Ooof…. not looking great for PC Plod. Yes he’d been drinking heavily, but – knocked to the ground, died shortly after from internal bleeding? Not good

Not looking good for plod at all. I wonder if they will actually charge anyone? Poss case for manslaughter?

interesting, how will the met get out of this?

interesting, how will the met get out of this?

dunno, but i bet they will, the slimy scumbags.

Meh, based on previous form they’ll close ranks; one or two will be suspended on full pay and quietly shuffled off to a desk job.
The government will make a fuss, say that they’re backing down on allowing the police all the powers under the sun, then wait a few months to quietly reintroduce rules that mean you can’t photograph police, ask them why they’re stopping you, etc etc

COP – “I told him to move on, he didn’t listen. I gave him a push to encourage him to move forward. He was drunk. He fell over. Not my fault.”

interesting that the 1st autopsy thought it has his heart disease that killed him
incompetence or conspiracy?

The Graun have already raised questions about the original autopsy, its indecent speed and leaking of infomration and the fact that it was carried out by someone who was already considered “a little discredited”, also they were wqarned off from speaking to the fmaily, who have turned round and siad that the Met lied to them, so it does appear that there are quite a lot of coincidences, so no it couldn’t be conspiracy as they obviously far, far too incompetent.

didn’t the police said that they had not come into any contact with him? then they said that they had and had come under attack whilst tried to help him?

70 odd complaints of excessive force received by the IPCC yesterday.

Perhaps someone with some medical knowledge could comment on whether a shove and tumble like that is likely to cause abdominal haemorrhaging or just worsen something already kicking off.

Blair Peach. The man that died with the police radio shaped dint in his head. They got away with it then.

If they can shoot someone in the head for not speaking English and get away with it, shoving someone who dies later should be a doddle for them.

Nothing will change.

atlaz – no medical knowledge but I suppose what his existing condition is – for example if he has an aortic aneurysm an impact like that could rupture it I suppose, as could tripping and falling over a kerb or being in a car crash etc. Without the full facts it’s hard to aportion blame correctly.

I assume from what I’ve heard about his history that he had a history of alcohol mis-use. Depends where the bleeding was, but it could be that he had a gastric bleed due largely to his previous medical history, a situation which may have been aggravated by his push, but also one which could have happened any time.
Let’s not put two and two together and come up with the answer we all want, rather wait and try not to speculate on very little info.

anyone recall “battle of the beanfield”?

police state, incompetant coppers, rotten management (police chiefs)
its just another broken industry like the banking system

hey dudes, WE ARE ALL DOOMED ££$£$£$£$£$£

mt – Member

Blair Peach. The man that died with the police radio shaped dint in his head. They got away with it then.

That was a few years ago. I think post mortem investigations have moved on somewhat since 79.

The original postmortem was always suspect, carried out as it was, by a dodgy pathologist who announced hours after examining the body that the victim had very conveniently died of ‘a heart attack’. The second one took a week to come to a conclusion, and I can’t say that I’m surprised that the conclusion was in fact different.

But before everyone gets carried away and decides that all coppers are ‘slimy scumbags’, it’s perhaps worth considering the negative effect of that sort of attitude. The policing of the G20 protests was a bad day for the British police, and their creditability in the eyes of the public is now considerably lower.

But damning all coppers will only increase the police’s isolation from the communities which they are there to serve. And can also only increase the possibility of the police closing ranks and protecting ‘their own’.

Yes uniformed thugs who attack members of the public who are exercising their lawful right to protest (and in the case of the G20 protesters, for noble and commendable causes) should not be tolerated. And the negative effect of such actions is clear to see. But the enemy is NOT the police. The ‘enemy’ are the politicians who cynically use the police to protect themselves from criticism. And probably the senior police officers who so willingly oblige.

The enemy is the protestors who decide to make a protest violent/riotous too. I agree with your comments though.

GG To me that resonates slightly with the whole “don’t criticize our boys in Iraq, they’re only doing their job you unpatriotic bastard” kind of stance.

Sure sure, all cops aren’t evil but perhaps people are waking up to the fact that a hell of a lot of them are far from cuddly.

a lot of them are far from cuddly.

I, personally, wouldnt want cuddly cops.

Gus makes a reasonable point. When de Menezes was shot, there was a lot of attention placed on the officers who pulled the triggers when, to my mind, the ones who told them he was a dangerous man are the ones that need blaming.

Some senior officers are more than happy to sacrifice junior grades in order to avoid addressing the tougher questions and it’s this attitude that probably guarantees mistakes will keep being made.

Grizzlygus, crikey with you both. Makes me angry people jump to conclusions from what the media portray which IS NOT the full facts. We as the public never know the full facts. Being a copper I can also see the difficulty for the police policing that protest, what a nightmare it must’ve been. I undergo the training to be able to police those demonstrations, get petrol bombed, fight with ridiculous amounts of kit on, run around with a shield .. would like to see some of you try it when you feel outnumbered and see what your reactions are anyway I’m not going to pass judgement or opinion on the G20 as I can see both sides and from my policing I certainly know the media are not potraying it in it’s full light. he police cannot comment on procedure/tactics to allay any fears.

Do not judge all police from one incident that has not even come to a full investigation/conclusion.

To me that resonates slightly with the whole “don’t criticize our boys in Iraq………

Erm, yeah …………… and what’s wrong with that ffs ? 😯

The politicians are responsible for the Iraqi war.

Or do you have another theory ? 😕

Do not judge all police from one incident that has not even come to a full investigation/conclusion

Would it have got past the 1st PM if the public/press hadn’t jumped on it?

Yes 2nd PM would still have gone ahead.

Yes 2nd PM would still have gone ahead.

Why?

Blaming all plod would be wrong. But it obviously goes deeper than the odd “bad apple”. Every time there is a dubious incident the METs immediate statements don’t stand up to scrutiny, and some seem down right lies. We saw this with de Menezes and with Ian Tomlinson. In any normal investigation police only release information as fact when it can be proved to be so. If police rank and file don’t speak out about this disinformation, then they are the enemy of a free and just society.

1st PM would be a normal home office pathologist, IPCC then come aboard o investigate and will automatically conduct their own PM with their own different pathologist.

Bit similar to a murder, 1st PM takes place and then defence have the opportunity to run another PM with their own pathologist if they wish.

If police rank and file don’t speak out about this disinformation, then they are the enemy of a free and just society.

What, you expect ordinary coppers to publicly denounce statements issued by their senior officers.

You don’t expect much from your average copper, do you ? 😯

But the IPCC wouldn’t be involved if the press & public hadn’t ‘jumped to conclusions’

Welcome to the police state

Yeah I wouldn’t be too quick to attack the media on this Munqe-chick. Just look at the Steven Lawrence case as an example of how important and useful intense media interest can be. We have today, a much better police service as a result of the media ‘fuss’ over Steven Lawrence’s death.

One of the reasons why the British police service is undoubtedly one of the best, if not the best, in the world, is precisely because of it’s accountability.

.

The other reason is ’cause they is British 8)

Grizzlygus, best in the world. Maybe the SFO is, nowt else is.

Coffeeking, I’m with you. It’s a shit state of affairs that decent folk have to undergo this sort of treatment from the police. But when there are elements intent on nothing but destruction, it’s always going to happen.

Once real protesters start physically ejecting the violent element from within their own ranks during marches and handing them over to the police then they’ll be able to exercise their legitimate right to peaceful protest. It’s a real shame, but i can’t seee it happening any other way.

and that of course is giving the police the benefit of the doubt on wether they just want to intimidate everyone out of their right to protest.

Who wants to bet that the only change that results from this is a ban on photographing the police?

Echoing GG, the more scrutiny the police come under, the better they will become. Accountability, from the lowest up to the highest, and an impartial application of the law to everyone, police or not will make an already decent service even better.

Conversely, closing ranks, being economical with the truth, blaming others for police shortcomings, and suggesting that the media shouldn’t intervene all contribute to a poorer service, and will increase distrust and probably act to justify more violent protest.

I’ve encountered the TAG in the past, and watched what policemen without numbers got up to; not a glowing advert for any form of public service.

The Police cannot do the job without the trust and backing of the majority of the general public, and episodes like this one, particularly the amateur cack-handed way that the police have acted after the fact, go no small way to reducing that trust..

I am not blaming the media at all, what I’m saying is everyone is making their opinions and decisions based on the media, which as everyone know is never the FULL picture.

The IPCC would ALWAYS have become involved. No matter what may occur whenever there is a death either in Custody or within 24 hours of being “invovled”/meeting with police there will ALWAYS be an IPCC investigation. If I spoke to Joe Bloggs in the street and conducted a drugs search then 8 hours later he died of a heart attack, the IPCC would conduct an investigation due to police involvement, so IPCC involvement has nothing to do with media furore over his death.

I think your faith in the IPCC is stronger than mine.
The media are certainly guilty of extremely poor reporting on many, many things, but so often, that’s all we have to go on. In this case, the intervention of the Guardian seems to have exposed a certain approach and made people sit up and take notice; this should have been done by the senior police officers involved on the day, as soon as it became apparent.

Transparency and openness will make for a better police force and will improve the arena in which they work…

Once real protesters start physically ejecting the violent element from within their own ranks during marches and handing them over to the police then they’ll be able to exercise their legitimate right to peaceful protest.

So you don’t deny that protesters are denied “their legitimate right to peaceful protest” ? 😯

A couple of points….. firstly it’s not up to ‘protesters’ to make arrests. Secondly, in my experience people who turn up to demos looking for trouble always wait for the police act out of order. They won’t lob a bottle or smash a window when everything is peaceful, because they know very well that if they do so, the crowd will turn against them. The police invariably gives them the excuse to have the ruck which they always wanted. Otherwise they go home having done nothing.

Finally, one of the characteristics of a ‘public demo’ is that anyone can turn up. Organisers cannot vet who comes, and who doesn’t (unlike the police who can vet every single one of their officers) So it is up to the police to deal with anyone who doesn’t behave appropriately. After all, that is why protesters pay their taxes for.

BTW sq225917, have you seen the video, or were you at, the Climate Change Camp when it was ‘cleared’ by the police ? If so, you will have seen the police wade into a peaceful protest where the protesters had their hands in the air saying “this is not a riot” Didn’t stop the police hitting them indiscriminately though.

I am not going to comment on my opinions of either the IPCC or the G20 protests and what happened it just concerns me how everyone hears a story from one perspective and they are so anti-police. I doesn’t give me much hope for serving my force and trying to give the public the best service they desire and deserve when people are so anti.

And that is just how the IPCC gets involved the police inform them and they begin their investigation.

Oh well I love my job so I’ll keep plugging away hoping to get things better.