More constructive criticism. Check your copy, there are too many mistakes – spelling and grammar. It does not look professional.

Nice idea about bringing old bikes back to life – never a bad thing IMO.

It is one thing causing a stir to get noticed, but acting like a petulant child doesn’t scream out “I’m a good and reliable person to drop several hundred quid to”.

+1

I liked the seatclamp. And the dropouts are at least interesting. The rest of the bike I didn’t like, there’s just nothing to it that made me think that’s neat/interesting/better than anyone else. Even the geometry isn’t far off a 456evo.

But as most people buy a custom bike for esoteric reasons, I don’t think they’d want to be associated with your attitude, not when there’s already a crowded marketplace (and a scrapheap of those that got left by the wayside) of guys in sheds/workshops turning out cool looking frames.

1.8kg = 4 pounds for a steel frame? Sounds good to me.

CEN tested yet?

Not the kind of frame I’d be interested in, but I was happy to see you trying something different and I was prepared to give some useful feedback. Since your flounce the best advice I can give is for you to apologise and we can try this all over again.

Maybe some potential customers will love you for it and it was all deliberate, but it’s a type of marketing that’s a bit alien to me. Remember that whilst I might not want a HT with 120mm forks and a 64 degree head angle, I might know someone who does. Word of mouth can make or break a business and at the moment you’re ostracising too many people.

Oh why oh why do people feel the need to spout negitive thoughts out into internet land. For those people you sound like a bunch a trail centre gay boys. You wouldn’t know a mountain bike if it bit your bollocks off.

Seriously, do you know how to make and keep friends?

I like it. It has the kind of geo that i like in a HT with a bit of extra stand over. Not the best looking bike, but i bet it rides good (which is the important bit). Call me some rude names and i’ll take the lot 😀 Good luck with it.

Cheers for all the constructive replys!
Oh why oh why do people feel the need to spout negitive thoughts out into internet land. For those people you sound like a bunch a trail centre gay boys. You wouldn’t know a mountain bike if it bit your bollocks off.

Cheers again for all the ‘constructive’ replys!

Up your arse to the rest!

Nice. “trail center gay boys” Are you 12?!?
You may have been better off using a less childish term.
Hopefully lots of people see your response and you lose any potential business – as you so richly deserve.

Have a lovely day!

Oh why oh why do people feel the need to spout negitive thoughts out into internet land. For those people you sound like a bunch a trail centre gay boys

you can count me out too if you think that sort of thing is clever

is this going how you thought it would?

is this going how you thought it would?

I’m guessing it isn’t.

I’ve had some frame alteration work done by Dan. You’ll struggle to find someone who’s as enthusiastic about bikes. When I spoke to him a few months back he was really excited about putting this frame together, so it is good to see it done.

I’m expecting/hoping that his comments were tongue in cheek, but regardless are misplaced. 🙁

OP, I think the best thing you could do to further your business is to ask someone else to do your pr and marketing for you. You are really coming across like a petulant spoiled child with your comments. You asked for feedback and got it. If you just wanted good feedback then just say so. Maybe something like :

Hi, we’ve just started building bikes and would like people to spend their hard earned money on them. Please note however we are only interested in feedback which strokes our egos. If you have anything negative to say the we will ignore you and probably swear at you. But give us your cash anyway as we have bills to pay and a massive sense of entitlement as we manufacture in the UK.

^^^

Ooooooof!

Right in the solar plexus.

That’s what happens when you wind people up with little or no provocation.

Frame looks like it might be interesting but the images are poor/amateur, high quality images help sell products.

Very interesting. Not into that seat clamp thing though really think a normal clamp at the top of the tube would be better, both for security and I’d expect for water ingress due to the top not being sealed tight.
That’s about it really it’s all down to how it rides, it’s a prototype so can’t comment on finish etc

Good luck to you hope to see a few out there soon!

Btw. I don’t care how nice or not your website is , it does the job.
Swearing? …. I don’t give one.
Attitude? ….apparently you walked in with your fly undone and upset the ladies…no bother.

Yeah so fair play. Good luck.

wwaswas – Member
Well I quite liked it and what you’re doing with the business.
but following that last post I wouldn’t buy one, sorry.

Which Dragon are you? 😳

A wise man once told that there 6 billion people in this world it doesn’t matter if you piss half of them off.
If you fall into the 3 billion i manage to piss off, oh well. I,ll not worry. Lifes to short to tally banter with fools. Also if your easily offend by me you wouldn’t be one of customers once i,ll not worry.
Maybe it would be different if i was cool like say cotic.
It amazing how angry many of you get.
I couldn,t give a shit if thinks are spelt wrong or if you think my web site is shit. Ask yourself when was the last time you put your southern soft bollocks on the line for something you love.
Oh and thanks to those souls who have been kind and said nice things.
I,m going to cry myself to sleep. Mega forum lolz

Who are you calling Southern?

It’s an interesting marketing strategy, certainly. FWIW, the frame looks interesting, and I’m not all that fussed about the pictures – it’s a prototype after all, my framebuilding pics are usually done on a phone too. But is it really a good idea to insult everyone and then only deal with the people who don’t mind?

All pr is good pr. No matter what people think. Oh if anyone else would like to tell me how to run my business please feel free. It gives me amusement. Better still come to the workshop and tell me. It raining and the trails are muddy we need a good laugh.

Bencooper, good man!
I don,t go round swearing at ever tom dick and harry untill someone doesn,t care. But why should i stand for people,s shit?
It,s like if you had a stall out on a street some where selling, lets say jeans and someone who you have never meet comes up and says what your selling is all shit and your doing it all wrong, would you not have all the right in the world to turn around and tell to jam it up his or hers respective arses?
or
Am i wrong?
Should i bow down take the shit?
Hey **** it! It,s just a bit of fun come on guys we all love bikes right?
Well gee I love bikes too!

tymbian – Member

Cant get my head around a 64 deg. HA with 120mm forks.

Makes absolute sense to me… Pretty much every slack hardtail combines it with long forks, which does work in some ways but obviously everything steepens up when you compress the forks and the more fork, the more it steepens. Not enough companies doing shorter travel, proper head angle bikes, so this is cool.

But no, not all PR is good PR. And your website genuinely does need fixed.

Most importantly- you’re a custom framebuilder, do you have an epic beard? BTR are letting the side down.

…..
See?

Smuggest/most patronising post of the year, you cock 😆

Northwind,
cheers. I made sense in our heads too.
One day i,ll have a shiny website with added sparkles.
But 99% of you had never heard of us! Well you have now and if only 5% agree with me that’s not a bad thing. In marketing terms that’s not bang on.

You asked for feedback and advice and you got it. Did you honestly expect it all to be good? I won’t be spending any money with you, but I’m at least enjoying your blind optimism that your marketing “strategy” will work. Maybe you’re onto something. Maybe

Ps I’m not southern, not gay and was riding mountain bikes long before trail centres existed. How are you going to insult my demographic? Tip. I don’t have an Audi or an Orange 5 either, but feel free to jump to any other stereotypes. One stereotype that might have helped your business is more money then sense.

Sounds like the OP has taken interpersonal skill training from the owners of certain other Sheffield based companies.
Rubbish pictures, ok bike, but if you think you can upset customers so casually then you are much mistaken.

Ps I’m not southern, not gay and was riding mountain bikes long before trail centres existed. How are you going to insult my demographic? Tip. I don’t have an Audi or an Orange 5 either, but feel free to jump to any other stereotypes. One stereotype that might have helped your business is more money then sense.

😀

Maybe to he OP needs to work out his target market, and then stop offending it.

The frame is interesting – I get the idea of the geometry (although will wait for the verdict on how it rides), and the 142×12/tapered HT/ seat clamp are all decent touches. Not convinced on the look though. Maybe it’s just the choice of colour but it looks… Kinda mincey.

The attitude is terrible though. If I had a problem with a frame I bought, it’s hard to imagine getting any support from this guy. I imagine I would get laughed at for being a southern (I’m not) mincing trail centre (rarely) flouncer (guilty).

Well I was going to spend some cash with these guys but I’m thinking that it’s going to be more hassle than its worth now so I’ll probably end up going with one of the other 3 builders in Sheffield.

It,s like if you had a stall out on a street some where selling, lets say jeans and someone who you have never meet comes up and says what your selling is all shit and your doing it all wrong, would you not have all the right in the world to turn around and tell to jam it up his or hers respective arses?

But that’s not what happened, is it?

What you did was more like going up to a bunch of strangers in the pub, showing them your jeans and then getting annoyed when some of them tell you to go away.

If you ask for opinions on the Internet, you’ll always get some answers you don’t like. But remember that about 20 times as many people read forums than respond to them.

Apostrophe. Please? All those commas hurt my eyes more than the rubbish photos of your bike do.

Until the flounce all the criticism seemed to be constructive to me.
Since the flounce, suck my southern trail centre gay boy balls.

Top reading matter this ! 😀
Haven’t seen such blind optimism in a poor decision in a long time..
I’m out !
Oh, and I’m from down south so I suppose it would never have worked.
Check out the apostrophes !

Has Superstar started making frames?w

I’m one of those at some point wanting a custom frame just for me. After seeing those replies there is no chance you would get my business. I wouldn’t even bother phoning the shop to see whether your internet persona is the opposite of your real life one. And surely anyone looking for a frame builder will use the might of google to check the options and bingo, up this thread pops. The same will happen for 18 bikes, ^^^ Bencooper if you’re going for uber niche, curtis etc along with a whole load of positive comments. Is that prospective customer going to sit there and think, yes, I’m going to go with the stroppy twunt or the guys that use their free time to help people out and are generally well thought of?

Have a look at engin cycles on Facebook and website as an example of how to conduct your online business. From a forum perspective I’d imagine there are few better than Bencooper.

Are we allowed to swear now?

Brilliant thread, Hob nobs ready

Also:

The wall needs repointing desperately

WTF is wrong with your lawn!

The aftersales customer service must be amazing!

Hi, this is your female opinion of it all.

You asked for opinions on a public forum. You were always going to get shit off of some pathetic no hoper that is probably jealous of your ability to build a bike and spends their time on here to get a rise from people as they have no real friends. But there are some valid opinions whether you like it or not, suck it up!

I like the bike, it would be good to hear more reviews of what it rides like. The colour is awesome and the seat post thing is nice and neat. Your attitude is appalling though and not approachable for the more sensitive of us or good if people have no idea about what they are doing and looking for some friendly help!

Do you have an application form for potential customers so you can reject the following?

Southerners?
Gays?
Newbies?
Trail center riders?

There is a big difference between “pissing” people off and insulting people. You can piss off a customer and keep them if the reason is over differing opinions etc, of which most of the initial debate seems to be caused by. You are not going to gain or keep customers by actively discouraging them by personally insulting them.

You have isolated groups and the basic message is “if you ride trail centers don’t come here!” .

Is your business only for your elite clique of what you consider serious mountain bikers? I ride trail centers, shall I not bother contacting you?

Learn to ignore the pillocks who are only on here to cause grief and sort it out!

Apostrophe. Please? All those commas hurt my eyes more than the rubbish photos of your bike do.

This. A thousand times this if you EVER intend to communicate with a customer in writing.

You are Octoboy, where do claim my baking soda powered plastic submarine?

You were always going to get shit off of some pathetic no hoper that is probably jealous of your ability to build a bike

Seriously you think this happens in the world? There are guys and gals on here that cross a very broad demographic from all walks of life and professions ,It’s very unlikely many of them think building a bike is anything to aspire to

You were always going to get some pathetic no hoper that spends their time on here to get a rise from people

A more accurate statement! See I kind of joined in.

This is excellent.

I’m not currently looking for a custom made HT. But if I ever do, I will seek out this thread to remind myself who this is to ensure I do not spend any money with this tool.

I like steel, I like niche, I like Yorkshire, and I am in the market for a new build project.

But:

you sound like a bunch [of] gay boys.

That ugly remark has guaranteed that I will never, ever support your business.

Several of my neighbours are gay, one of my riding buddies is gay, and I would rather be out on the road or trail with them than with an unreconstructed bigot such as you.

Not everyone likes the same thing, so you’re always going to get negative comments…especially in the internet so you need to be able to rise above it. Insulting people won’t help and you’ll just end up starting your own witch hunt. I’d say quit digging!

Personally it’s not my cup of tea. I’m not sure about the top tube / seat tube / seat stays interface. I understand why you’ve done it. Standing out in a very crowded hardcore hardtail market will be difficult. I’m guessing that it’ll descend pretty well though. Given the crowded nature of the market place alienating people this early isn’t the best idea.

What I will say though is good on you for giving it a whirl. Are you planning in getting it under riders or I to the likes of Dirt?

Perhaps the OP has indeed worked out his target market, he’s on other forums with a different demographic to stw (check the urban dictionary) and he’s endearing himself to his target market by roughing up the stw sensibilities and linking to it!

I’m warming to the OP, I think he’d be a good laugh, especially whilst out on the pop, but there again I’m a northerner living in the south (Sheffield). Might have to pop in.

Hmmm…

hur hur hur you sound like a bunch [of] gay boys

<Tries hard to think of a worse night out>

<Fails>