Fully prepared to be castigated for the unconsiderate highway-code flouting entitled car driver that I am. Perhaps there is something in mitigation…

A few months ago, we got an invoice from the leasing company for passing our information on to London Borough of Houslow. “Uh oh,” I thought. “What have I done?” A few months pass – nothing. Then this week, I got a penalty charge notice for “38L: Failing to comply with a sign indicating that vehicular traffic must pass to the specified side of the sign.” Couldn’t for the life of me remember what I’d done, and when I saw the picture…there I am driving through the wrong side of this…with no apparent reason for doing so.
https://goo.gl/maps/xPAaK5T8cos9Tprg7

When I showed it to mrs DD, she remembered why; “Don’t you remember the guy on a bike coming down the wrong side of the road?”

I’d been driving along intending to pass the bollard on the left as anyone would, when a cyclist riding on the pavement (on the left of me, coming towards me) decided in his wisdom to leave the pavement and come through on the wrong side of the road. I got a bit of a surprise and, while I probably should have just stopped, I just went round the other side of the bollard as he was steaming through and didn’t seem to care that there was a car coming towards him. I’m kinda “always expect the unexpected with cyclists/pedestrians and give them the benefit of the doubt” – possibly there were other options at the time, including just stopping, but to be honest, I’m a bit hazy as to why I chose the option I did – I’m pretty sure his leaving the pavement was a last second thing. It happened back in April so I’m not sure. Of course, there is no sign of the cyclist in the CCTV stills printed on the PCN. :o)

So, I know I’ve done a naughty. I had another PCN for missing a no-right-turn sign in Wimbledon back in January. Honest mistake, not my locality – I just paid up. No point in arguing that – I missed it, my fault. I might fire off an appeal this time as they say the “may cancel the PCN if there are suitable mitigating circumstances (i.e. if we believe that there is a good enough reason).”

Bugger. With no evidence of said cyclist I’d say you’ve little chance.

Bloody atrocious parking in that photo BTW.

I thought most Hounslow residential roads were 20 limit now leaving plenty of time to stop.
Parking looks quite relaxed there, except for the double yellow.

They will argue that it is your fault because you should have slowed down to expect the unexpected regardless.

Moral of the story … the bureaucratic rules are so rigid there is no flexibility or possibility to win an appeal. Even if you do an emergency swerve to avoid collision you will be guilty as they will take only the photo when you cross the wrong lane.

For this or the same reason you will see what people don’t move aside to let ambulance pass at certain roads.

Appeal but I think the chances of winning is very slim.

Damn cyclists not using the cycle path.

Bloody atrocious parking in that photo BTW.

We use this road every time we visit our friends in W London – the parking is shocking. Pavement parking all the way.

Bugger. With no evidence of said cyclist I’d say you’ve little chance.

My thoughts exactly. Might give it a try all the same. Maybe there’s CCTV from just after the photo’s taken – or maybe it just triggers the camera if a driver does a naughty – I have no idea.

I thought most Hounslow residential roads were 20 limit now leaving plenty of time to stop.

There are so many width and speed restrictions along that road, that it’s hard to get above 20. Normally I just chug slowly up it as you’ll inevitably get a nutter coming the other way who’s going through no matter what. I just let ’em get on with it. From living in Bristol, I’m well used to a 20 limit – not saying I’m without sin, but it’s not something that bothers me.

Like I say, I can’t remember why I went through the wrong side – normally, I’d just stop – I don’t really care what side the bike’s on. I’d rather be delayed than hit a cyclist just because I’m in the right. (Though, in London that’s what a lot of drivers do anyway…). I can only think it was a “Whoa, WTF, Jaysus…he’s coming through…”

Is there a time limit by which they should have issued the PCN? Seems a long time between April and August?

Is there a time limit by which they should have issued the PCN? Seems a long time between April and August?

🙂

That was my first route! But I think from checking, they have 6 months. Bah.

Pay it move on. Life’s too short and in officialdoms eyes you’re wrong.

Pay it move on.

I’m fully prepared to. I’m also happy to spend five minutes writing an appeal which I can do over the web – and hoping they might say “ok then…”* The appeal will freeze the discount period anyway.

*Very much doubt it though.

I’d write an email/quick letter to try and appeal but wouldn’t bother fighting it or taking it further if they reject it.

A few years ago I tried to get a council parking ticket dropped on the basis that it was 8pm and I thought it was free by then as all the other carparks in the area stopped at 6. I sent them about 10 previous parking tickets to show that I really was an honest citizen and made a mistake. They didn’t want to know.

You would have to lie to stand any chance of succeeding IMO. As you say, you had the option of just stopping, but didn’t for whatever reason.

Common sense does not work with bureaucratic rules. Fact.

If there’s no penalty fr contesting it then it’s worth a try, in case the appeal lands on the desk of someone with some empathy or who has had a bad day. Maybe, if you ask very nicely.

Try asking over here.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

Wow – I have nothing to add except I had no idea you could get retrospectively fined for offences that aren’t speeding/parking if not stopped by the police.
If I had that notice I would’ve ignored it, convinced it was some kind of crazy scam.

Double check that the issuing authority has the power to enforce decriminalised offences, most have now, but not all. Check that this part I offence if one they can enforce if so, they probably can.

The image on the PCN is a still from video footage. In your situation, I would request the video footage. If it doesn’t show the cyclist, there’s little you can do. If it does, you’re sorted. If they refuse to supply it, then the question is, why are they refusing you access to video that might well prove your story.

The reason you want around rather than stopping is because the cycling was closing on you. If you’d stopped, then this is still the case, it’s just happening more slowly. By swapping sides, you’ve mitigated the situation entirely.

If you appeal, the local authority will most likely reject it automatically. Of you start an appeal, be prepared to take it to the independent adjudicator.

The reason you want around rather than stopping is because the cycling was closing on you. If you’d stopped, then this is still the case, it’s just happening more slowly. By swapping sides, you’ve mitigated the situation entirely.

Thanks for putting it that way. That’s given me a good basis for my appeal.

I’ll try an appeal – requesting the CCTV footage (more to be awkward than anything else) – but I’m not sure I’d take it any further than that. I’d probably just pay the £65 now and be angry about it. But MY STORY WILL BE HEARD!! 😂

As excuses go its not a bad one. In a similar situation I might well have done the same.

Wow – I have nothing to add except I had no idea you could get retrospectively fined for offences that aren’t speeding/parking if not stopped by the police.
If I had that notice I would’ve ignored it, convinced it was some kind of crazy scam.

This

I mean how do they enforce it. Is it automatic?

I can’t imagine they have “traffic island” cameras in the same way they have bus lane and traffic light cameras. So is someone watching the footage and then fining people – 4 months later – or is done algorithmically?

I can’t imagine they have “traffic island” cameras in the same way they have bus lane, and traffic light cameras. So is someone watching the footage and then fining people – 4 months later – or is done algorithmically?

If you click on my map link in the OP, then, mouse the image upwards, you can see the CCTV camera – there’s a yellow warning square on the pole. Looking at it, it looks similar to a bus-lane camera, but tbh, I’m not sure how it works. Bloody well worked the day I did a naughty. 😀

I didn’t think those arrows were optional. More a ‘must’ than ‘please do’. If a cyclist was heading towards you then moving over to their side of the road where they’re likely (with any sense) to move to, doesn’t sound an optimal strategy. Slowing down/stopping seeming the more obvious action. No idea how lenient they are though.

If a cyclist was heading towards you

From what I’ve checked, you’re correct. They’re not optional. IIRC, the cyclist wasn’t giving me much option – but yes, I probably should have just stopped, but it was one of those things – I was thinking “surely he’s not coming through on the wrong side…surely…really…wtf, he’s coming at me” and at the last second I just went on the other side. I guess the contrary argument is that if I had time to see the other side was clear, I had time to stop. Happy to admit I arsed it up but I’ll appeal it all the same.

It’s always worth an appeal, unless you are a Max Power boy racer type. You have a reason to pass the sign on the wrong side or have an accident

Ask for the full video showing you; from the time you appear to when you leave shot.

If they refuse to supply it,

You have them over a barrel, you can’t withhold evidence because it suits your narrative, it would be instantly thrown out of court

You have a reason to do so, so the offence they claim can’t be true.

The claim appears to true. Surely you need more than a reason, avoiding collision with a cyclist maybe, couldn’t be bothered to wait to go through correctly is less convincing.

Failing to comply with a sign indicating that vehicular traffic must pass to the specified side of the sign

couldn’t be bothered to wait

I realise you only have my word to go on, but I’m really not that kind of driver. I’m not in a hurry or trying “to make progress” – but yeah, I can see they’ll go with that. “You could have stopped, so why didn’t you?” but I dunno, at the time, it was just a last second thing to say, “**** it, he’s coming at me, can’t believe he is, no time to stop, so I’m just going round…” Yeah, I can now see it was maybe the wrong decision but I didn’t make it out of selfishness.

Is the signage compliant from a drivers point of view? That’s sneaky as hell. What exactly is that camera for? Designed to assist with parking issues maybe but making cash from the inevitable. I’d be writing to councillors, MP etc and making data protection request for footage. At least cause them £65 quids worth of work in return!

If it’s just a still photo, how do they know you weren’t Driving backwards on the other side of the road? That would be Ok.

I realise you only have my word to go on, but I’m really not that kind of driver.

I’m sorry, it was not meant to be personal, I do believe you. However, drivers can be seen constantly flouting the Highway Code, then when they get caught they look for the slightest loophole to get away with whatever it may be. Bizarrely for a cycle forum, it appears that cyclists are treated far less sympathetically.

No, I’m with you bro. I’ll happily give way cyclists and pedestrians, no matter what they’re doing – who wants a KSI on his or her conscience anyway? Like I said earlier, when I got caught for missing s no-right-turn sign earlier in the year, I just sucked it up. I’m not looking for a loophole here – just wondering and canvassing as to whether I had any mitigating factors – so I appreciate any input, not looking for everybody to agree with me. So, no worries, none taken etc. 😀

Pay it. Chalk it up & move on. Life is too short.

Is driving the wrong war around a sign such a common issue they need to put a camera up to catch folk? That’s a new one to me, seems like total overkill. What’s next? Full time drones flying about following people?

Is driving the wrong war around a sign such a common issue they need to put a camera up to catch folk?

Judging by the number of VIP’s that overtake me around the wrong side of a traffic island on my commute? Yes, yes it is.

Had exactly the same in Hounslow. Pulled out early along a small road as a lorry was parked on my side at the end of a parking bay and it would have meant a sharp deviation to pull onto the opposite side of the road to go around it. Instead I pulled out early and went on the rhs of the traffic island. A safer manoeuvre. I appealed and was unsuccessful.

So you’ll be paying it. BTW their most profligate camera makes £250k per annum for bus lane infringements. Their second makes almost as much.

EDIT it was the same road. It’s a rat run from the A4 through a residential area.

So you’ll be paying it. BTW their most profligate camera makes £250k per annum for bus lane infringements. Their second makes almost as much.

EDIT it was the same road. It’s a rat run from the A4 through a residential area.

Ha! Snap – might even have been the same camera, eh? Thanks for the post – I reckon that’s the one that’s convinced me to not bother appealing. Bit of a sickener having to lob out £65 when I felt as if I’d done the “right” thing but a cursory lesson nonetheless. Next time the cyclist gets it. 😀

That road has terrible rat running and the vast majority of drivers are very aggressive. I avoid it completely because I’ve never managed to go along there in a car or by bike without an oncoming driver doing something deliberately confrontational.

Mine was at 06:00 taking the car to be serviced. Lorry left overnight on an unsafe position. Showed on the camera, still didn’t get the appeal. The £65 was still a lot less than the main dealer service though. And I could walk to work.

And I thought I might get one for a right turn a few weeks later because the sign saying no right turn right on the traffic light wasn’t illuminated! Was lucky that time.