou idiots are coming on here.

ChristoGinger – Member
cant beleive some people on here are pretty much saying it was o.k to assault someone just cos you got pushed you off your bike, I take it it would’ve been o.k for you to stab them as well?

some poeple on here need to get a grip, to many macho, violent, neanderthal idiots are coming on here. 😉

Oh, and love this-

I’m just shocked that this kind of thing happens in Harrogate

. Shandy, Disgusted of the North Riding.

(Pass me my quill Jeeves, I feel a robust letter of outrage to the Daily Mail coming on…)

Don’t ride of footpaths, just don’t.

crouch_potato my sarcasm was obviously lost on you. I am a big fan of Harrogate but lets face it most of the inhabitants are somewhat sheltered from the grim realities of modern life.

The point I was trying to make is that people are losing the ability to deal with confrontations or differences of opinion. These things are usually better dealt with at the time and forgotten about, rather than constantly replaying incidents in your head, allowing them to add to an increasing but unspoken frustration with the state of society, or indeed writing a strongly worded letter to the Daily Mail.

Sorry about that shandy, that was kind of the point I was making too. Sarcasm duly noted 🙂 .

I have been stopped on a private estate road, but that is classified as a public footpath. I was told to get off and walk after a very confrontational approach by a couple of guys that looked like Chips and Poncho. That was a decade ago. The law is the law, even when it’s an ass!

Even if it’s private land they can only ask you to leave their land and even then they can not assualt you except in self defence. Also they can’t demand you leave by a specific route and any damage to you or your property would be claimable in the small claims court.

Had a farmer point a shotgun at me once on a clearly marked bridleway (in mid-Wales) so I reported it to the local plod and he told me the guy was always doing it. Eventually he did it to a group of walkers one of whom made a citizen’s arrest! Turns out that the 10 metres between one gate on the bridleway and the next was actually over his land and wasn’t technically a bridleway! The judge decided that the gap was permissible by anyone using the bridleway and the farmer got a big fine and his shotgun licence revoked!

Sometimes the law is not a complete ass!

MR Potato,

That too is a fair point, apart from the macho ones tho;-)

Chris

Am I correct in thinking there were cyclists amongs’t the walkers during the ‘mass tresspass’?
I seem to remember seeing a photo once.

So did he actually physically push you or just move across the path towards you, giving you nowhere to go?

He walked towards me and as I approached he moved sideways as to shoulder-barge me off the trail and drop about 12 inches into the shrubs/mud. He did physically barge me out of the way – it wasn’t a case of m having to ride off the trail to avoid him.

TBH – I dn’t think I would hav it in me to smash someones face in for that incident though.

It is interesting though that some people think it is okay to do what he did because I shouldn’t have been riding there. If I had have ridden to his left instead of his right, I would have been on the river side of the trail and it drops away quite quickly down to the river bank. I wonder if he would have been deemed within his rights if I had have gone into the water and drowned?

And this is turning into a Smee thread. 🙄

No-one thinks (as far as I can see) that he was right to push you off, stab you, or drown you. But, user conflict is a fact of life and you appear to have been courting it. That doesn’t make him shoving you around right, but it may have been predictable. 🙂

shame you didn’t have time to ‘panic grab’ him to take him with you.

Would have to agree that riding footpath is cheeky, but NO excuse for barging you off, if he was that bothered a simple ‘Do you mind letting me through, this is a footpath you know?’ would have probably been enough to make his point.

Matt

You should of fell and rolled around like didier drogba, then watched their reaction.
Seriously sometimes it’s better to take it on chin, even if you feel aggrieved. I think we can all have times when we have been wronged.
On a different line. I was in chamonix on a bike holiday in 2003 and coming down the descent. Came upon two french walkers (father and son), slowed down to stop for them. Suddenly the father pushes his son out of the way, then cries “allez allez” and frantically beckons me down and pats me on the back as i pass. why can’t we all be friends.