I did offer my own insurance policy, £1 policy, pays out £1 if you are injured and refunds your £1 at the end of the year.

(pp gift of course)

kimbers – Member

it sucks for the teams too…

it’s very possible that i’ve missed something, but…

maybe ‘teh industry’ that seems to love selling us £4k carbon #Enduro bikes, could do a bit more to support* #Enduro races

(*not necessarily cash**, but logistics, PR, Legal, social media, etc. etc. it all needs covering, it all takes time and effort)

(**but i bet that wouldn’t hurt)

Although it’s sad it’s gone, I and everyone I race with had made the decision we weren’t bothering again next year. I’ve done a few each year, and they have seemingly got worse IMO. Coupled with the other points/issues others have mentioned, it just didn’t make sense to spend the money.

The first year we went to Dyfi I still say was one of the best races we did.

Charlie’s series has largely been applauded by everyone who has entered, so I expect a few of us will end up there.

I see Si Paton making some noise about the British Enduro Series, so I fully expect there to be some sort of national series year.

I’ve done a few each year, and they have seemingly got worse IMO

really?

this years series was by far the best one ive done- dyfi this year should be the schnizzle!

isnt charlies series all trail centre stages?

yeah theres a BES facebook page already

will prices be similar to BDS ?

Don’t know, not done any of Charlie’s yet. but then every UKGE I’ve done has mostly used existing trails anyway, apart from the odd scratched in detour.

We shall see what comes of it all. There are plenty of other events out there selling out and doing great to suggest enduro racing in the UK is doing very well, something obviously wasn’t working with the UKGE this year with the numbers down a big chunk.

Let’s see what happens 🙂

Si Paton step forward , British Enduro Series on its way?

Si Paton step forward , British Enduro Series on its way?

https://www.facebook.com/pages/British-Enduro-Series/205684392957855?fref=ts

A BDS round next year costs £95. And you think Enduro is expensive?

i wonder if the three day riding thing is anything to do with the numbers being down
I am a master for example which is probably the biggest cat in enduro and I much prefer pmba racing (one day) as I am at an age where work kids etc makes the commitment of steves races a bit much
All the best for the future though chap

[Quote]I am a master for example which is probably the biggest cat in enduro and I much prefer pmba racing (one day) as I am at an age where work kids etc makes the commitment of steves races a bit much[/quote]

I think this is definitely an issue worldwide – in just about every series, this has been mentioned.

Mainly it was the FF+insurance thing that put me off, but all I want is the more laid back “mates racing” vibe. Wearing or having to carry a FF over some 40km course just didn’t seem right.

Also as stated, multi day events are ok once or twice a year for average joes like me, but a whole series of them is maybe too much time commitment for most?

That’s what happens when you create a racing series for old men…

🙂
The masters are usually faster than the seniors! A lot of last years fast masters are now in elite

I will be sad if nothing replaces it but if we have a new series I will be happy. The whole direction Parr was taking the series seem to be at odds with the origin of UK Enduro racing.

Same here, myself and a few others decided that we wouldnt race it next year. Always raced a few rounds each year since 2012 but only been able to do two this year due to injury.
I was planning to do more laid back events like mini enduro and red kite next year.
I have done a few different series (Irish, Italian, EWS, Tweedlove) and I think its better with no seeding, practice saturday/race sunday with no unofficial practice allowed.

Oy Hels and MC, fancy running a national series?

The 3 day thing really just felt like spreading it further to justify for the cost as much as anything else. Seeding felt the same to me- they could say “2 days racing” instead of “1 day’s racing and 1 day’s practice” but it was effectily not much different. It’s like those music festivals that swell to 3 days to increase the price, then you realise it’s basically the same amount of good bands, spread thinner and you just have to spend an extra day trying not to need a poo.

(aside… Seeding’s crap in enduro though, because of the variation of stages… At inners I seeded badly because seeding was done on a very pedally, untechnical trailcentre stage… Then spent all day passing everyone in front of me because they couldn’t ride the natural or difficult stages- they were just fast at the pedalling. Which was quite fun but if I’d been taking it seriously, it’d have been annoying to lose all that time)

Golden rule of uk enduro- if innerleithen mtb racing didn’t do it in 2011, it’s probably shit 😆

Northwind

The reality is it folded due to lack of riders, caused in the main by the insurance issue. That was a debacle start to finish. When it was announced I scratched out a couple of basic numbers using the overalls from 2014 and it was pretty clear at that time the number of 1 race riders would plummet as a single race went to over £150*, putting the whole series in jeopardy. That happened.

Now we have the interesting option of a BDS clone, but that again risks alienating the one race riders that are the icing on the enduro cake. Without them you can’t fill a race, and if you cant fill a race, you cant run a series long term. Enduro is all about running what you normally ride (to some extent), and so its appealing to a 1 time a year rider, unless you price it the same as a decent hotel at a trail centre in which case kipping in a field with no facilities becomes less appealing. MUCH less appealing.

* The cost needn’t have gone that high, and thats the main issue as to why it was such a balls up. Someone should have thought this through in advance and if insurance was really necessary come up with several options at various prices including an option for a weekend cover PAYG type thing.

Ben insurance could be had at <20 quid

But you are right it was never thought through properly

Nortwind, the 3 day thing worked really well for me it was a great excuse for a long weekend away with your mates and without fridary, practising a 40k loop with 1000+m climbing then racing it all the next day, meant I was less than optimal on Sunday!
While qualifying works really well ime, far more likely to have overtakes/holdups on raceday without it
At the same time those that couldnt do the 3 days were at a disadvantage and I think that put plenty off too.

Ultimately I’m just sad, there’s now no national* series as challenging for me to look forward too

* when I say nation I mean UK, like most of the people in Britain I don’t live in Scotland!

I still say you should all come race at Dyfi in a couple of weeks and give your opinions after!
Actually Ben you should definitely ride this one too 😉

Ben insurance could be had at <20 quid

I know, I insured my whole team for £60, but if the organisers make it hard to establish whether your insurance covers you at £20 then the insurance is £90+ through their ‘preferred’ supplier by default, which is stupid.

I am a master for example which is probably the biggest cat in enduro and I much prefer pmba racing (one day) as I am at an age where work kids etc makes the commitment of steves races a bit much

+1.
It’s been one day stuff for me only since family came along, other than Tweedlove events as it’s only 30 minutes down the road so much less time commitment. Did a few UKGE prior to that, but none since, nor have I had the time to commit to SES either.
Understand it’s the national series so not arguing it should be 1 day only, but even dropping seeding for example might make it more realistic for middle aged folk with commitments- King & Queen I was one of first out for practice early doors then home in time for lunch. Doubt that’s the difference between a whole series succeeding or failing, but seems it might help the average joe who doesn’t live and breathe racing 7 days a week.

The whole usp for enduro is it’s dh for munters to unfit to race xc.Having a series aimed at and based around a handful of elite/wannabe’s instead of “average joe who doesn’t live and breathe racing 7 days a week” was always going to end badly.
I think enduro will be stronger in the uk for the loss of UKGE with more accessible regional events.

Shame about this, best enduro races going IMO, best timing, best format, upto 3 days riding, 6 timed stages and seeding meant that you had clear track for your timed runs and if your paying to race that’s really what its all about….this year the stages were better than ever as well.

I enjoy the Scottish but hate the long queues for a early start time, you should be able to select these when you enter, also the more technical stages can be a bit ‘busy’ due to all abilities and ages mixed in together.

Ard Rock is the benchmark though…superb!

The whole usp for enduro is it’s dh for munters to unfit to race xc

I thought it was aimed at those who find XC tedious beyond words?

i don’t think i’d have been quite as blunt as you Rorschach, but i think you’ve got a point.

The guys and girls and the sharp end of the races are extremely good riders. often they’re people capable of winning Dh races, they’re just looking for something a bit different.

but it seems there aren’t/weren’t enough of those people entering the races. Steve Parr really didn’t seem to want average punters at his races, which is fine, it’s his baby, but here we are.

I dont agree with rorschach at all that the UK will be better off without UKGE and a national series

it means theres no stepping stone to the EWS the way there is with the BDS to WC DH and as pointed out before BDS rounds are more expensive than UKGE

Ultimately though without enough punters it couldnt work, possibly steve didnt look after the weekend warrior types enough, but I think it was that and the insurance and how it was handled that really was the problem

hopefully someone will come in and fill the gap, especially if the UCI get on board with enduro then BC might come back on etc

our national DH series does an excellent job of fostering talent and producing DH world Cup and Champ winners, I think we need that for enduro too.

Have to agree with most comments, think ive raced 7 or 8 in total, Innerleithen in 2012 being the first, and still one of the best races I’ve ever done. Hamsterly being the last, and potentially one of the worst.

Whilst the ukge were never going to get it right for everyone, they sometimes didn’t help themselves with poor communication, such as race entry dates, and the whole insurance debate.

However, I do think the moves for full face helmets were a good idea. I remember riding the Dyfi round last year. Stage 1 had an open track bit nearer the bottom of the stage, properly flat out. I was in a half shell and genuinely would have really hurt myself if I had binned it. This is also where I agree with the insurance part as well. Although maybe they should have increased entry cost and sorted insurance themselves…allowing more one race entries.

Regardless, the series was amazing, and had a great time racing it. I cannot thank the UKGE team enough for their time and effort, and hopefully they will have success with their one off events next year. If the races were shit, they wouldn’t have had 250+ people attending every event.

it means theres no stepping stone to the EWS

Does there need to be?
The great thing about it is that anyone can race.
The PR/communication thing did for UKGE IMHO. Asking for full facers and insurance is fair enough, but the attitude communicating it was very poor (the reasons are now apparent). It took Charlie to step in on most occasions and clean things up.
Then came the attempt to make UKGE “elite”, form a federation and put it at the top of the pile. Why?
From what I could tell, and see; things were going well. For all Steves failings in the business dept; one thing is for sure, he could put on a brilliant event and enduro is worse off without him.

Full faces really do depend on how and what you are racing

Stage 1 had an open track bit nearer the bottom of the stage, properly flat out. I was in a half shell and genuinely would have really hurt myself if I had binned it.

I’ve had XC type races with that sort of feeling 🙂

This is also where I agree with the insurance part as well.

It really depends what the insurance is for… in my last job in the UK when I was racing work sick pay covered any injury and a payout for crashing wouldn’t really achieve much after that.
3 day events are great, but for 5 rounds and the geography of them mean 5-6 days of extra holiday required to take part if you want to do the 3 day version.

I think anyone considering running a national series should probably listen to all the views expressed.

I think this is the perfect time for British enduro to have a real think about what it wants and more importantly what the customer wants. I don’t think it needs to be so heavily driven by EWS ideas as the UK has different requirements.

If UK Enduro wants BC on-board then it really needs to emphasis the XC side more than the DH. And I think that would also help bring in more weekend warrior types, albeit at the expense of annoying some who want super hard DH type courses.

If UK Enduro wants BC on-board then it really needs to emphasis the XC side more than the DH.

But you may as well just race xc then

It’s sufficiently different from DH to make it worthwhile

I was in a half shell and genuinely would have really hurt myself if I had binned it.

Don’t race on the road then, lycra shorts and t-shirt, stock helmets and speeds around 50 mph all done inches from people all around you.

Anyway it’s your health if you are concerned you can always back off.

The other option in future is that if organisers don’t enforce FF then the course design can ensure that stupid speeds are impossible.

So Dragon you want enduro races that are low tech and slow?

That sounds duller than xc !

perhaps you can rely on people making a judgement about a stage themselves?

It’s sufficiently different from DH to make it worthwhile

So Dragon you want enduro races that are low tech and slow?

That sounds duller than xc !

Struggling to see how your version of Enduro is different to DH.

That ‘non-peddaling Enduro’ is basically multi track DH.

kimbers – Member

But you may as well just race xc then

except xc races are won/decided on the climbs.

So Dragon you want enduro races that are low tech and slow?

yes, that’s exactly what he said.

I never said I wanted it to be low tech and slow. I just think if you want Weekend Warrior types and also BC support then keeping on emphasizing how Enduro is super hard and like DH isn’t going to help.

I think this is the main problem no one actually can define Enduro properly. See how it all kicked off as a result of that Stage at the UK round of EWS. The UK needs to define what Enduro is, and that doesn’t have to be what EWS is.

That ‘non-peddaling Enduro’ is basically multi track DH.

you can still have pedally bits on a technical stage, not to mention the 30-40km to get round the course, being fresh after a transition is really important.

the great thing about enduro stages is that you can mix the fast flowing, pedally stuff with harder techier stuff, thats what makes it so much fun

when everyone was bitching about stage 6 being too long at EWS Tweedlove this year I thought it was a good tough challenge, worthy of a world class event

ahwiles – Member

except xc races are won/decided on the climbs.

Guess you didn’t watch world champs then?

nope, i was of course generalising, but you knew that.

what’s a typical xc race lap? – 8k(ish)? 30mins(ish)? compare the time spent climbing against the time spent descending, and you’ll get the point if you want to.

(hint) the point is this: Enduro racing, and Xc racing, are different things.

even an easy enduro race, is different from xc racing, perhaps even more so…