I don’t think I have the stomach to play hardball and risk CCJs

A CCJ can only go against your credit history if you fail to pay it within 30 days of the judgement. If you pay up no one will be any the wiser.

CCJ’s

Very, very unlikely to go that far though and if you get an actual court summons, just settle pre-court for a discounted fee.

I’ll be honest, I’ve had council parking tickets in the past, I always pay them – like council tax they have all the ammo they need to ruin your day, they’re not subject to usal laws and rules.

Private parking fees? Yeah, nice try, file them in the bin.

The simple fact is that it’s more profitable to send out say 100 ‘fines’ a day, 25% will pay though fear, of the remaining 75% maybe 25% will pay if you keep sending letters, but 50% will never pay unless you take them to court.

They make more money from the 50% (guessing that figure) who pay through fear, it’s not profitable to chase the other 50% as proving liability is a nightmare and Yes I’m aware there have been some court cases to make an example, but they’re very rare.

I’ve had 3 in the last few years, 2 from the Cinema complex in Cardiff Bay, seems I walked into the wrong shop from the wrong part of the car park and one from a local hospital, my wife, who worked there parked in the staff section as is her right, but she took my car to work that day. She told the guy on duty, he said it was fine, they sent us a bill, we explained what happened, they didn’t care – told them to kiss the ring, they said they’d sue, bring it on bitches.

They gave up, pussies.

A couple of years back, I parked in one of the few electric car bays and put a ticket in the window. Never noticed it was an electric car bay only until I found a ticket stuck to the car window – parking in the wrong bay.

Pepipoo had some good advice – took some photos of the bays, took some photos of other bays the council had in the city that were clearly marked unlike this one, pointed out that they had used non-standard signage – and it was over turned.

IHN seems to have parked in the same spot on the same site before me and he says it went to court. That doesn’t fill me with confidence.

As said, this lot seem to know what they are doing, and I did park under the signs.

It’d involve poring through legal documents being my own defence lawyer, which is hugely stressfu

It actually doesnt

They make more money from the 50% (guessing that figure) who pay through fear, it’s not profitable to chase the other 50%

if they never chase then they get a reputation for it and so more people will ignore. My Mrs was chased by Parking Eye, possibly because she’d ignored a PE ticket before (when you could safely ignore them). Anyway they were quite happy to go to court, got a date through, court cancelled and said wait for the Beavis appeal result, we waited, Beavis failed, got a new date, PE were still happy to see us in court

if you get an actual court summons, just settle pre-court for a discounted fee.

yeah, mrs paid up discounted fee before court, discount would probably be similar to the bogus crap they add to the original ticket, like Molgrip’s £60 “admin fee”.

It actually doesnt

Ok.. that’s what it looked like…? What did you actually have to do?

Those people that are happy to wriggle out of parking illegally over minor legal technicalities (or challenge speeding tickets when they know they were speeding because they police havn’t calibrated camera today, etc.). How many are the same ones that don’t like the potential that people are evaluating not invoking Article 50 because there may be legal inconsistencies over whether a referendum has that power.

Moral > legal or the other way round, but not both when it suits you.

These sort of charges should be illegal.

The court ruled that a ‘penalty’ charge is legal and it can / needs to be high enough to provide a deterrent to parking there.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=83803

It’s usually

Appeal to PPC using template letter which will be rejected
Appeal to POPLA using template letter which will be accepted

Literally two letters.

However the fact you ignored the original ticket and they’ve passed it to a debt collector (which is just another desk in whatever portakabin they operate from) makes it more of a hassle.

You will get a lot more threatening letters
They may give up if you ignore them
You may get taken to court

Who is the parking company?

What did you actually have to do to get yours overturned?

Can’t remember exactly but it’s along these lines:

– reply to parking firm (PF) disputing legality of PCN and request a POPLA appeal code
– PF reply saying “Sorry pal, your letter is just a standard template stolen from one of several online forums … you owe us the money … pay up pal” They are also obliged to include a legit POPLA appeal code
– reply to PF countering each of their “claims as to why they have you owing money
– PF will either choose not to respond (as it costs them time and money to take further) in which case you pay nothing, or they will pretty much say the same sh1t again
– raise POPLA appeal online (using code) and list what the PF is lying about

Basically, as said before, plenty of private parking firms behave fraudulently. They threaten people into paying up, hence easy money.

FTR, the PF that I overturned twice, provided me with fake POPLA codes (that had expired 1 year before, hence preventing me from pursuing them). I just contacted a chap at the ombudsman and he said “Yes, that particular firm are known for doing that … I’ve warned them several times and will now do so again .. here’s how to turn that code into a legitimate one .. then go online, raise your appeal and job done.” I did as he said and won both appeals. Paid nothing.

PFs really are a bunch of ****s. I ****ing hate them.

EDIT: get an account on MSE and create a new thread stating the name of the parking firm to see what feedback you get. Also search for them in the “cases won” thread. Only a small number play real hardball all the way and take people to court. Even then, they only win a minority of cases.

People lose mainly when they stray from the correct procedure, eg don’t reply within the time frame specified etc.

Yet again we have some one who made a mistake but doesn’t want to face the effects.
Nothing new there, its the way we live nowdays. Disgusting.
You shouldn’t have parked in the wrong place. You knew that.
Waste of forum space.

The problem is that the consequences are disproportionate

Yet again we have some one who made a mistake but doesn’t want to face the effects.

If you read the thread, the main issue is the disproportionate admin charge. The secondary issue is the client’s obligations towards the consultants it hires.

Maybe read more carefully still and you will see that I eschew the legal route advocated by many because I admit the original mistake and don’t have grounds to dispute the charge.

Maybe you will look like less of a tit that way.

Maybe you will look like less of a tit that way.

Do you ever take time to chill before using this forum…

I don’t think you’ll get that £100 back via expenses 🙂

It’s not looking likely, no 🙂

the problem is that the consequences are disproportionate

The problem is parking were you shouldn’t, the disproportionate fines are just opportunists preying on the careless.

I wasn’t careless, I gambled.

Trouble is that the fine has to be high enough to act as a disincentive to take a chance.Too low and everyone will try it. Too high, and it can be challenged as being unfair. That was one of the court’s points, that it didn’t see the fine’s level as unreasonable.

I wasn’t careless, I gambled

pay up then.

The fine is the fine, it’s on the sign.

If you read again, you’ll see the original complaint is about the ‘admin’ fee.

pay up then.

+1

The fine is the fine, it’s on the sign.
If you read again, you’ll see the original complaint is about the ‘admin’ fee.

Thing is, that it is not a fine. It is a charge, which is inappropriate as such cannot be upheld. As many have said, go to the MSE forum, write two letters and it all goes away. Nothing more to be said on this. You can either choose to do this or nnot.

The fine is the fine, it’s on the sign.

Ooops beaten to it. It’s not a fine, it’s a speculative and exploitative invoice. Pay it if you feel it’s your civic and moral duty but you should ask yourself, did your parking actually inconvenience anyone? Did where you parked loose anyone some money? If so then find out who you’ve actually inconvenienced and perhaps apologize to them directly instead.

You will find that many of these car parking companies are run by nasty and cretinous individuals, the sort of individuals who used to go round clamping and who specialise in scaring the vulnerable. Do you really want to contribute towards supporting this sort of thing?

I would argue it’s in all our civic interests, whether we parked against the rules or not, never to pay these people. It’s the only way we’re ever going to get shot of such a bunch of bullies.

we do this about every 4 weeks. It doesn’t just go away any longer. That used to be sound advice, now it could get you into trouble.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/parking-fines-advicehelp

You will find that many of these car parking companies are run by nasty and cretinous individuals, the sort of individuals who used to go round clamping and who specialise in scaring the vulnerable. Do you really want to contribute towards supporting this sort of thing?

Alternatively – I pay to rent 6 parking spaces for my staff at my business premises. Frequently we cannot use some of them because local residents opt to use them instead of on street parking for which they have permits, or they’re used by shoppers. We write polite notices, but often to no avail, one woman got very abusive about it being a ‘free country’ etc. and when my colleague blocked her in called the police.

We considered getting a PPC to enforce it but at the time it was pointless because people who were prepared to abuse our space also would just rip up the tickets because the PPC’s “are nasty and cretinous individuals, the sort of individuals who used to go round clamping and who specialise in scaring the vulnerable” and have read a website telling them how unfair these fines as disincentives are and how to get out of it.

We’re now considering it again.

So, what gives? Why should I have to expense my staff’s town centre parking on days when they can’t get into our spaces because they’re taken up by nasty cretinous individuals who DGAS?

As many have said, go to the MSE forum, write two letters and it all goes away

That’s not how I read it. IF the company has done x wrong or y wrong and you can get them on this technicality or that technicality then you can push them through such and such a process and blablabla. A lot of ifs.

As above I am with @molgrips on the £60 admin charge which is excessive and disproportionate to work done/required.

theother I thnk you can clamp them no ? Or if you rent the spaces can you ask owner to put in those lockable posts ?

The forums are following the recent ruling?

My thoughts; parking eye- pay it. Anyone else fight it. DONT ignore.

Alternatively – I pay to rent 6 parking spaces for my staff at my business premises. Frequently we cannot use some of them because local residents opt to use them instead of on street parking for which they have permits, or they’re used by shoppers. We write polite notices, but often to no avail, one woman got very abusive about it being a ‘free country’ etc. and when my colleague blocked her in called the police.

We considered getting a PPC to enforce it but at the time it was pointless because people who were prepared to abuse our space also would just rip up the tickets because the PPC’s “are nasty and cretinous individuals, the sort of individuals who used to go round clamping and who specialise in scaring the vulnerable” and have read a website telling them how unfair these fines as disincentives are and how to get out of it.

We’re now considering it again.

So, what gives? Why should I have to expense my staff’s town centre parking on days when they can’t get into our spaces because they’re taken up by nasty cretinous individuals who DGAS?

Nailed it

theother I thnk you can clamp them no ? Or if you rent the spaces can you ask owner to put in those lockable posts ?

I don’t think clamps are legal nowadays. In any case I’m not running a parking firm, I fill my day doing my stuff relevant to my business and I’d contract it out to a firm that will keep my spaces clear and make their money from that – which is where we came in.

We can’t post off, it’s a larger car park that some residents also pay to have space in, and we have frequent deliveries and visitors to us and other businesses. So the only practical option is a card or code controlled barrier at the entrance, and even then it doesn’t deal with the residents who’d have access to the car park and then take our spaces anyway.

Simplest solution is for people to stop behaving like nobs, but that’s asking too much nowadays.

My thoughts; parking eye- pay it.

Why? I appealed against them and won.

When, and on what grounds?

My thoughts; parking eye- pay it.

Why? I’ve got away with 3 of their tickets by filing in the bin!

That’s not how I read it. IF the company has done x wrong or y wrong and you can get them on this technicality or that technicality then you can push them through such and such a process and blablabla. A lot of ifs.

The only real ‘if’ is if £100 is a reasonable amount to charge for the amount of time you parked there, regardless of bays. The over charge is the main reason the charge is overturned. However it is clear that you are reluctant to do this and want some niche response other than the bleeding obvious and effective. Good luck on your adventure.

The only real ‘if’ is if £100 is a reasonable amount to charge for the amount of time you parked there, regardless of bay

Hmm. Interesting.

The charge is clearly displayed on signs all over the place though. Although the small print is pretty small, the signs are very obvious.

the bleeding obvious and effective

I can’t see how it’s that obvious. Conversation will invevitably go like this:

Me: “£100 is too much”
Them: “Then why did you park under the signs that say it costs £100?”
Me: “….”

I can’t see an obvious answer that goes in there? Arguments against overcharging seem to be aimed at the people who pay £2 to park for two hours then the extra 10 minutes costs £100.

Them: “Then why did you park under the signs that say it costs £100?”

Well – yeah. Why did you?

Just pay what they’re asking, chalk it up to experience and enjoy a good night’s sleep.

This comes down (again!!) to the Beavis court ruling.

In the past you used to be able to argue it away because it was, as others have correctly stated, an invoice and not a penalty charge, and they can only invoice you for their losses. so you could argue that their losses were nowhere near that much and get it overturned (you could also argue technicalities too, like wrong signage)

However since it went to court and the judges ruled 6:1 that it was allowable to invoice at that level because there had to be a disincentive to park without paying / overstay, that ‘loophole’ is now closed. You can still argue other technicalities but that aspect is basically done now.

“Applying these principles to Mr Beavis’s case, they decided that whilst the penalty rule was engaged, the £85 charge was not a penalty since ParkingEye had a legitimate interest in charging overstaying motorists which extended beyond the recovery of any loss. The company was managing car parks in the interests of the retail outlets, their customers and the public at large and had a legitimate interest in influencing the conduct of the contracting party which is not satisfied by the mere right to recover damages for breach of contract. ParkingEye could not charge a sum out of all proportion to its interests but there was no reason to suppose that £85 was out of all proportion. There was no suggestion about what an unreasonable charge might be.”

http://www.hardwicke.co.uk/insights/articles/the-law-on-penalties-after-parkingeye-v-beavis

Hence why i’m asking people that have successfully appealed on that basis or ignored letters and it’s gone away…… when did you do this. Because if that was before Beavis (Nov 2015), then it’s basically irrelevant. If it’s after, since the PPC’s got supreme court approval – then it has some relevance but you might have got lucky or in the case of binning letters, it might not have ‘gone away’ and you might be getting a CC summons next (or if you binned that too, a CCJ and a visit from the bailiffs)

I can’t see an obvious answer that goes in there? Arguments against overcharging seem to be aimed at the people who pay £2 to park for two hours then the extra 10 minutes costs £100.

The argument for is that if the penalty was in line with the parking, there’d be no incentive to follow the rules. Pay for an hour, if you stay 3 (and get caught) then just offer to pay for the extra 2; there’s no disincentive not to. So there has to be a disincentive, now all that remains is how big that disincentive has to be to make it work, and on that the court didn’t rule per se but merely said that £85 (in the case of Beavis) was not unreasonable.

If it’s after, since the PPC’s got supreme court approval – then it has some relevance but you might have got lucky or in the case of binning letters, it might not have ‘gone away’ and you might be getting a CC summons next (or if you binned that too, a CCJ and a visit from the bailiffs)

I’ll say it again, regardless of any ruling in 2015 it’s just not financially viable for parking companies to take everyone who bins, ignores or appeals these invoices to court. It costs them more to take someone to court than they’ll ever gain in each individual case. Hence Parking companies are taking just a handful of people to court to prove a point and to get the news out there that ‘they’re playing hardball’ – so pay up or else!

Besides what’s the big deal if you get a court summons anyway? It’s very unlikely to happen but if it does come to this (I mean an actual court summons, not a letter threatening ‘next step, “last chance’ court or similar since many people confuse the two) just come to an out of court arrangement, normally 50% of what the original invoice was. Happy days!

Me: “£100 is too much”
Them: “Then why did you park under the signs that say it costs £100?”
Me: “….”

It’s not a conversation you appeal the charge on the basis that it is too high. The folks that issued it will reject the appeal with notification that you can appeal to POPLA. you do that, with a standard letter. They review the charge and tell you you don’t need to pay it. There is no conversation