I do it (the overtaking thing not the tailgating bit) for the simple reason that i like to travel at the speed limit if possible.

Just to clarify…..it was the tailgating bit I can’t fathom out, not overtaking, especially on a motorbike, where one of the joys is not being held up by cars 😉

I have, and you haven’t clarified, so if I assume you were talking about in speed limits other than 30 (and that they don’t speed in 30 limits), your first post on this is where it went OT – and written in a manner designed to start an argument.

The main reasons i overtake people, in order, are:

1. I get frustrated sitting behind another car even if I’d be going at the same speed as them.
2. Driving the van i like to maintain speed and stay in one gear where possible, some grannies are on their brakes more often than they tell folk their age.
3. Get where I’m going quicker.
4. It’s fun.

I bet there’s a lot of people with similar thoughts.

Round here and a lot of the places I drive the roads are often clear enough that you gain a bit overtaking somebody doing 50, though as others have suggested I also find it less frustrating not to be sitting behind somebody going that fast. Not that I’ll be all that bothered with somebody doing 50, and almost certainly wouldn’t bother overtaking somebody doing 55 as suggested above.

glasgowdan: 2 & 3, I can kinda understand but I can’t say I feel frustrated if I’m behind another car that’s driving at the speed I would. That’s fine by me, it’s another set of eyes 100 metres further up the road that can give me advance warning of trouble.

And 4? Overtaking is fun? Nope, don’t get that one at all.

Can you not just rig up some kind of l.e.d. sign in the back window that you can have pre-set messages that pop up just by hitting the number to suit.

‘Three choices – continue tailgating,keep a safer distance,or overtake me. One of them is a really good option’

And 4? Overtaking is fun? Nope, don’t get that one at all.

I get frustrated by my inadequacies during the day, both anticipating them during the morning commute, and mulling over them on the way home. Overtaking makes me feel a little better about them because it’s like we’re in a race, though I care little for whether you’re racing or not. My day has been dull and the roads are my race track – I need to make progress and hey, we might both be at the back of the same queue but I’m one in front of you. Might make all the difference as the lights turn amber and I make it through and you don’t. 🙂

i just dont understand the drivers who slow as they approach green lights

Ah. Sometimes I do this. Traffic lights sometimes mean tricky junctions, and sometimes people do stupid stuff at junctions. If it’s tricky I want time to be sure that some dick isn’t going to come through on red and kill me. I don’t brake hard, usually if it’s a 60 or 50 I lift off and cover the brakes just in case. It’s not that likely, for sure, but the stakes are high and it probably doesn’t even cost me two seconds.

Doesn’t “green” mean “be prepared to stop”?

Not for me. It means pray to the God of green lights (it’s a simple prayer; one line, repeated over and over: “stay green”) and amber means “speed up”. I have progress to be making.

Ah. Sometimes I do this

Me too, for the same reasons.

I’m also one of those annoying people mentioned above that slows down at roundabouts and give ways even when I can see it is clear. That article on saccadic masking started me doing this. (It’s amazing how many videos there are of cyclists being hit or close-missed by drivers approaching “clear” roundabouts and junctions). Plus you can’t rely on others following the rules, and many roundabouts are effectively big blind corners.

There’s a difference between “being prepared to stop” and “halve your speed going through the lights just in case.” I’ll lift and cover for a moment too if it looks to be a bad junction with poor visibility (and will be very cautious if the lights have just changed), but I won’t have been dragging the middle pedal for half a mile beforehand.

I’m also one of those annoying people mentioned above that slows down at roundabouts and give ways even when I can see it is clear.

Slow down, sure. Come to a dead stop and only then start looking round, it’s time to consider a bus pass.

You give way even when you can see it’s clear?!….Jesus wept.

You give way even when you can see it’s clear?!….Jesus wept.

I reckon he meant coming to a junction with a “Yield” warning triangle or some such.

Some of you should go on a speed awareness course (and I’m sure some have or will have had an invite to one 😉 ). Not so much the parts purely about speed, but the awareness of risks parts.

The green light one is an example. Aside for the lights changing quick on you, especially if you’re a way behind and trying to belt through quick, you’ve got dangers of oncoming traffic on green and turning who decide to turn not expecting you to be going so fast, pedestrians who try to risk it crossing, emergency vehicles who can go through on red, bikes shooting through on red 😉

Roundabouts that are definitely clear and you can see plenty of distance for potential risks, sure I may not entirely stop but I’m slowed and prepared to stop and I won’t belt through as there are many who will. I’ve been caught out often by idiots who aren’t looking or think they are invulnerable so belt through them even when something’s coming thinking they’ll get away with it.

Loads of risks about from people who may not be behaving legally or following the highway code, but I’d rather not kill someone or myself if it’s a risk I can avoid.

You give way even when you can see it’s clear?!….Jesus wept.

I slow down so I can check the road properly as I understand that the effect of Saccadic Masking means that a quick look left and right as you approach can leave you completely convinced that a junction is clear when it isn’t. Especially if the traffic isn’t car shaped. It’s probably the main reason for SMIDSYs.

Worth a read:
http://www.slobc.org/safety/documents/road-survival-guide.pdf

It doesn’t bother me when someone “gets stuck” behind me when I’m driving on the speed limits in 30s, 40s and 50s. At least I’ve slowed them down and potentially saved a life or two. Sanctimonious? Possibly, but I couldn’t give a sh1t nowadays. I’ll never wind people up by driving under the limit unless circumstances forced it, but I won’t let some d-head force me to go beyond legal safe limits. Outside of our motorised tin boxes, these people must surely respect where most people live, their kids, pets, etc. But inside their motors, they’re a different breed.

I’d like to hear a driving examiner’s take on that one.

Our Examiners round here wouldn’t fail a candidate for 55 in a 60 they would, at worst, give them a minor.

50 in a 60, for a distance could fail them. A lot of it depends if the candidate sees a repeater sign then speeds up or if they sit a 50 in a 60 with a massive queue behind them…….

50 in a 60, for a distance could fail them.

That’s interesting simmy. 50mph in a 60 is not that slow and I wouldn’t have thought constituted anything which could be classed as bad or poor driving. I was teaching someone to drive who had been with BSM and they were doing 60mph on an NSL road at a point where I felt it wasn’t appropriate, especially given their lack of experience and was told that was what they had to do! Can’t understand the logic behind it as it is, after all, the maximum speed allowed for good conditions etc.

Seems people are taught how to pass the test rather than how to drive properly?

50mph in a 60 is not that slow

+1

Almost seems like a collective hysteria about driving to the maximum allowable has taken over the testing system. You can’t be responsible for the safety issues caused by people behind you who get frustrated because they’re not doing 60 in an NSL.

I’m perfectly content to sit behind someone doing 50 on the NSL parts of the A65. I might overtake them if it’s a clear and easy spot, but chances are I’ll catch up behind someone doing 40 pretty soon anyhow.

Seems people are taught how to pass the test rather than how to drive properly?

Think they are and that can be part of the problem – speed limits seen as targets.

My instructor used to encourage me to get a move on coming back from the test town I practised in – the A4 was nice and wide with next to no traffic during the day then – but equally would let me know if I was trying a bit hard where it wasn’t appropriate.

Seems people are taught how to pass the test rather than how to drive properly?

Absolutely.

I teach as much as I can about real world driving, take students to different areas to get experience of different road layouts etc, but the test is only 38-40 mins long so how can that be ” driving for life ”

Some test routes around here don’t go above 30 mph and to get a student upto 70 mph before test I would have to travel 20 miles though 2 towns to get to a location that allows that legally.

On the other hand there is a 40 mph road right near the test centre that is really bendy and narrow and the examiners actually prefer the candidates to do 30 than 40 on that section.

Woody – Member

There really isn’t much point in overtaking (and never any excuse for tail-gaiting) on most non-motorway roads these days, in a car anyway, and I can’t fathom out the mentality of people who do it!

It is very simple.
The main reason we drive cars is because it is quicker to get from A to B than walking.
Overtaking slower traffic allows one to drive faster and arrive quicker, the whole point of the exercise. 🙂

Seems people are taught how to pass the test rather than how to drive properly?

It’s an interesting attitude.
If everyone drove the way I was taught (YMMV) there wouldn’t be any accidents*.
I think the above sentiment is normally used as justification for lazy, shit driving.

*Though there may still be speeding fines. 😆

Overtaking slower traffic allows one to drive faster and arrive quicker

Alternatively, it allows you to drive faster for half a mile until you reach the back of the next queue of slower-moving vehicles.

There are some roads (or some times of day) that make overtaking worthwhile, but mostly, around here, it gains you nothing or virtually nothing.

It does give me something to point out to the kids when you can see that the guy who has been stressing himself out over the last 10 miles tailgating and overtaking multiple cars (again, on the A65), is still in sight less than a minute ahead.

Overtaking slower traffic allows one to drive faster and arrive quicker, the whole point of the exercise

The whole point isn’t to arrive as quickly as possible, it’s to arrive quickly enough and as safely as possible.

The answer to these questions is the same thing. Tailgating because you want to go faster than the vehicle in front is bullying, pure and simple.

Tailgating really fkn annoys me. Not so much when its done to me – 4th gear and a prod of the accelerator will see the back of most tailgaters but when I see drivers bullying other road users.

My brother used to drive a ridiculously fast and loud Mitsubishi Evo, he told me he use to bully the bullies. If he saw someone tailgating and deemed it was bullying – for example a Nissan Micra legitimately overtaking slower traffic at the speed limit being tailgated by some knob in a 320d – he’d tailgate the tailgater. Most of them got out of the way pretty quickly, especially if his anti lag was on!

This behaviour is neither big nor clever but I can’t say I disapproved all that much.

molgrips – Member

The whole point isn’t to arrive as quickly as possible, it’s to arrive quickly enough and as safely as possible.

You appear to have missed the bit where I said

“The main reason we drive cars is because it is quicker to get from A to B than walking.”

I can see how you may have been misled by the latter half of my post, but I’m sure you’ll agree with the above. 🙂

Overtaking certainly can get you where you need to go more quickly, at least where I live in rural Derbyshire it does. Maybe not so much in an area that’s more suburban and speed limits vary regularly but, for example, a friend and I set off at the same time from Ladybower to head back to Matlock on Saturday. I overtook a handful of cars on my way home and got back an entire fifteen minutes earlier because he ended up behind so many people doing 40, or regularly 30, in a 60. Enough time for me to dismantle a bike, my mate to shower and us reload the car to get him to the train station in time.

I obeyed the speed limit the majority of the way- I’m not too down with speeding and the main discussion of overtaking in a 30 is clearly a bad thing. People do it through our village. The speed limit on the A road through our village should probably be a 40, but is a 30- regardless, people tailgate and overtake their way through it and it’s unfair on those of us who live there and are exposed to that sort of driving on a regular basis.

I can see how you may have been misled by the latter half of my post, but I’m sure you’ll agree with the above

True, but you seem to be conflating overtaking in 30s with being quicker than walking.

If you don’t overtake in a 30, it’ll still be significantly quicker than walking over most distances.

Re being held up – it makes less difference than it feels like. If drive to Farnborough on a clear road I can do it in 2h15 normally. If I get stuck in motorway traffic jams and generally have a crap journey, it’ll take 2h30. On country roads, if I drive to my parents’ house and get stuck behind slow traffic the whole way and get stuck in traffic in Hereford, it’ll turn a 90 min journey into a 100 min journey. Which really is not that significant.

molgrips – Member

True, but you seem to be conflating overtaking in 30s with being quicker than walking.

I hadn’t mentioned overtaking in 30 zones, and my initial post was in reply to someone else who also wasn’t talking about just 30 zones. 😕

Also, unless you walk really really quickly, or overtake at a speed slower than walking pace, then you can quite correctly conflate overtaking in 30s with being quicker than walking. 😕

Are you tired today molgrips? 😆

What’s wrong with people just starting the journey 5-10 minutes earlier to allow for traffic? Is this the reason everyone’s in such a rush to get everywhere?

Just because the satnav/Google maps/previous journeys at quiet times suggest you can do a journey in 50 minutes doesn’t mean you are going to do it in 50 minutes. Plan for 60 and if you arrive early it’s a bonus!

Tailgating really fkn annoys me.

I don’t case so much about tailgaters, unless I have a bike in the boot – as it will be their fault if they hit me, it is the tw8ts that pull into the gap in front of you and chop your braking distance right down.

If they pulled into the front end of the gap, thereby threatening their braking distance rather than mine, that would be a lot better.

Then they can drop back slightly and so can I to accommodate them, whilst I forgive the fact that their shortsightedness/rudeness meant they didn’t have time to pull into the huge gap behind me…

But they don’t, it is almost like a punishment pass to a cyclist.

it is the tw8ts that pull into the gap in front of you and chop your braking distance right down.

Yep!

If you leave anything even remotely close to a proper two-second gap then someone will inevitably overtake and slot themselves into it, even if all they have achieved is moving up one place in a long train of traffic that is all moving at the same speed.

molgrips – Member

Re being held up – it makes less difference than it feels like.

especially when you consider that most* journeys are under 5miles, where the gains from speeding are even less (2 or 3 minutes at most).

(*67%)

milky1980 – Member

What’s wrong with people just starting the journey 5-10 minutes earlier to allow for traffic?

Absolutely nothing.
People have the wrong attitude towards driving, and that’s what we need to change in order to improve standards.

Best thing is to put the ETA time up on the satnav, and watch it not change much for all the effort you are putting in to making progress.

Just rely on the dual carriageway/mway sections to make progress, as it really isn’t worth the stress compared to the amount of time you make up and possibly the risks you take (for yourself and other people).

Plus the extra fuel burnt on the overtakes, just save the fuel and put it towards another CD to play in the car…

urnerGuy – Member

Best thing is to put the ETA time up on the satnav, and watch it not change much for all the effort you are putting in to making progress.

Best thing is to keep your eyes on the road. 😉

Just rely on the dual carriageway/mway sections to make progress, as it really isn’t worth the stress compared to the amount of time you make up and possibly the risks you take (for yourself and other people).

Plus the extra fuel burnt on the overtakes, just save the fuel and put it towards another CD to play in the car…

It is possible to overtake without inducing stress, and without taking risks. I’d recommend it.
It’s also possible to overtake without changing speed, and without burning extra fuel.

It is possible to overtake without inducing stress, and without taking risks.

Yes, and we’re not complaining about that. We’re talking about people who are clearly highly stressed about being held up slightly, and then take risks.

This is a damaging attitude for the driver and everone else.

molgrips – Member

We’re talking about people who are clearly highly stressed about being held up slightly, and then take risks.

…in a 30 zone.