PSA: War on britain's roads on BBC1

R4 today programme – review of show around 2.41 in.

Nope. Clicked through – couldn’t find it anywhwere.

I was approaching a dog leg in the road and heard something approaching fast from behind. I didn’t like the idea of anyone passing me on this dog leg

I don’t go through those sort of sections of road without checking behind visually and taking primary. If that had been, say, an electric car, you’d not have heard it.

What’s the cost of an accident?

Metro ran something recently saying “Deaths and injuries on Britain’s roads costs the NHS £470m every year and the economy £8bn”.

I thought I’d heard some £m’s per (fatal?) accident before. How much did the twunts taking themselves out of the gene pool racing on the M1 cost the country I wonder? M1 closed through morning rush hour plus huge cleanup?

Deaf people: I have heard they tend to have heightened awareness through their other senses, and therefore are probably more sensitive to what is going on around them than most other people with all senses working perfectly.

I’m only partially deaf but other senses are not heightened, we just pay more attention the the ones we have and be aware of situations where visual checks are more necessary due to not being able to hear.

You can use the same behaviour when using headphones, or on a very windy day when travelling at speed (often louder than music in ears), having headphones in is not inherently dangerous as you CAN still hear and as long as you are aware of the impact it has on your senses and the need to compensate in certain circumstances.

You can hear more on a bike with headphones in than you can in a car (even one without the radio on) unless you have the volume up stupidly loud.

Really? On the bike I’m higher up than most drivers with no pillars casuing blind spots and in traffic I can usually see further ahead than if I was in a car.

Yeah but mirrors help in a car – I’m very conscious of what’s happening in my mirrors, look around a lot on the bike too but can never be as good.

The thing about Als hero Gaz is that he seems to think it is his right and resonsibility to pull people up and change their behaviour, sorry to burst his bubble but its not.

You will notice as he was riding along how many other cyclist managed to not get into a fight with the motorists.

The fact is he is going out looking for trouble clearly he is going to find it, if he rode in a slightly more defensive manner then his blood pressure might be lower.

I think we have to realise that the road network is designed for cars, buses and lorries NOT bikes (motor or push)

Once you accept that then life is a bit easier.

Im not saying its right, it just happens to be the way it is. In the case of self preservation i consoder every vehcle a threat and i ride in a manner that will keep me out of its way as much as possible.

Eyes and ears open at all times.

Yeah but mirrors help in a car

side mirros give a bit of view but with blind spots and probably a whole load of complacency and misplaced feeling of safety, on a bike it’s pretty easy to turn your head and again no pillars or steamed/iced up windows restricting your view. centre mirrors help you see what’s directly behind you which is where none-exorcist cyclists struggle, but what’s directly behind you shouldn’t* be a problem assuming they’re following the rules.

Getting everyone to follow the rules is what we’re after (and a shitload of proper infrastructure)

*of course we know it sometimes is, but like with the roundabout stuff discussed earlier if taken to the extreme you’ll never ride on the roads or ride everywhere an inch form the kerb at 2mph and keep stopping every minute to check for idiots. Be prepared for shit to happen but don’t constantly defer to the larger traffic.

Really? On the bike I’m higher up than most drivers with no pillars casuing blind spots and in traffic I can usually see further ahead than if I was in a car.

Yeah but mirrors help in a car – I’m very conscious of what’s happening in my mirrors, look around a lot on the bike too but can never be as good.

In a car your vision is surely better simply because it is not hindered by balance and shifting body weight. Turning to look out your passenger window in a car doesnt affect the car at all however on a bike you have to shift your weight a little to balance the bike

The thing about Als hero Gaz is that he seems to think it is his right and resonsibility to pull people up and change their behaviour, sorry to burst his bubble but its not.

Edmund Burke?

Are you really complaining about someone trying to make a difference rather than knowing their proper place, rolling over and meekly taking it as they should?

Confrontation isn’t my style, (I’m perhaps a bit older and wiser than Gaz) but I’d stand my ground and ride in the way I believe is safest, even if it means upsetting the odd driver.

The fact is he is going out looking for trouble clearly he is going to find it, if he rode in a slightly more defensive manner then his blood pressure might be lower

I don’t think he’s looking for trouble he just doesn’t cower in the gutter and let bully drivers push him around the road. If someone drives badly near you, ignoring it means they’ll never change their ways, now obviously there’s a lot of debate on how the best way to tackle this but just meekly accepting it coz the other boy is bigger than you is 100% guaranteed to fail.

Often they are not the same

mechmonkey – Member
In a car your vision is surely better simply because it is not hindered by balance and shifting body weight. Turning to look out your passenger window in a car doesnt affect the car at all however on a bike you have to shift your weight a little to balance the bike

😐

Cyclists are all stupid/arrogant.
EVERY cyclist runs red lights.
EVERY cyclist should use the cycle path if there is one.
EVERY cyclist is a nob and it should be banned.
Cyclists should never be in the middle of the lane, regardless of safety.

did they actually watch the program?

The problem with the program is it didn’t really explain anything. It was just two opposing sides slagging each other off without any reasoned middle-ground. It’s all right knowing the cyclist’s point of view to begin with, but most people don’t and are naturally going to side with the opinions of the drivers. When they say ‘get back in the cycle lane, you ****!’, many will be sitting there nodding their heads.

From a general prespective it done nothing but reinforce stereotypes, and since there was a distinct lack of reasoned commentary, the general public will fill in the gaps as they wish.

I wouldn’t mind too much. At the end of the day we don’t have to watch. But since it’s on the BBC we do have to pay for it. They could easily have put together a genuinely interesting piece and taken a reasoned approach as they do with most of their documentaries – or at least the ones I watch, I must admit I don’t watch a lot of TV. Instead they thought it better to represent cyclists as a bunch of militant-vigilantes. Sure, some of them seemed like nice blokes, but add in a little bitterness and people quickly choose their sides. There was no mediation.

The whole thing was confrontational.

Fair enough Binners.

Another thing that annoyed me – throughout the programme drivers were speculating “look at that cyclist wobbling, they’re bound to cause an accident” etc – as if speculation is evidence.

They also failed to make the fundamental point that the cyclist will always come off worse ina collision.

I think a presumption of guilt on the driver is the way ahead.

EDIT and those creating cycle lanes that conflict with AIM/HC advice (in that they are too narrow) are to blame.

Aye the 2 folk on Today actually did a half decent job – especially the cyclist (MArtin Hutcheson?)

Michael Hutchinson, apparently, a cycling journo. Bit of a relief – wouldn’t want people thinking I was being reasonable on the radio.

You guys are just Trolling now, its so obvious he is looking for trouble David Blunkett could see it.

martinhutch – Member

Aye the 2 folk on Today actually did a half decent job – especially the cyclist (MArtin Hutcheson?)

Michael Hutchinson, apparently, a cycling journo. Bit of a relief – wouldn’t want people thinking I was being reasonable on the radio.

What’s the timing on the radio piece?

Yoiu would know a troll steve as your pleasant way opf presenting yor view amply demonstrates

i think you should mark hwk in this style 😉

Woppit – I thought it was in the last 5m – I’ll check.

stevewhyte – why polarise the argument and ridicule me? Doesn’t show you in the best light, mate.

D0NK – Member

just meekly accepting it coz the other boy is bigger than you is 100% guaranteed to fail.

^This^

Around 2hrs 42mins in.

its so obvious he is looking for trouble David Blunkett could see it.

Nope sorry. I’ve watched quite a few CycleGaz vids and I don’t think he “looks for trouble” at all – he just challenges it when it happens. Generally he seems to ride very sensibly (he has posted some very dull videos to illustrate this but obviously no one watches them) e.g.

I’d agree some of the other YouTubers are fairly full on (magnatom, cyclingmikey) but even then I don’t think they actively look for trouble – they are just a lot more verbal than most when it happens.

Im not polorising the argument and to be honest you are the one calling people morons are you not?

from my point if you realise that people in cars are going to do stupid things then you will probably likve longer.

If you go out deliberatly looking for trouble then you are going to find it, clearly Gaz was looking for trouble. I am in no way saying that the drivers were not at fault but he could easily have avoided most if not all of the situations. He delibriatly tried to noise up the taxi driver he even said so on his film.

The point was well made by the woman who lost her daughter, and reiterated by the woman on the Today programme.

It’s a competative space on the roads, it should be a cooperative space.

I’ve watched quite a few CycleGaz vids and I don’t hink he “looks for trouble” at all – he just challenges it when it happens.

Yep. From some of his clips I’ve seen his cycling in general is impeccable. His only crime is not backing down when it happens.

CycleGaz is a saint compared to another guy whose video they used. The full version improves the context.

And this is a pearler…

(Warning – contains sweary content…)

I think a presumption of guilt on the driver is the way ahead.

along with a presumption of guilt against cyclists whenever pedestrians are hit, perhaps?

Only saw a minute, where a taxi driver who looked like a normal bloke was saying he was just trying to make a living was followed by a cut to a slightly smirking, geeky looking chap who didn’t say anything.

Couldn’t help thinking that message was “look, here’s this guy- he’s just like you, just trying to get on and provide for his family. But just look at this guy, trying to make a point at our expense.”

OK, I’m reading a lot into a minute! But it suggested the tone was ‘normal people vs militant cyclists’ which is not helpful at all.

That first video is part of my commute. I seem to manage to ride down those roads all the time without the need for either shoutyness on my part, or being assaulted! Its hardly central London!

As I said before, i only know one person who’s been physically assaulted on his bike, and its happened to him twice. But if you met him you’d understand why. He’s an absolute ****!

Martin Porter’s well considered view

Michael Hutchinson, apparently, a cycling journo.

Also a very successful bike racer, and more significantly a qualified lawyer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hutchinson_(cyclist)

Also a very successful bike racer, and more significantly a qualified lawyer

Didn’t he also sing in INXS?

That first video is part of my commute. I seem to manage to ride down those roads all the time without the need for either shoutyness on my part, or being assaulted! Its hardly central London!

As I said before, i only know one person who’s been physically assaulted on his bike, and its happened to him twice. But if you met him you’d understand why. He’s an absolute ****!

I knew two guys who used to courier in London (maybe 10 years ago now). One managed to get through the week without any major problems and he actually held the record for a long time for number of deliveries made in one day for that firm. You don’t get those kind of records by riding 100% within the letter of the law, it requires a fair bit of creative riding at the best of times! However, he never really had any problems, certainly never got knocked off.

The other guy never went more than a couple of days without a confrontation. He rode in the same sort of way as Courier 1 above but never kept his head. Smashed up numerous cars, got into arguments, got beaten up (and beat up more than a couple of other people), got knocked off. Shouty, loud, always thought he was right even when he was lying on the ground having been decked mid junction after jumping the red light.

If you go looking for trouble you will always find it. If you keep your head, you’ll largely escape unscathed, even when you’re in the wrong (jumping reds, riding on the pavement etc).

I seem to shout at other cyclists more than drivers these days.
when they realised that there was a cycling boom in London two or three years ago they should have taken action to make sure that everyone was behaving.
Now cyclists just take the piss when it comes to riding like morons and running red lights. The damage has already been done.

I don’t think he’s looking for trouble he just doesn’t cower in the gutter and let bully drivers push him around the road.

Exactly. Sadly the predominant view of drivers, which was completely confirmed by last night’s programme, is that cyclists should ride in the gutter so that they can get past as quick as possible. Even more sadly it would appear that a significant number of people on this forum agree with them!

It’s obviously not a good idea to antagonize them but if someone cuts you up (like the guy who deliberately cut in on me at high speed last week cos he took exception to me being in the middle of a bus lane) or comes dangerously close then I think you’re within your rights to say something or give the vehicle a slap to let them know they’re driving like d*cks. It’s not ‘looking for trouble’, it’s defending yourself.

“you’re within your rights to say something or give the vehicle a slap”

Car on Car … you beep the horn and have a swear up at the fella infront, whos cut you up what ever, … thing is he really can’t hear you screaming and shouting and does’t feel that threatened, even if he has heard the horn

Bike on Car … no horn, so you slap the car and because you are next to the drivers/passengers window the fella can hear and feel threatened/wound up by every word you shout…

Add to this the fact that you are already “out” of your vehicle you can understand why the fella in the actual car gets out of his and all merry hell breaks lose.

Take care peeps

thing is we’re talking about slapping a car here, not smashing it up, keying it or otherwise damaging it. People are sooooooo sensitive about their cars despite the fact they have driven ridiculously close to a cyclist or pedestrian, what do they expect?
Mid stupid manoeuvre slapping a car to alert the driver of your presence is fair game IMO, will get a quicker reaction* than just shouting. Slapping car as punishment after the fact…you’re on dodgy ground and yes antagonistic, you can get a similar less aggressive effect by stopping next top them putting your hand on the roof and leaning in to the window to (hopefully) discuss what a knob they’ve been, depends on circumstances tho.

*ie they’ll immediately hit the brakes rather than look around wondering where the shouting is coming from

Funny how they get so upset at the merest of touches of their vehicle from a cyclist yet drive them in a manner which is likely to cause much more significant damage when they crash it into something/someone.

For the record, the only time I will slap a car is if they are alongside and coming closer, and not as an after the fact act of retribution. Can’t say I’ve not fantasised about getting one of these though 🙂

I’ve tried to stop ranting, as its me on the bike that looks a plum. If in slow traffic and i’ve been irritated I like to just half open (on the latch not swinging open) the rear nearside door. Obviously if its a 3 door or there is a little’n it wont work but when it does it tickles me.

Once I saw a roadie have a fag flicked at him. He then undertook and squirted most of his bottle contents through the van drivers window

Funny how they get so upset at the merest of touches of their vehicle from a cyclist yet drive them in a manner which is likely to cause much more significant damage when they crash it into something/someone.

I’ve had that exact discussion with someone once when I slapped his car as he was pushing me sideways into the kerb pulling a no-look-left-hook on me…

Can’t remember who it was (Luke maybe?) Who used to advocate opening the boot of offending car, saying you’re piece through the now open boot before riding off. Unfortunately, I’ve never been in a situation to give it a go 😛

dazh that would be criminal and wreckless (and possibly funny as *** doing it to a deserving recipient)