may enable them to feed their poor and hungry.

That’s the funniest thing I’ve ever heard, they’ll spend it on arming the police and beating the shit out of the poor.

If you are using the pound and our economy goes, then I hate to tell you this, but you will all be in as deep crap as we will.
Personally I would rather be in a country of 50 million + than in a little country with limited control over my currency (applies with currency union, using the pound or joining the euro)

6 more months of work and I’ve got enough points to get into Canada, the idea is looking pretty attractive now.

Sorry fella, but why would you even wonder about that.
Canada is awesome, I would move there but their biotech industry is all on the Quebec side and I want to live in BC

grahamt1980 – Member
If you are using the pound and our economy goes, then I hate to tell you this, but you will all be in as deep crap as we will…

We’ll have the flexibility to change that, so it will be a hiccup, not a disaster.

I’m particularly keen to know how the markets will react to the “it’s not our debt” stance, and what that will do to Scotland’s cost of borrowing. You know, the borrowing needed to patch up the £15 billion+ hole in Scotland’s budget given that all the oil money is going to be used to create a sovereign wealth fund instead of paying for public services.

This is what I mean about facts – it appears that very little of the debate has been around measureable/forecastable figures (which Scotland can hold Salmond to if he doesn’t deliver)…

And as Epicyclo says, UK economic growth could well fall away (ITEM Club forecast is for lower growth next year than this in any case) – and referencing Tom’s point about RestofUK losing influence – a split could lead us all into outright recession if the markets and foreign investors think UK’s in long term decline as a result.

Worth reading this: some money’s already leaving Scotland in anticipation of a split. For e.g. if there’s a ‘yes’ vote Standard Life and RBS walking away – taking their jobs and their corporation taxes with them… (most likely to London, further increasing inequality across UK).

Scottish Finance, a case of the jitters

Epicyclo.
Fair enough, so the financial markets go belly up, where do you turn?
Own currency, the Euro.
To be honest at the moment the entire financial system is FUBAR, so when one big economy goes, the whole lot will take a major hit.
I hope like hell it doesn’t happen but something nasty will.
For what its worth, I really don’t mind if scotland chose to go their own way, thats your choice.
I would prefer to see scotland stay part of the UK, but you can at least choose. Just hope it works out well for everyone, but short term the only people who will win are the lawyers.

Canada is awesome, I would move there but their biotech industry is all on the Quebec side and I want to live in BC

Aaaand that’s why I might try and PhD in Vancouver, might then be able to get a postdoc there. There are some biotech industry jobs kicking around in vancouver as well.

Awesome plan, go for it.
Vancouver and BC are just amazing.
Would love my company to set up out there.
Sadly no hope of that

Those who forget the lessons of history and doomed to repeat then. From the last time lies and deceit were used to hoodwink the population

Even Hattersley, who so sharply condemned Heath’s double-dealing, has offered his own mea culpa: What we did throughout all those years, all the Europeans, was say, let’s not risk trying to make fundamental changes by telling the whole truth, let’s do it through public relations rather than real proselytising… spin the argument rather than expose the argument. Not only was it wrong for us to deal superficially with what Europe involved, but we’ve paid the price for it ever since… Joining the European Community did involve significant loss of sovereignty but by telling the British people that was not involved, I think the rest of the argument was prejudiced for the next twenty or thirty years.24 At best the pro-Europeans were coy about sovereignty and at worst they were downright deceptive. It would come back to haunt them by contributing to public mistrust and, eventually, outright hostility to further European integration, even where logic suggested that European countries were better off cooperating.

Different context re direction of sovereignty but same means to fool the population. All that is required now is the hand of Murdoch…..oh wait a minute….

Awesome plan, go for it.
Vancouver and BC are just amazing.
Would love my company to set up out there.
Sadly no hope of that

Pretty sure you could find a job there if you looked long and hard enough. I seem to remember the easy one for me would be to go over there and sit their hospital lab tech professional exams as they are in short supply, automatic visa entry with no job offer then. I reckon I could do that for a few years before getting bored whilst I was kicking around looking for more research oriented posts.

Epicyclo.
Fair enough, so the financial markets go belly up, where do you turn?
Own currency, the Euro.
To be honest at the moment the entire financial system is FUBAR, so when one big economy goes, the whole lot will take a major hit…

I’d prefer to see Scotland with its own currency or the Euro.

It’s hard to know what to do if the world economy takes a dive, but regardless of how bad things are, there’s still opportunities. It’s just having the ability to recognise them when they happen. I like to say the opportunity of a lifetime happens every 3 months.

The problem of the ‘what about the facts’ question is, I think, summed up in this by Alex Massie:
Facts vs An Idea

Summary: You can’t beat an idea/dream with facts – fight it with another idea/dream.

Charity begins at home. Once we have sorted out our problems we can send aid to England if you like.

You miss the point like most Yes voters I speak to. The term “home” you refer to can mean many things to different people. It is very subjective.

More disadvantaged and needy dying of starvation.

@epic people aren’t dying of starvation in the UK and nor will they under whatever government we get in 2015

Really? Maybe not starving.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_in_the_United_Kingdom#21st_Century

I’d prefer to see Scotland with its own currency or the Euro.

Euro area currently in worse state than UK and deflation looking increasingly likely…

I’d prefer to see Scotland with its own currency or the Euro.

Euro area currently in worse state than UK and deflation looking increasingly likely…
[/quote]
Shush! Don’t wake him. It looks such a peaceful, happy dream.

Summary: You can’t beat an idea/dream with facts – fight it with another idea/dream.

Is the modern political narrative confirmed to be on Friday night – a flawed philosophy in my view as the Euro project shows. It is an endictment on the modern political process and this is seen a progress that will somehow deliver a better society.

The world of candy floss dreams….

This advice is almost as bad as the advice given to GO about his hair. 😉 is it a rug?

The consequences of voting No are looking pretty bleak.

Coalition of Conservative/UKIP govt in near future. Lead by Boris and Farage, both of whom are keen to strip funding from Scotland.

Out of the EU.

More wars.

More disadvantaged and needy dying of starvation.

etc

If we stay in the Union we have no control over that happening. Better to be in control of our own destiny even if it’s tougher than it should have been.

project feart, go for it!

It’s going to be fun watching the little Englanders boil over as we become resigned to complete mediocrity on their watch

we already are mediocre, Alex already thinks he is going to turn rUK into Belgium

teamhurtmore – Member
Summary: You can’t beat an idea/dream with facts – fight it with another idea/dream.

Is the modern political narrative confirmed to be on Friday night – a flawed philosophy in my view as the Euro project shows. It is an endictment on the modern political process and this is seen a progress that will somehow deliver a better society.

The world of candy floss dreams….

This advice is almost as bad as the advice given to GO about his hair. is it a rug?

This would only be a problem if you didn’t believe you had the facts on your side.
It’s no use being right, but losing?

we already are mediocre, Alex already thinks he is going to turn rUK into Belgium

I wouldn’t say we are mediocre, we’re a top 10 economy that is projected to stay that way. Unless of course, Scotland leaves and we leave the EU.

If that happens, I’d rather move to the **** Philippines as they’ll rank higher than us by the time I’m in my 40s.

Coalition of Conservative/UKIP govt in near future. Lead by Boris and Farage, both of whom are keen to strip funding from Scotland.

Tories won’t need UKIP – Labour without Scottish seats won’t have a chance of getting back into power outside a coalition, Tories will be dominant.

I’m right of centre but I don’t want the Tories to not have to fight for their vote, I want them to prove they’re worthy of it each and every time.

A dominant single party isn’t a healthy democracy IMO… so rest of UK will lose out politically as well as economically…

Tories won’t need UKIP – Labour without Scottish seats won’t have a chance of getting back into power outside a coalition.

Bit of a myth that, I have had the privilege of hanging out in one of the parliamentary bars with friends who are political advisers on a number of occasions. Every time Labour has won a majority, they could have done it without Scotland. It will just bite them if it’s a close run election.

Just think…if we end up with a Tory government for 25 years, Wales will just leave, as will ancient Northumbria. It will be hilarious. All because the Tories hate anyone who isn’t an affluent southerner.

England will descend into a realm of naff houses and retirees watching blackadder on repeat lamenting the downfall of Britain and how it was all the EU’s fault whilst erecting 50 foot fences along the coast to keep brown people from propping the economy up.
WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

If a currency union is entered then I think the bigger issue for the main parties is that it will let UKIP in in a massive way. Labour, Lib Dems and the Conservatives have all said it won’t happen, if they go back on it then the UK elections could end in a bloodbath.

Whimbrel – correct, but that says more about modern politics. McUtopia is being built in a series of lies. And the response from the (apparently US inspired consultants) is merely to respond in kind. I asked a minister and a shadow minister specifically about why do you not directly expose Salmond’s BS on currency, debt , Defence NHS etc ( the list of long) and the answer? We are advised not to.

The narrative is more important that the facts. On that basis, no wonder the polls are slipping. Listening to how the strategic PR teams works makes my somewhat cyclical about where the latest poll was published but that is perhaps more wishful thinking.

10 days away from potentially sleepwalking into chaos – so epic, how have you bought volatility? Might as well make some money out of all this. Need another look at the RBS credit trades among others. Timing for the contrarian call will be key on that one. Easy to catch a falling sword in the ST.

I wouldn’t say we are mediocre, we’re a top 10 economy that is projected to stay that way. .

until Alex turns us into Belgium 😉

What’s wrong with Belgium?

They certainly make better chocolate than we do.

I asked a minister and a shadow minister specifically about why do you not directly expose Salmond’s BS on currency, debt , Defence NHS etc ( the list of long) and the answer? We are advised not to.

Surely they have a better reason than that 😯 I would hope they did but weren’t allowed to tell you…

10 days away from potentially sleepwalking into chaos – so epic

The Economist article about money leaving already, and significant employers planning on leaving is what’s worried me… it shows clear intention.

Of course, if it sends jitters through the markets and through Joe Public, maybe house prices will crash and I can afford to buy something at last 😀

I wonder if there’s a Yes vote and the response of the markets and English and foreign investment is to leave (or announce intention to leave), then maybe all those who voted Yes will ask for another vote so they can annul it).

What’s wrong with Belgium?

plenty that would keep Alex smiling at the chaos as he attempts to turn Scotland into Luxemburg

No – since one of them was lamenting the strategy.

Frankly it seems there has been far too much complacency over the result. The rise of UKIP should have told them that the public will be happy to swallow BS and as Ckeggy found out on TV it is hard to argue against bare faced lies. People would rather be told that eating chocolate everyday and drinking fizzy drinks was good for you.

The Economist article about money leaving already, and significant employers planning on leaving is what’s worried me… it shows clear intention.

And it’s inconceivable that they’re saying that to try to influence the vote?

And it’s inconceivable that they’re saying that to try to influence the vote?

Well, duh…

Is it also inconceivable that they’ll follow through if Scotland gets its independence?

The more information voters have about the Scottish independence referendum debate, the more likely they are to vote yes, according to researchers.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/07/scottish-independence-referendum-research-more-information-likely-vote-yes

Is it also inconceivable that they’ll follow through if Scotland gets its independence?

Nope, absolutely possible – but I’d prefer to live in a country that’s not run for the benefit of big business.

So when are you moving to North Best Korea?

🙄
The naivety would be amusing if it wasn’t so potentially damaging.

Maybe we just all got tired of being patronised.

teamhurtmore – Member
…10 days away from potentially sleepwalking into chaos – so epic, how have you bought volatility? Might as well make some money out of all this…

I’m being chicken – I’m keeping my funds in AUD$ for now, although if I convert it back into £ the increase is nearly enough to get me my next car (but I’ll probably just cut the rust out of my old Transit and waste the rest on bicycles 🙂 )

It’s a bit of a predicament. I’m convinced the current govt will send the economy spiralling downwards, while trying to keep up appearances with lots of fine words. They really need to become more pacifist for purely thrift reasons.

But an independent Scotland has no track record yet. Until the currency question is sorted, no one is really going to know which way to jump. As you say, volatility. 🙂