• This topic has 50 replies, 36 voices, and was last updated 2 days ago by nickjb.
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  • Petition to increase speed limit on electric bikes
  • Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    There is no speed limit on ePeds, is there? Or do you mean electric only bikes?

    Premier Icon Poopscoop
    Subscriber

    Bookmarking.😉

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Oh, I see… I’ve checked the petition… you mean the assist limit. Look up Speed Pedelecs… the law allows those already.

    chevychase
    Member

    You can increase it. Just pay for insurance.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Subscriber

    allowed under euro law – not UK IIRC

    Stupid idea anyway. Yes for experienced and skilled urban commuters 20 mph would be good but the carnage from others would not be so good. Netherlands has seen a huge amount of injuries to older folk at 15 mph.

    Stupid idea.

    mattyfez
    Member

    Must be a troll petition,

    “All electric bikes in the UK are subject to an assisted speed limit of 25Kmh”

    “We would like the government to consider adjusting the limits to be in line with US legislation of 20Mph.”

    They hate the metric system. 😉

    CraigW
    Member

    You can increase it. Just pay for insurance.

    And type approval, registration, a number plate, a motorbike licence/CBT, and a helmet.

    Premier Icon frankconway
    Subscriber

    I’m rarely in agreement with TJ but he’s spot on ^^^
    This is irresponsible and dangerous.

    Excellent idea.
    15, mph is just too slow for keeping up with traffic while commuting and hitting flow trails whilst shredding the gnar

    Premier Icon singletrackmind
    Subscriber

    30kph or 18mph would be fine , I am going to stick a caveat on that
    Less power
    500watts is huge , very few riders can sustain 500 watts or even produce 500 watts
    Why not limit the watts as well, hard to legislate I know but not impossible
    For most people having 150-200 watts extra would be fine, yes you would have to put in some effort but thats kinda the point
    Or just go slower . less watts = smaller batteries , less weight , less trail deg, less cost
    quicker charge times if thats an issue
    Ask anyone you knows their ftp or trains to watts what riding with a constant 200w output is like , then adding even 1w/kg to your own output would feel like
    going from 3w/kg to 4w/kg at the flick of a switch turns you from fat lad at the back blowing out your arse, to trail god status or keeping up with commuter traffic

    nickjb
    Member

    Seems sensible to me given that 20mph is deemed to be a safe speed limit in urban areas. If it is too fast for (powered) bikes then surely we need amend the speed limit for cars too.

    I can see the need for a lower limit on shared use paths, but that is probably already the case even with solely human power.

    Mister P
    Member

    Thank you for sharing your views in a well reasoned and eloquent post OP.

    trail_rat
    Member

    Shared use paths have a suggested limit of 12mph.

    Sustrans suggest that more than 18 and you should be on the road/non shared path.

    Shared paths are shit but they are our best option for a safe cycle route. We will never get dedicated cycle paths.

    So I’m pro ebike limits as they are.

    The mechanism is there for faster limits. If you can’t be bothered (and will also lose the ability to go on shared paths) …..well

    ransos
    Member

    15mph is too fast for plenty of shared paths.

    Premier Icon butcher
    Subscriber

    My experience is that these things are already scary enough on the continent where they’re now quite common.

    Can’t really see any increase in power as a good thing unless they’re licensed and limited to use on the roads only.

    I’ve hacked my commuting ebike (as posted about on here previously) so it does 20/21mph. 15mph is unsafe on busy commuting roads – the few extra mph makes all the difference.
    HOWEVER – i’ve been commuting the same route for 15 years, i only use my extra ‘speed boost’ through one particular stretch of road the rest of the time I sit at 15mph. There’s no way I would want the recent covid converts to bikes let lose on anything faster than 15mph.

    I know the legal ramifications of ‘hacking’ and accept them.
    Keep the current legal framework – if people want to go faster they can hack it with the legal consequences or buy a moped/125cc/pedalec and the associated licencing requirements

    chevychase
    Member

    I guess you also accept the potentially fatal increased speeds with a heavy ebike that pedestrians unwittingly suffer for them too do you @rustynissanprarie?

    This is the thing about people who break the law – they always think about themselves and what risk they will accept and don’t give a monkeys about the risks they pose to others – who don’t have a say.

    Premier Icon ampthill
    Subscriber

    I thought there was a 250W limit? I’d say that the current limit is an ok compromise.

    I might be persuaded that of a slightly more phased limit. Maybe you should get 250W at 25 km/h, 125W at 27.5 km/h then zero at 30km/h. So fit cyclists can go a bit faster.

    Premier Icon leffeboy
    Subscriber

    My experience is that these things are already scary enough on the continent where they’re now quite common.

    I’m with this. A lot of folks I see on ebikes just aren’t safe at 25 and it’s way too easy to get to that speed.  It’s fine when there is nothing funny happening and the road is clear but, for example, I see them heading up the outside of slow moving traffic into oncoming cars at full speed.  There is nothing stopping you riding faster than 25, just either ride harder or get insurance. I’m ok with that

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Subscriber

    Stupid idea anyway. Yes for experienced and skilled urban commuters 20 mph would be good but the carnage from others would not be so good. Netherlands has seen a huge amount of injuries to older folk at 15 mph.

    Stupid idea.

    Damn right. The risks outweigh any benefits. And brings out all those who feel that a law intended for general public safety shouldn’t apply to them.

    And needing to up the power to keep up with traffic on busy commuting roads? Lord knows how I’ve survived commuting into Nottingham when my average is about 12-13mph.

    I’ve hacked my commuting ebike (as posted about on here previously) so it does 20/21mph. 15mph is unsafe on busy commuting roads – the few extra mph makes all the difference.
    HOWEVER – i’ve been commuting the same route for 15 years, i only use my extra ‘speed boost’ through one particular stretch of road the rest of the time I sit at 15mph. There’s no way I would want the recent covid converts to bikes let lose on anything faster than 15mph.

    This is stone cold the best post on stw in years, bravo, well done. Keep being awesome.

    I’d sign a petition to make the things slower. Did my annual visit to a trail centre last week. Only riders who harassed or even hit my 9 year old son were ebike ****.

    “Seems sensible to me given that 20mph is deemed to be a safe speed limit in urban areas. If it is too fast for (powered) bikes then surely we need amend the speed limit for cars too.”

    If ebikes pre-dated bike lanes then this argument would make sense. But sadly we have bike lanes that struggle with bikes going 15mph, let alone faster. An ebike can go a lot quicker down a wiggly town centre bike lane than a road bike because it can accelerate so fast up to its limiter.

    Premier Icon argee
    Subscriber

    Never felt the need to get more than 25.5kph out of mine, if i’m going downhill or flat the motor stops and my legs kick in more, when i hit uphill the motor kicks in and i get a little rest, it’s not as if you hit 16mph and the bike becomes impossible to use, unless you’re in high assist mode, if you’re in eco and hit the limit, the changeover isn’t horrific.

    Plus the age old question on this type of thing, why do you want to go faster, are you in some type of race, or time limit, can’t think of many scenarios where this is true for me, so adding 5 minutes to a trip isn’t a total killer.

    munrobiker
    Member

    I’d say it’s an argument that makes sense cgg. E bikes exist now and people don’t commute by bike because they don’t feel safe in those bike lanes. Keeping up with traffic, meaning cars aren’t constantly passing them, is probably one of the main things that will make people feel safer and increase bike commuting numbers. Which is a good thing for the environment, for people and for congestion.

    Klunk
    Member

    Keeping up with traffic, meaning cars aren’t constantly passing them, is probably one of the main things that will make people feel safer and increase bike commuting numbers. Which is a good thing for the environment, for people and for congestion.

    whats stopping them ?

    Other kinds of electric bike

    Any electric bike that does not meet the EAPC rules is classed as a motorcycle or moped and needs to be registered and taxed. You’ll need a driving licence to ride one and you must wear a crash helmet.

    The bike must also be type approved if either:

    it can be propelled without pedalling (a ‘twist and go’ EAPC)
    it does not meet the EAPC rules

    This should have been done by the manufacturer or importer before you bought it. If it’s been type approved, it will have a plate showing its type approval number.

    Premier Icon Greybeard
    Subscriber

    It’s fine to promote electric mopeds for road use but I’m with TJ on keeping the current limits on electric assist. The difficulty will arise if they are visually similar, then we’ll get modeds on bridleways and shared paths for which they’re not suitable.

    Premier Icon butcher
    Subscriber

    Keeping up with traffic, meaning cars aren’t constantly passing them, is probably one of the main things that will make people feel safer and increase bike commuting numbers.

    If you want to keep up with traffic you want a motorbike.

    If you want a bicycle, you don’t want something that keeps up with traffic.

    They’re completely different things and you really don’t want to blur the lines between the two. The main thing that will make people safer using alternative forms of transport is providing the infrastructure for them. But that infrastructure also becomes unsafe if you add powerful motorised vehicles to them.

    The difficulty will arise if they are visually similar, then we’ll get modeds on bridleways and shared paths for which they’re not suitable.

    Already happens in Holland and it’s stupid. Mopeds buzzing you at 30mph in bike lanes.

    Premier Icon dudeofdoom
    Subscriber

    If you want to keep up with traffic you want a motorbike.

    If you want a bicycle, you don’t want something that keeps up with traffic.

    They’re completely different things and you really don’t want to blur the lines between the two.

    I think your spot on.

    Theres currently a lot of complaints On the Bath-Bristol Psychopath at the Bristol end to do with the speed of the cyclists who actually pedal ‘too fast’.

    Not sure how well that’s going to play out with the proposed freshly bought 20 mph legal Beast, let alone once it’s been derestricted.

    Especially with the fresh batch of gremlins 🙂
    May be worth pursuing a form of cycling proficiency for the adults.

    “E bikes exist now and people don’t commute by bike because they don’t feel safe in those bike lanes. Keeping up with traffic, meaning cars aren’t constantly passing them, is probably one of the main things that will make people feel safer and increase bike commuting numbers.”

    You can’t safely increase the speed limit of an ebike from 15 to 30mph without fundamentally changing what it is. You need so much more motor and battery power, which then means a lot more weight. You need much more powerful brakes. And the percentage of power an average person can add to the motor would then arguably be so low that pedals become pointless. And you have to ban them from bike lanes. And introduce driving tests and insurance. And helmet legislation.

    If you want an ebike that can do 30mph assisted then what you really want is an electric motorbike, which already exist.

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Subscriber

    Plus the age old question on this type of thing, why do you want to go faster, are you in some type of race, or time limit, can’t think of many scenarios where this is true for me, so adding 5 minutes to a trip isn’t a total killer.

    Great to see so much common sense on here. Ebikes could and should revolutionise leisure and utility riding, making it an option for all – my disabled wife for example. Speed has nothing to do with it.

    You want to go faster, especially given the acceleration, get a proper electric scooter/motorbike. Get a license, tax, insurance, etc and keep off cycle/shared lanes.

    Premier Icon epicyclo
    Subscriber

    It’s basically a re-invention of the moped, ie a small motorbike.

    Like the moped they should be on the road only, with number plates and rego (but free), and insurance because they have an equal ability to do harm. Their speed limit should be 35mph.

    I have no problem with assisted eBikes on our paths and trails so long as the power is limited to no more than average human capability. Emphasis on average, not a peak.

    BaronVonP7
    Member

    Seems a touch of the Audi Quattro about this – there was a safety argument pro power combined with 4 wheel drive but the apocryphal outcome was that there weren’t fewer accidents – the accidents just happened further round the corner.

    I recon widen the split – reduce the power/speed for unlicensed/uninsured ‘leccy bikes and raise the performance for licenced/insured units. (More correctly, create a “middle” tier of ebikes).

    Low powered units for trail centres unless you are a blue badge holder.

    Aidy
    Member

    Seems sensible to me given that 20mph is deemed to be a safe speed limit in urban areas. If it is too fast for (powered) bikes then surely we need amend the speed limit for cars too.

    You do have to have a license, registration, insurance, and MOT for cars, though.

    My bike has a first gen Shimano 6000 motor – it doesn’t disconnect well and is really draggy. It’s hard work peddling over 15mph and is a lot slower than my gravel or road bikes through a fast tight double parked section of my commute hence my 20mph hack.

    My off the cuff opion is that 20mph is a bit high.

    Recently, I think I’ve managed my first two Strava Gran Fondos (100Km+) in under four hours having tried them for ~3 years, on routes with 66-70 feet per mile, ~16.9mph average with Normal Power of ~215W (~2.7W/Kg).

    I think 15.5mph cut off is a little low, especially if you ride flatter routes. Something like 17/18mph might be better, although that means mixed bike/ebike groups are going to further splintered up inclines.

    a month or so ago I posted on hear about using a ebike to help with a 30 mile ew flat commute. The consensus was it wouldn’t work due to the 15mph limit. Despite that I feel that 20mph is only of use for very few people. The greatest win for ebikes is for getting people out of cars for sub 10 mile commutes, usually in towns and cities. Here a 20mph limit is likely to cause safety issues with pedestrians and as others have said an electric moped covers those who need more speed and / or range.

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Subscriber

    My bike has a first gen Shimano 6000 motor – it doesn’t disconnect well and is really draggy. It’s hard work peddling over 15mph and is a lot slower than my gravel or road bikes through a fast tight double parked section of my commute hence my 20mph hack.

    Would sir like a bigger shovel?

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Subscriber

    I derestricted one of mine for a particular ride. I could get it up to 35mph on the flat and burnt through my battery in 8 miles

    If the OP is in Germany do they not have the speedpedelec class? They do in some European countries

    Ebikes are limited to 250 watts

    montgomery
    Member

    My sister, a middle aged woman with dodgy hips who doesn’t drive, has a Raleigh ebike she uses for the stuff most people drive cars for: commuting, shopping trips, visiting friends, going for a pub lunch on nice days. She loves the freedom her ebike gives her, and has no interest in hacking it or taking the piss. She did >3000km on it last year, more than many of you do on your stupidly expensive plastic dandyhorses. I’m a big fan of ebikes for this. People like the OP are going to wreck it for reasonable, considerate human beings like my sister. Selfish ****.

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