PSA: War on britain's roads on BBC1

The taxi M4 MYK seems to have a history of this sort of thing, theres comments on twitter and other forums about him being aggresive with other cyclists.

Got round to watching this last night.

It’s quite a one-sided war on our roads isn’t it? I kept waiting to see some poor terrified white van man cowering beside his flimsy vehicle, smashed to bits after being bullied off the road by the imposing mass of a skinny-jeaned fixietwat, but for some unfathomable reason there wasn’t anything like that. No skip wagons flipped over by enraged Brompton-riding architects. No buses or taxis gored on the powerful horns of a Cervelo or Pinarello. No cement mixers smeared across the give way lines, after a young lawyer on a hybrid turned left across them without looking. Weird.

cyclegaz is getting death threats according to the mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2244242/Id-happily-run-Cyclist-took-controversial-BBC-documentary-inundated-hate-messages-death-threats.html

Not surprising. He does regularly in YouTube comments.

As I recall Magnatom got a bunch of death threats too after appearing on Scottish news.

Aren’t people lovely?

“Angry motorists and cyclists took to Twitter accusing Williams of being ‘antagonistic’ and ‘confrontational'”

Ironing, etc…

Gah! I’ve been on the Mail site again. I feel dirty now 🙁

It does amaze me that newspapers (and the bloody BBC!) are now prepared to constantly quote (anonymous) people on Twitter, when ultimately it merely represents the narcissistic ramblings of the mentally ill

I did agree with one point

The white guy in glasses arguing with the black taxi driver is going to get himself killed one day

Pretty much what I thought when I saw him hand-clapping the taxi driver to deliberately prolong the confrontation. One day you’re going to do that to the wrong person…..

I’ve not watched the programme, but from what I gather from the 7 pages on this thread: the BBC made a ‘documentary’ using motorists and cyclists who are giant testicles. Why not use examples of ‘normal’ people rather than utter penises?

🙄

Even cyclists seem to think it’s all the fault of the cyclists.

Weird, huh?

How many decades have attitudes toward cycling been put back thanks to this so-called ‘documentary’?

It also seems that Twitter is populated with the societies most massive tools. Tweeting death threats? For goodness’ sake. Grow up.

😀

On another note, I don’t understand people who’s immediate response to being angry about something is to immedaitely condense their feelings into 140 characters or less and hammer it out in the Twitter. Weirdos.

😉

Point taken. But the general feeling on this bike forum seems predominantly anti – cyclist as it is only focusing on the glasses guy.

The Daily Mail could take numerous quotes from this thread alone to support and evidence their story.

“Angry motorists and cyclists took to Twitter accusing Williams of being ‘antagonistic’ and ‘confrontational'”

What’s the bets that these very same people frequently go completely apeshit behind the wheel?

It also seems that Twitter is populated with the societies most massive tools.

Read and weep:
Tweets by CycleHatred

Waiting at the level crossing this morning, a taxi driver got out of his car to berate the young lady on her bike next to me, standard argument:

“you’re going to get yourself killed riding in the middle of the road”

” I was just making sure you didn’t overtake me as there wasn’t enough room because of the parked cars”

etc etc etc

She seemed to understand her rights, was fully hi-vized up, but from seeing it close up, he wasn’t going to change his opinion as the cave man red mist had already set in. I recognised myself in various incidents sadly.

A bit like that programme, (apart from the obvious, campaigning bereaved mother) neither parties really ‘learnt’ from the programme, no-one empathised and it just reinforced entrenched opinions.

He didn’t spot the obvious ironing that they were both trapped at the same level crossing….

“you’re going to get yourself killed riding in the middle of the road”

Aaargh!

So his argument is that he clearly saw her, had to moderate his speed and consider how to pass her properly.. and that is somehow a “bad thing”??

Nnnnnnnngg…

We REALLY need a national campaign that explains what Primary Position is and why cyclists are officially encouraged to use it by government-approved cycle training.

I always wonder why they don’t get so GARRRRRRGH angry every time they have to stop to go round a parked car.

So his argument is that he clearly saw her, had to moderate his speed and consider how to pass her properly.. and that is somehow a “bad thing”??

Its the “my journey is more important than your’s” syndrome, boils down to, get out of my way as I’m more important than you.

We REALLY need a national campaign that explains what Primary Position is and why cyclists are officially encouraged to use it by government-approved cycle training.

What I said up ^ there somewhere. This is the crux of the problem. The vast majority of drivers really do believe that cyclists should be riding in a manner which allows them to get past as quickly and easily as possible (ie in the gutter). Anything else is simply seen as wilful obstruction on the cyclist’s part.

On the plus side, I’ve now done 100 miles commuting in rush hour Manchester traffic this week and apart from the usual harmless instances of poor judgement (like overtaking you just before a red light), I’ve not had a single incident to speak of this week. I think this might be a first.

Its the “my journey is more important than your’s” syndrome, boils down to, get out of my way as I’m more important than you.

Yeah, there is definitely prevailing attitude in this country that you can’t be going anywhere important if you are on a bike. And that you are probably poor as well.

But in pictonroad’s example the taxi driver actually gets out of his cab to tell the girl how dangerous it is to ride in the middle of the road.

Does he actually believe that? Or is it just insincere code for “stay out of my way”?

People are selfish and full of their own self importance.
Lorry driver v car driver or cyclist or pedestrian.
Driver v cyclist or pedestrian.
Pedestrains v cyclist (as seen with the woman on the cyclepath collision).
Cyclist v pedestrain (as seen with the courier race and RLJers).
FIN.

joao3v16 – Member
I’ve not watched the programme, but from what I gather from the 7 pages on this thread: the BBC made a ‘documentary’ using motorists and cyclists who are giant testicles. Why not use examples of ‘normal’ people rather than utter penises?

Because they made it largely from youtube footage. Which is a rather self-selecting group. Both in terms of who wears a camera in the first place, and then the incidents they choose to share. Doing their own filming would presumably have cost more.

I originally didn’t watch it, then saw some comments that it was more balanced than expected so had a quick look last night.

The main thing that struck me is that it bears no real resemblance to my experiences on a bike. Yes I’ve had close calls and been hit once (twice if you include the time a pedestrian stepped out in front of me, but that was 16 years ago now), but the majority of my commutes are incident free. Maybe the odd thing where you mutter something under your breath or roll your eyes but nothing where I feel the need to bang on cars or shout at drivers. Maybe that’s also because I’m not that sort of person, but then I’ve only ever seen one shouty cyclist round these parts (when I was out for a run rather than on my bike – and I hadn’t see what the car driver had done to provoke it so I’m not sure whether it was justified or not).

There was too much focus on people getting shouty after incidents which seemed to be a question of angry people taking their frustrations out rather than being representative of cyclists or drivers.

I’d have liked more focus on understanding what’s going on – e.g. why cyclists take primary (which they covered a bit) or choose not to use shared use paths (the collision footage could have been used to demonstrate why above a certain speed cyclists are likely to prefer the road – in saying this I’m not taking any blame away from the cyclist who was going too fast for the situation, but saying that given the choice between cycling at a speed that’s appropriate for a path like that and cycling down a road many cyclists will opt for the road). Likewise a bit more about blind spots on lorries – we got a bit about improving safety by adding mirrors but not a proper explanation of why they were needed and why it’s still not a great idea to squeeze down the side of them.

Ultimately, if it’s a war which side am I meant to be on? I cycled to work this morning and I’ll drive home tonight. I sometimes run down shared use paths (in the dark and with no lights but some reflective kit). And most of the inconsiderate driving I see is directed at other cars rather than cyclists anyway.

It just didn’t reflect what cycling is like for me, and didn’t really seem to do anything other than give shouty people a platform.

has anyone confirmed it was a cycles only path? if it’s shared use path cyclist should accept most of the blame.

There’s a road down by a river here which is closed to motor vehicles so is shared use. Over summer I hit a woman on my road bike. She’d had a bit of confusion about which side I was going to pass her which I didn’t help and when it was clear I was going to hit her I dumped the bike into the barrier at the side of the road so I hit her a glancing blow which hurt but didn’t knock her down. I was out a pair of gloves, a bit of damage to my brand new shifters and bunch of blood and skin.

Even though she apologised, it was my fault because I was behind and could have slowed down. Once we’d worked out both of us were more or less okay and I’d said sorry a few times we both went on our way.

is it just insincere code for “stay out of my way”?

Of course it is (it’s also code for “I’m a massive penis”). The prevailing attitude amongst motorists is one of entitlement.

“”I pay all this money, I was promised freedom, my motorcar coddles me like a baby so I can act like a spoiled child, where’s my freedom. . . . “

Motorists also seem to be in intense denial of the fact that no one using a motor vehicle has a right to the road. They have permission to use it if they pass a (ridiculously simple) test, have their vehicle tested to check it’s roadworthy, insure themselves againt the damage they can cause and pay a duty to compensate the rest of us for their emissions. That permission can be and is removed if they misbehave.

The only people with a right to the road are pedestrians, cyclists and horse-riders.

But all that is probably like speaking in tongues to most motorists as there are many words with more than one syllable.

Just because there’s a correlation between wallopers and driving a car, it does not mean that driving a car makes you a walloper.

Good programme.

Watched this last night. the speccy boy is trying far too hard to look for trouble. He’ll find it one day.

And regards to the boy that nearly good killed by the truck, that was just stupid. I always make eye contact with drivers too, but ye also keep an eye on what they are doing, especially when it’s a lorry, you give way. You might have a right to go first, but jebus, sometimes it’s safer just to slow down for a second longer to make sure a lorry is aware of ye. lucky boy, but he should have been more careful.

Much as the law might say we have equality on the road, in reality we really don’t. But if people want to argue that point with a 20 tonne truck, batter in, Darwinism at work i reckon.

Overall though, my assessment is that everybody needs to chill.

the speccy boy is trying far too hard to look for trouble. He’ll find it one day.

Really? Seemed pretty reasonable to me. A bit shouty, and the incident with the taxi driver shown was OTT, but to say he’s looking and looking far too hard is way off the mark.

lucky boy, but he should have been more careful.

And seriously? Yeah, he was lucky, but he did make eye contact, did check to see if the lorry had stopped and got the **** out the way when he realised it hadn’t. What more could he of reasonably done? If we stopped on every roundabout every time a lorry was coming we’d end up being in even more accidents than we already are.

Overall though, my assessment is that everybody needs to chill.

I’d agree with this bit though. Drivers who cut me up or who don’t see me and make me stop/take evasive action usually just get a withering look and a shake of the head, no point in getting all irate and shouty.

Really? Seemed pretty reasonable to me. A bit shouty, and the incident with the taxi driver shown was OTT, but to say he’s looking and looking far too hard is way off the mark.

If you don’t think so fair enough, my opinion is he was a smirky wee cock, playing games from an imaginary pedestal thinking he is some kinda road regulator. We’ll agree to disagree. Simple fact is, bad drivers are always going to be there, understand that and it all becomes a good deal easier.

And seriously? Yeah, he was lucky, but he did make eye contact, did check to see if the lorry had stopped and got the **** out the way when he realised it hadn’t. What more could he of reasonably done? If we stopped on every roundabout every time a lorry was coming we’d end up being in even more accidents than we already are.

He could have checked his speed a little more so he could see the lorry was actually coming to a stop, and kept a better eye on the lorry. instead he carried on pretty much assuming the lorry had stopped until the oh f*** moment. He didn’t need to stop and he wasn’t in the wrong. Mibbe it’s just me, I’m a bit more carefully at roundabouts and especially around lorries, and I’m more than willing to waive my rights if they conflict with my right to live.

my opinion is he was a smirky wee cock

My assessment exactly. He’ll do it to the wrong person soon enough, and get the mother of all shoe-ings for his trouble, on or off camera

Just catching this now, seems abit biased on the drivers side at the moment, the cyclist in the glasses **** with a capital T and gives everyone else a bad name. Watching the girls mother at the moment, to lose anyone is tough but to someone elses stupidity just makes it worse.

I’ve been hit twice, once i was younger and tbh was my own fault hit by an oncoming car coming out of a junction, i didn’t stop perhaps i should of. 20 years ago helmets where those white tv packing stuff, not very fashionable but i remember it bouncing off the windscreen. The second time was this summer, mini roundabout i had right of way, nothing coming from my right, got swiped from behing rear wheel bent to buggery i ended up on the kerbs, driver well drove off didn’t stop, another driver stopped and helped me up.

For those bemoaning the lack of any insight in the programme, apparently they filmed, but didn’t use, a long interview with a Professor type whose specialist subject is the psychology of car driving. Shame.

the cyclist in the glasses **** with a capital T

Yet another person quick to criticise the cyclist. And why? Because he’s a bit cocksure, has the arrogance and self righteousness of youth (who didn’t at that age?), and is willing to stand up for himself. I admit that he doesn’t come across as the sort of person I’d hang around with for fun, but the amount of vitriol on he’s attracted on here would do the Daily Mail comments page proud.

apparently they filmed, but didn’t use, a long interview with a Professor type whose specialist subject is the psychology of car driving. Shame.

I think I’ve found it.

😀

Really must get around to watching this. I get the feeling that CycleGaz has not been portrayed well, possibly due to some judicious editing. I’ve followed him for quite a while on YouTube and don’t find him to be “capital T” or a “smirky wee cock”.

In fact he does pretty reasonable and informative videos and runs the Silly Cyclists website which highlights good and bad roadcraft from cyclists.

Well, they certainly provoked debate.

None of it helpful.

Pretty much what I thought when I saw him hand-clapping the taxi driver to deliberately prolong the confrontation. One day you’re going to do that to the wrong person…..

you seem to be stuck in this point binners and again I feel compelled to point out he said he’d over reacted, he apologised and presumably he won’t be doing it again. Moment of idiocy we all have them especially when juiced up on post incident adrenaline

But the general feeling on this bike forum seems predominantly anti – cyclist as it is only focusing on the glasses guy.

wells its singletrackworld a forum populated by a lot of audi* drivers who occasionally walk their dandy horse round a trail centre, its not a cyclist forum and certainly not a road cyclist forum.

* hey if I’m doing sweeping generalisations 😉

Graham ive seen loads of gaz’s youtube vids so biased, I’ve asked other none STW people who saw it and yes apparently he did come across as a bit arrogant, tho not i think as bad as several here seem to say, see what you think.

a forum populated by a lot of audi* drivers who occasionally walk their dandy horse round a trail centre

Hilariously spot-on. 😆
Perfect!

I’m not sure if it’s an age related viewpoint, but it looks to me that increasingly bikes and motor vehicles just don’t mix well on our roads.
In my youth I spent every day riding in traffic in London. These days I’d hate to do it.

Cars are much quicker and able to accelerate faster than ever before. That increases the risk to cyclists sharing the tarmac.

It’s not right or “fair”, but the car is king and I don’t see that changing.

more* 20mph zones would even things up a bit.

(*and better policing of existing zones)

wells its singletrackworld a forum populated by a lot of audi* drivers who occasionally walk their dandy horse round a trail centre, its not a cyclist forum and certainly not a road cyclist forum.

Oh yeah? 😆