TRYING TO PEDAL IN CIRCLES? DON’T BOTHER…

Why Pulling Up Doesn’t “Add” to Your Pedal Stroke Power.

The Cycling Myth That Won’t Die: Pedaling Circles

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/recreational-cycling/10840824/How-to-cycle-with-the-technique-of-a-pro.html

As a flat and clip rider (mainly flats) it’s way less effort to ride my uphill commute clipped in. Pulling up/pedalling in circles/unweighting the trailing foot whatever definatly helps. However you cant do it all the time. I find it relieves the regular pedalling muscle groups and the variety keeps me able to push harder for longer.
The boffins may day this isn’t right but it’s good for me and defo helps for me when riding longer distances on rough surfaces 30,40 miles up to 100 on the sdw.

surely whatever most closely resembles walking and/or running is best therefore pulling up with the foot is pointless right?

I’ve seen many articles going back 50 odd years that claim to “prove” theories about pedaling – mostly on the lines of “pulling up does/does not work”, “ankling is/isn’t real”. Some had no evidence beyond “it make sense that…” others purported to be proper studies.
Most were BS, like a recent piece in Cycling UK magazine that analysed pedaling in terms of pumping up and down to prove I can’t remember what.
To be honest there’s more sense in this thread than all of them – (a) the best, most effective action will be different depending on what you’re doing; (b) the same person might change technique; (c) it’s not all about the power; and (d) unweighting the upwards leg isn’t the same as pulling up.

As someone who works in an engineering field, I like a bit of science and data, and generally eschew the anecdote, however….
If I’m gurning my way up a steep climb, single speed, putting my whole body in to it, and my cleats are worn, I sometimes pull my left foot unclipped. I tend to unclip the left more frequently so this cleat wears more than the right. I suppose it’s possible I’m turning my foot at the same time, but I’m using time pedals, and these normally tighten when you pull in them. When muscles tire it’s useful to be able to change up what you’re using, even if it is less efficient.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=wMgEBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA174&dq=phil+burt+pulling+up+on+pedal+myth&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjbtKaPn8LfAhUfSBUIHYtbBPQQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=phil%20burt%20pulling%20up%20on%20pedal%20myth&f=false

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/knowledge/bike-kit/equipment/article/20170111-Equipment-Clipless-vs-Flat-Pedals-for-mountain-biking-0

PEDALLING TECHNIQUE – Which is best?

If I’m gurning my way up a steep climb, single speed, putting my whole body in to it, and my cleats are worn, I sometimes pull my left foot unclipped. I tend to unclip the left more frequently so this cleat wears more than the right.

Yeah, I do this too. When SSing I do pull on the upward side as I slow towards a stall on a low RPM climb, just as added grunt to get over the dead spot. Sometimes unclip if due to worn cleats. Never do this on the road / geared bike though, waste of effort and inefficient.

The Mid-Foot Position Manifesto: The science and movement principles behind the best foot position for you on the bike.

Why you don’t want to push through the ball of your foot when you pedal.

POWER TO THE PEDAL – CLEAT POSITION

On an MTB I find the biggest thing on long rides is my feet start to “wander” on flat pedals as I get tired. On spuds I’m just more comfortable long distance

However, for “fun” riding I much prefer flats. Just feel more stable and balanced. Plus I find it hard to bunnyhop properly in spds!

I’d love a set of true convertible pedals. The only ones that looked vaguely reasonable where atomlab ones but I think they were just vapourware

One problem in this thread might be understanding what we mean by pulling up. Good pedaling does involve unweighting the rising leg. This can feel like pulling up but it isn’t. Your just reducing the amount you are pushing down. This can be easier when clipped in as unweighted foot is more likely to move on the pedal

This is what I was going to say.

I think you are actively pulling up if you un-weight the trailing leg, you just aren’t pulling up enough to provide positive torque. But it still helps of course – otherwise, your leading leg is having to provide forward torque as well as lift the mass of your trailing leg.

I trained myself to pedal nice circles – this is perhaps one reason why I struggle to feel efficient on flats.

I trained myself to pedal nice circles – this is perhaps one reason why I struggle to feel efficient on flats.

nope.
A smooth pedalling action makes flats more efficient too.

Just ride a fixed gear for a while – Your pedalling will become smooth, you will become good at unweighting legs, you will be able to spin at 200 rpm and so on.

There is no way I would ride flats on fixed gear though.

nope.
A smooth pedalling action makes flats more efficient too.

Of course, but the problem I have with flats is that my trailing foot keeps coming off the pedal. So I’m clearly picking it up too much.

Smooth pedalling is the key especially in slippery conditions, basically not stamping on the pedals!!

Un-weighting on the upstroke is fine, it is what bodies are designed to do when walking, pulling up though places un-natural stress on your joints which is best avoided if you are looking to keep cycling well into old age like me!!

Of course, but the problem I have with flats is that my trailing foot keeps coming off the pedal. So I’m clearly picking it up too much.

You just have really poor flat pedal technique. You’ve documented it on here in detail.
If infact you are picking it up, your “trained” clipped in pedalling technique really isn’t all that either.

You just have really poor flat pedal technique.

That is what I meant yes.

If infact you are picking it up, your “trained” clipped in pedalling technique really isn’t all that either.

No? I was under the impression that pedalling in smooth circles and unweighting the trailing leg was a good idea? What should I be doing?

I mean I’ve read dozens of articles on it, so what I try to do is basically what they all say.

Get a fixed wheel bike and flat pedals and the skill level will come on leaps and bounds….

No? I was under the impression that pedalling in smooth circles and unweighting the trailing leg was a good idea? What should I be doing?

I mean I’ve read dozens of articles on it, so what I try to do is basically what they all say.

You have to realise, it is only in the past few years, that the power meter data, has been abundant and available for analysis. There are still a lot of articles and trainers who just regurgitate the myths and are ignorant of the findings.

The best cyclists, ie those on world tour teams, do not have smooth pedal strokes, do not pull up or unweight on the upstroke. In fact they mash the pedals as much as everyone else, that is what thousands upon thousands of hours of power meter data tell us is the reality.

And when you apply that the the biomechanics of the human leg and the pedal stroke, it is actually obvious that is the most efficient way, and the myths were actually rather silly.

What should I be doing?

moving your feet around the same circular path your pedal axle takes. (obvioulsy slightly off centre due to pedal/sole thickness)
This isn’t rocket science! It’s simply riding a bike.

The best cyclists, ie those on world tour teams, do not have smooth pedal strokes, do not pull up or unweight on the upstroke. In fact they mash the pedals as much as everyone else, that is what thousands upon thousands of hours of power meter data tell us is the reality. performance enhancing drugs will do.

The best cyclists, ie those on world tour teams, do not have smooth pedal strokes, do not pull up or unweight on the upstroke. In fact they mash the pedals as much as everyone else,

Got a source for this?

moving your feet around the same circular path your pedal axle takes. (obvioulsy slightly off centre due to pedal/sole thickness)
This isn’t rocket science! It’s simply riding a bike.

But where and in which direction do you push?

If it’s trivially simple as you say, how can I have bad technique as you also said?

There are a few links to relevant studies in this article:

The Cycling Myth That Won’t Die: Pedaling Circles

I thought the whole pedalling technique thing had been put to bed a few years ago, with the advent of power meters and force analysis. Basically it’s all about the downstroke. It doesn’t matter what your trailing leg is doing.

That’s more of an interesting article ^^