We had this one recently…

“I won’t currently name names, or locations until I’ve researched this a little more, but I was recently contacted by a Parish Councillor who has received a complaint from one of their residents
The complaint is because a resident has to drive onto the road from her home between parked cars.
Groups of cyclists regularly use the road at the specific time she leaves, and she’s checked with her insurers and if she was to drive onto the road and cause cyclists to hit her because she can’t see them approaching, it would be deemed as her fault….
Thus she feels the need to complain.
I kid you not.”

Fantastic innit?!

Just received this from my club secretary;
Hi everyone,

***** police have received a formal complaint about cyclists pedalling through **** village in “peloton style, at both great speed, volume and with a degree of arrogance”. They have also had informal complaints and comments from motorists about the difficulty of trying to pass large volumes of cyclists between *** and the A*** via ******* and *********, many riding two or three abreast.

Sadly, we can’t do anything about non-***** ****** ****** Club riders or those passing through **** following the Walney to Wear and LEJOG routes, but can we please ensure that **** ****** riders always consider other road users, including overtaking motorists (just single out), and are courteous to pedestrians, horse-riders and drivers alike.

Who’s your club secretary, Gordon Ramsay?

tbh my personal view is as cyclists you need to be whiter than white on the roads. riding 2 a Brest is ok if needed but theres nothing wrong with going single file. We all know that half of the folks driving cars couldn’t pass a test now and that’s not going to change.

riding 2 or 3 abreast and saying I have a right to be here is akin to an audi slip streaming you on the motorway or someone doing slow speeds in the car.

Now I agree if we were to replace the cyclist with a classic car that’s knackered going slowly no one would have an issue and people would pass just fine but I do think people have a hatred towards us.

On the flip side some people really don’t help themselves. recently while waiting at some lights they had turned to green and I was setting off. A few guys from condor road cycling club overtook the line of traffic on both sides (while it was moving) and cut into the roadwork section infront of moving traffic. Now im all for filtering but it was a joke. its things like that that give everyone on a bike a bad name.

not sure how to improve things tbh. im all ears.

Every road user group has poor road users.Locally, simply due to the fact 99% of road users are in vehicles, going faster, weight more and kill more, the real issue is motor vehicles.

+1 and everything else is just noise to me.

We had this one recently…

Someone contacted your club with that line?

Who’s your club secretary, Gordon Ramsay?

Actual LOL.

I’d have thought that when someone makes an informal complaint to the police about something that’s safe and legal, they’re supposed to respond “thanks for your concern but just to let you know, that behaviour is safe and legal and no cause for concern.” or similiar. And as a brucey bonus, possibly work with them a bit to find out what their problem is.

andybrad – Member

tbh my personal view is as cyclists you need to be whiter than white on the roads. riding 2 a Brest is ok if needed but theres nothing wrong with going single file.

The implication being that riding 2 abreast is somehow not whiter than white? In many situations, pairing is safer and beneficial for all road users. It stops marginal overtakes and it also makes you easier to pass. The only people who’re “inconvenienced”, if you’re doing it right, are people who wanted to overtake you dangerously but now can’t. And **** them.

lerk – Member

she’s checked with her insurers and if she was to drive onto the road and cause cyclists to hit her because she can’t see them approaching, it would be deemed as her fault….

You’ve got to love that she phoned her insurers and asked the question “Am I allowed to run down cyclists”

Why are motorists complaining about difficulty trying to overtake if you are going too fast?

theres nothing wrong with going single file.

Yes there is in some circumstances. It can be more dangerous for the riders and more awkward and frustrating for the car drivers.

tbh my personal view is as cyclists you need to be whiter than white on the roads

Well I think that’s a bit blinkered. I think we should all obey the rules, but especially when piloting a big metal box at speed. Lets not beat around the bush here, even a terrible cyclist is unlikely to be much of a danger to anyone, if anything you could argue (I wouldn’t, but you could) they have less responsibility to be whiter than white as they are not posing a danger, the level or requirement to be ‘whiter than white’ should logically escalate with the danger/threat you pose shouldn’t it? 😉

If you mean we need to act as ambassadors for ‘cycling’ in general then I get where you’re coming from but riding a bike is jsut another transport choice, I’m just a guy riding a bike, I’m no more a representative of ‘cyclist’s than I am a representative of drivers when in my car and I have no more responsibility for what other riders do than I have for other drivers when I drive my car.

riding 2 a Brest is ok if needed but theres nothing wrong with going single file

Riding 2 abreast is not just ‘OK’ it is often the safest and most appropriate way to travel when in a group, and there certainly can be something wrong with going single file if it doubles the length of your group and at the same time encourages people to pass when not safe as they think they can squeeze through.

If it is safe to overtake properly (with enough room and crossing the wite line) then 2 abreast makes the overtake safer. If you can only overtake the group when singled out then it is likely not safe to overtake properly at all.

Sure you should pull over if your group is travelling too slowly and causing an obstruction for an extended period of time, but that’s likely to apply to national limited but narrow lanes and not 20-30mph town roads where it’s safer for everyone to just remain in a group, 9 times out of 10 any overtaking cars will jsut get held up at the next set of lights anyway.

I do think people have a hatred towards us.

and THAT is the problem, but why is there that hatred, really think about it, it’s not because a few cyclists jumped a red light once (as drivers also do BTW) or some ride a bit poorly is it, it’s deeper than that…

On the flip side some people really don’t help themselves. recently while waiting at some lights they had turned to green and I was setting off. A few guys from condor road cycling club overtook the line of traffic on both sides (while it was moving) and cut into the roadwork section infront of moving traffic. Now im all for filtering but it was a joke. its things like that that give everyone on a bike a bad name.

And this reinforces my first point and really winds me up when you hear anecdotes like that, what you saw was an example of poor and inconsiderate cycling, yet somehow that gives all other cyclists a bad name, you are tarring me (and yourself) with that brush despite me never having met or associated with those people in any way, the only thing we share is a mode of transport and a hobby. But do you tar yourself and all your family and friends with the brush you use on drunk drivers or people speeding, or people who drive inconsiderately? bet you don’t… why does a bad cyclist ‘give us all a bad name’ when a bad driver does not?

Bez!!!! help!!!

tbh my personal view is as cyclists you need to be whiter than white on the roads.

Yes. Best not upset the Proper People in their cars. If we’re all perfect all the time, them maybe they won’t hate us, shout at us or try to kill us any more.

riding 2 or 3 abreast and saying I have a right to be here is akin to an audi slip streaming you on the motorway

You are confused. Riding two abreast is good cycling. Riding three abreast is not. But neither are aggressive and dangerous, whereas tailgating on the motorway is.

There is nothing wrong with asserting your rights. Everyone does it all the time. There is a large part of the public who would rather cyclists just didn’t exist. The law protects our right to be there. In an ideal world, we shouldn’t have to assert our rights, but as a marginalised group of road users, we do.

We have a right to travel on the road by bicycle. We have a right to ride two abreast, and drivers are expected to be patient.

Whilst it is sometimes prudent and polite (ie on a narrow road) for a group of cyclists to “single out”, remember that this usually only makes safe overtaking more difficult. Someone else has already posted the Chris Boardman video on “why cyclists ride two abreast”. Please watch it.

It is also polite and considerate to pull over and allow faster moving traffic through :0)

I do it all the time, in me VAN!

Considerate road users is what’s needed, leave the bullish attitudes at home.

Well I think that’s a bit blinkered. I think we should all obey the rules, but especially when piloting a big metal box at speed. Lets not beat around the bush here, even a terrible cyclist is unlikely to be much of a danger to anyone

people on bikes (i’ll not use the term cyclist) kill about half to 2/3 of a person a year.
dogs kill 2-3 people and cows kill 6-7 people a year.
as for cars lorries etc? well in one year 16 cyclists were killed by lorries in London alone.

it’s all about duty of care. if you are piloting a metal box that weighs 3/4 of a tonne upwards and can travel at speeds which make those metal boxes lethal killing machines then you should take steps to control that vehicle properly by paying attention, obeying the laws and not using your mobile phone.
it’s not rocket science but years of conditioning and this countries love affair with the motor car mean it’s beyond most peoples cognitive ability.

Why are motorists complaining about difficulty trying to overtake if you are going too fast?

Beaten to it, but this. You can’t simultaneously be riding too fast and also holding me up.

I love the “degree of arrogance” comment. How dare they use MY roads and get in MY way and slow ME down?! They’re so arrogant!

firstly thanks for those replies to my bit, really enlightening. cheers.

I agree with what your saying. Im aware of the need to cycle 2 abreast. what I feel is the issue is that someone in a car is more than likely going to try and overtake a group of cyclists. If they are traveling at 35 in a 30 then you can still bet that a car will want to overtake. If they are 2 abreast (or single fine) then you can bet that the car will try and overtake and squeeze between the riders and a bollard or something. It just seems to be a given really.

yes we have a right to be there. Yes we are not a danger. unfortunately everything else is and I think that cyclists are seen as fair game? thanks to the media.

If they are 2 abreast (or single fine) then you can bet that the car will try and overtake and squeeze between the riders and a bollard or something. It just seems to be a given really.

yes we have a right to be there. Yes we are not a danger. unfortunately everything else is and I think that cyclists are seen as fair game? thanks to the media.

Well if this is the case (in my experience it isn’t) then we should be calling for the driver in question to adjust their behaviour, not the cyclists.

Two-abreast riding, and taking a primary position in a lane, is done precisely to discourage the sort of risky overtaking manoeuvre you describe.

I think big road clubs should consider is buying a few cameras and recording their club rides (front and rear-facing). Same for organisers of sportives IMO – would capture footage of good and bad behaviour by anyone on or beside the road and might help dispel unfair suggestions

I definitely think OPs club should take this opportunity to engage actively with the local police

I think big road clubs should consider is buying a few cameras and recording their club rides

I was just thinking this. It shouldn’t be necessary, should it? But…yeah.

Considerate road users is what’s needed, leave the bullish attitudes at home.

And this is what needs to be driven home to all road users. No one’s saying cyclists should be subservient. It doesn’t matter how few people we kill, it only takes a few inconsiderate idiots to get all cyclists a bad name.

Not all car drivers are cyclist hating murderous psychopaths, but you’d think they were if you read some posts on here. Blinkered stereotyping works both ways.

my personal view is as cyclists you need to be whiter than white on the roads

Racist!

Although it’s American, I read this and immediately thought of this thread (and it’s hundreds of predecessors):

https://medium.com/@kellycatchpole/i-am-a-cyclist-and-i-am-here-to-****-you-up-a2fb97b1ea16#.oyb36dkp5

@MCTD – my Q yesterday was genuine: What distinguishes a “formal” complaint about an unidentified road user from “a moan”, and what action would police take if one was made that differes from them just receiving a moan ?

, but you’d think they were if you read some posts on here

Which ones? Can’t agree with this myself.

Late EDIT: Link appears to not work in my post above – I found it via twitter of @sallyhinch posted yesterday (18th May) called “Cylists: The Truth”

Sorry ’bout that.

EDIT EDIT: Originally posted here, dunno if this will work with the URL having a naughty word in it..

Let’s try that again…

EDIT EDIT EDIT: The swear filter changes the URL – if you follow the above link, but replace the four ****s in the URL it directs you to with a rude word starting with “f” and ending with “k”, it should work. Probably not worth the hassle tbh and I’m now wishing I’d not bothered, but here we are anyway.

Roadie peleton = mob mentality cocks.

I’m not saying I agree with this, but I did have a recent incident where a similar opinion came to mind. Riding on Underhill Lane at the bottom of Ditching Beacon, a large roadie club ride came in the opposite direction taking up the entire width of the single lane road. Meaning I practically ended up in the bushes at the side of the road.

They did apologise to be fair and I made it clear that I wasn’t best pleased. But I still don’t know what they thought they were up to. Never seen it before and undoubtedly an isolated incident. And I’m not for one second saying it’s only roadies that do this kind of thing. You don’t have to be in lycra to be an inconsiderate muppet.

I wonder whether the people moaning about riding 2 up have ever been on a club / group ride?

It would be a very different, boring ride in single file.

The group I ride with are very disciplined in their road form, tight 2 up grid singling out where necessary. We still regularly get ‘punishment passes’ and people beeping their horns as they pass even when there is no impact on their ability to overtake.

You can’t win an argument with a stupid person as they’re not clever enough to realise they’re wrong.

what you saw was an example of poor and inconsiderate cycling, yet somehow that gives all other cyclists a bad name, you are tarring me (and yourself) with that brush despite me never having met or associated with those people in any way, the only thing we share is a mode of transport and a hobby. But do you tar yourself and all your family and friends with the brush you use on drunk drivers or people speeding, or people who drive inconsiderately? bet you don’t… why does a bad cyclist ‘give us all a bad name’ when a bad driver does not?

Agreed, or to put it another way as I often do when for example a taxi driver comments to me on other riders who have just jumped the set of lights we are waiting at “just cos we both ride bikes doesn’t mean we are friends.”

we limit the numbers in our groups to avoid strung out difficult to pass groups.

just saying.

How ever i am also surprised the club secretary has sent this out id have had a similar response to those stated above – thats possibly why im not a club secretary 😀

taking up the entire width of the single lane road.

While no doubt they should have been thinking about what they were doing and what would happen if there was anyone coming the other way, I have to wonder, what would you have done (or them for that matter) if there had been a car coming the other way?

Single lane presumably means ‘wide enough for a single vehicle only’ so were they actually taking up more room that a car/van/lorry/bus/tractor would have done?

I don’t wish to single out your example as it sounds like they were not being considerate on that occasion, but it highlights a related point in that a lot of people fail to realise that a cyclist is a vehicle, and for all intents and purposes, due to need to avoid debris potholes etc. that the ‘virtual footprint’ of a cyclist on the open road should be viewed as similar to that of a car, especially when attempting to pass them.

we limit the numbers in our groups to avoid strung out difficult to pass groups.

as do we, and most decent and long standing clubs do, but I have noticed an increase in more social/casual clubs (as opposed to old road/racing clubs) who are more a collection of mates on a group ride, who don’t have such tight control, or awareness, and I wonder if a lot of that is because they have jsut never been in a club and taught about group riding.

On a lot of the club/group riding threads you see popel pop up saying things like ‘all those rules are why I’d never be in a club’ and similar sentiments, but the point is that a lot of those rules and the essance of good group riding is as much about safety as it is efficiency, and those people who shun clubs for being overly rule-bound will often quite happily go out for a ride with 5 or 6 mates and be the ones with no awareness of what they’re doing.

hey ho, idle pondering from me thats all 🙂

@scaredypants – I honestly don’t know. I have quite a good relationship with our local beat bobby after he cautioned a driver who assaulted me after an exchange of words. They’d had reports of a car driving dangerously but no full registration, so I think I gave him the piece of the jigsaw to finally get the driver for something.

He said that reporting incidents helped build up a picture or pattern of behaviour, two separate incidents might give them a full registration number, so to let him know if I had any problems. I’ve done it a few times, not always from cycling, usually youngsters tearing round the village on unregistered mopeds and trials bikes. It stops after I contact the police. Job done.

hey’d had reports of a car driving dangerously but no full registration, so I think I gave him the piece of the jigsaw to finally get the driver for something.

I see. In what way was your complaint “formal” ? Was it filed and given a number, or what ?

Club secretary sends out missive reminding members to show “consideration to other road users”. What exactly is the problem with that ? Pretty sure no one here actually saw the riding that generated the complaints, so how can you say it wasn’t in some way inconsiderate.

Club secretary sends out missive reminding members to show “consideration to other road users”. What exactly is the problem with that ? Pretty sure no one here actually saw the riding that generated the complaints, so how can you say it wasn’t in some way inconsiderate.

Because if you’re complaining to the police that cyclists were riding too fast and it was also hard to overtake them and they had a “degree of arrogance” the problem might actually be with the person making the complaint.

Because if you’re complaining to the police that cyclists were riding too fast and it was also hard to overtake them and they had a “degree of arrogance” the problem might actually be with the person making the complaint.

This.

And also, “showing consideration”, to many, means “getting out of the f**king way so I can get past in my car”. Which isn’t reasonable.

^^^
But you don’t know that do you, only that you want to believe thats how it was. I don’t either, but if concerns are raised (real or imagined) any responsible club secretary would pass them on. It’s called being a grown up. Some of you should try it.

scaredypants – the incident with the assault was formal – the driver got a caution

The other incidents – I don’t know – or care really – if it was formal. I told the copper about a problems, the problems stopped occurring. I don’t care if he filled in paper work for 3 days or just had a quiet word.

out of interest, is it actually possible to make a formal complaint about this sort of thing ? (trivial matter, anonymous “perpetrators”)

[quote]Of course it is. I’ve done it about cars when I’ve not had a full registration.[/quote]So “no, unless you count assault as trivial” ?