Job aside as I don’t know what to suggest or anything there. Encourage him to make a blog reviewing the games that he plays and apply for positions with gaming websites writing reviews, I doubt it pays but he’ll at least have something relevant on his CV if he manages to get a position. Downside is that if he’s successful he’ll probably get sent free games to review which probably won’t help the whole job situation.

buy him a bong

Has he ever done any work for money? Cleaned your car? Cut the grass? Paper round? Saturday job?

everything from design through to coding and development

Again, it’s difficult to judge from so little information, but this sounds like the kind of degree that won’t really help getting a job in the industry as it’s too broad, and competition is so fierce.

I can only speak from the programming point of view, but the best graduates I’ve interviewed are always the ones with the comp sci / software engineering degrees. The exceptional ones are the ones who have also worked on games in their spare time.

I’ve interviewed a few applicants with generic games tech degrees, and none of them have got past the initial technical tests.

Not to dismiss your son’s achievements, but if he wants to work in the games industry then he’s at the stage now where it would be a very good idea to decide which discipline (programming? art? design? audio?), and pick a specialist degree that will give him a solid professional skill, and one that can be used outside the games industry as well.

Never even had a paper round !
and @ al , we have told him to be more specific ….. hes more into the programming side and so we are pushing him towards that

Talking / dreaming about what an 18 yr old wants to do with their life is pointless if they have no work ethic. Too many of today’s youth think the world owes them a living.

As an employer I’ll give more opportunities to the people with the best work ethic and the most motivation. Qualifications come second.

stumpy……just read thru this.
sorry if it offends, but you lad needs a good kick up the backside, seriously.
my son started work with me on the monday after leaving school at 16
he has cycled to work everyday with me up until 2 weeks ago, he is now 21.
he leaves us next sunday to start life in the armed forces.
some young lads are proper upright proud citizens.

Talking / dreaming about what an 18 yr old wants to do with their life is pointless if they have no work ethic.

what a load of bollocks..

there’s many folk who work to live instead of living to work.. and many who love what they do, with the added bonus that they earn money for doing it..

chuff off Alf Garnet

@ Yunki Being able to do what you love for a job and work to live is not something everyone will have the opportunity to achieve. Most people who do, will be very motivated individuals that have worked hard to create their reality.

Ton , not offended at all ….cus its what i was tempted to do if im honest 😀

errr, how does he pay for his beer and nights out?

fair enough chipsngravy.. sorry for being a bit of a knob.. I think I have some sand in my vagina.. 😳

Its maybe to late now, but I guess you’ve made it to easy for him?

I got a job when I was 14 because I wanted a new bike and my mum couldnt/wouldnt buy me one.

Stumpy – I’m no expert on the sector by any means but studied computing science at A level a long time ago and have a few friends in the sector and can say this:

1) Academia is about five years behind the industry.

The games tech degrees are designed to give a broad understanding of the technology and are designed to allow graduates to join small companies of 4-5 people where programmers are expected to be a jack of all trades. Look what has happened in the last few years – software houses are consolidating into fewer, bigger businesses. A lot of the profit is also disappearing into publishing houses as this happens. Many games developers are struggling consequently.

As a result, competition for jobs is extremely fierce and roles are increasingly specific. Typically where a graduate would have four or five skill sets to deploy in this sector, there are now 20 or so specialists in each of these areas. i.e. Generic degrees are not enough. Sadly nothing has changed – my computing science A level was build around programming in BASIC. (Not even Visual BASIC) In 1996! They were considering teaching C+ from 1997 onwards. Subsequently I would always regard a properly geeky programming/computing science degree and real world experience as more valuable than a generic degree and intimate knowledge of a lot of games.

2) Does he know that it will not involve playing computer games? It is a 50+ hour a week life of not playing games. Games Technology is no more about playing games than mechanical engineering is about riding bikes all day.

He may want to be a games tester but so to about a million other 18 years olds.

3) Have an insurance plan. I studied a business degree (mistake #1) and due to my obsessive love of cars had my heart set on a career in the automotive industry (mistake #2). Fortunately I retained a love of science despite doing an arts degree.

I left the automotive sector for the cynical, joyless, unprofessional pile of bullshit it turned out to me (worked in 4 roles for differing ‘blue-chip’ importers, manufacturer and dealer network). Later found my calling in the chemical industry of all places.

Whilst at 18 we advise people to be very specific in their choices, a broad spectrum of subjects are needed in life. If his skills are mathematical and scientific, then he will have choices. In many cases, the degree subject is actually not that important so much as getting a good standard pass and having a personality. However for an in demand industry like game developing, then it really is a ‘cream of the crop’ situation.

Bit of an incoherent rant but hopefully some food for thought for the lad. I have a regular intake of interns at work and if I can get through to a few of them in a positive way & encourage kids to look at where their skills really lie, then I’ve achieved something.

@yunki no problem.

Cheers fizz .. plenty to be going on with ….. ill have another chat with him 🙂

I don’t think that it’s your son that has the problem, but you. Did your parents force you to do something you didn’t want to?

I was never expected to ‘get a job’ while I was at school/college, and even once working I always knew that I could get help if needed – but never had to. My Grandma gave me the deposit for my first house, as she had her children and all the grandchildren.

I’ve now three sons; one lives with us and the two from my ex-wife are supported (to a lessor/greater degree) – my middle son (at 17) is doing an apprenticeship, he earns £100 per week but is based away, so we pay his rent. My eldest is at college, and we still help him – as does his mum.

Lately we’ve inherited my parents place, they’re not dead. Its just too much for them now so we’ve moved in and they live about 50 yds away.

None of us are loaded, and the kids know that money is tight, so they understand its value – but there are no pockets in a shrould…

So if you want to maintain a good relationship then support him as best you can even if you’d do it different, otherwise…

Friday,sat/sun …. all he does is sit on his pc and game .. all weekend long !! ….. we are getting really near the end of our tether with him now …… I’ve just cancelled his phone contract as I was paying that and we don’t give him any money for anything ….. only thing we pay for is his bus pass for college ….. anyone else have a teenager that’s a pain , and what would you do with him !! …

So obviously he is getting money from somewhere, or sooner rather than later will reach that point where he neds money, for a girlfreind, meals or takeaways, etc etc.

You just need to talk to him as a freind and dad,and explain about money and value of money etc, its hard .

My parents were fantastic loving parents but they brought me up with the idea that I had to be able to pay my own way by the time I turned 18 , gave me a work ethic that I value but it shafted me abit as well because I didn’t have the freedom to choose a career .

@ br …. sorry mate , its not me ….. if he doesnt wake up and smell the coffee soon , he`ll be in trouble in the real world ! …… and yep you sound loaded … id love to help my kids out more but cant stretch to it !
@ project ….. hes ace at making a tenner last as he doesnt go out ever apart from college !…

@ br …. sorry mate , its not me ….. if he doesnt wake up and smell the coffee soon , he`ll be in trouble in the real world ! …… and yep you sound loaded … id love to help my kids out more but cant stretch to it !

Yep, I’ve a 12 y/o car – definately ‘loaded’…

He’s 18 FFS, what were you doing at his age – or is that part of the problem?

@ br … what was i doing at 18 ? …. been working since the day i left school at 16 ! .. and still are !

See my point above stumpy are you sure you aren’t saying “it was hard for me so no reason you should have it easy” it’s more or less what my folks did. Feel bad saying it but it was a bit short sighted

been working since the day i left school at 16 ! .. and still are !

Bradley Hardacre, come on down! 🙄

@ nonk … its not about that, its not like we want any money from him , just he needs to wake up a little an try and get some some money sorted for uni … thats it ! ….. plain and simple …. otherwise how the hell will he survive ? …

edit : … maybe im wrong to want my son to have a bit of work ethic and understand that money doesn’t come from mommy and daddy all the time !! .. nothing in this life is free …. unless ur a foreigner ! 🙂

Bradley Hardacre, come on down!

and he is ???

I hear ya
We get teenagers in our place for weekend work on a fairly high turnover and some of them spend the whole of the time listening to an iPod and watching the clock. It does seem like they have got an awfull long way to come back from before they are going to get anywhere
Good luck

Give the lad a break. Not everyone is motivated enough by money to just get out and get a job. Christ he’s going to have plenty of years ahead of him when he has to be chained to a desk or whatever having to earn money. Tell him you’re not paying for anything other than the basics (if that is all you can afford to do). If he wants new games etc he’ll either try and get a job or go without. Tell him straight and leave it at that. Don’t keep nagging him and drive a wedge between you.

Never even had a paper round !

Reckon you’ve missed the boat on the work front then. I remember having summer jobs from the age of 13 right through college and uni. Delivering Yellow Pages (happy days!), shelf-stacking, everything. My parents wouldn’t have tolerated anything less, though TBF they did find some of the jobs for me and gave me ultimatums. Didn’t like it at the time but I’m immensely grateful to them now for instilling that work ethic in me. It’s stood me in good stead.
One thing I would do is check where the last few years’ of graduates from the games course have ended up working…. The debts incurred by students these days mean that mistakes can be very expensive.

Couldn’t be bothered reading the whole thread, cos I’m lazy too 🙄 but really…. back off of him. He’s 18 and you sound like a militant father trying to drill into him the attitude that you think he will need to be successful. He has an idea of what he wants due to the interests he has, ie gaming/I.T. What you are asking him to do is drop his interests and focus on the ‘hard reality’ of the world, ie money money money. Yeh he is only doing what he needs to get by at the moment and that will change as his situation changes which is imminent with him going to uni. I suggest you support him and what he wants to do for the remaining year or so of your full time parenting and don’t push for drastic changes in him at this moment while he is enjoying the last of the safe support of the home environment. Back off. Try to stop seeing it as him taking advantage of you and let him explore his interests without forcing him out into a pointless job excercise for your personal satisfaction.
[/rant]

won’t he just get a chunky loan at Uni then pay it off when his salary his high enough? At 18 got to be left to make his own decisions really.

My experience. I’ve worked for over 8 years as a computational chemist before that I did a PhD in computational chemistry if I had got at least a 2:1 in my degree I would have been stuck. Obviously there are alot of different variables.

A-levels didnt work reasonable results.
1st year uni didnt work 2:1 / 1 st border line 0% counted though !
2nd year uni worked 8 hours + 6 hours (Sun) at WH Smiths (to do so had to miss tutorials on Tuesday) very low end 2:2 (might even have been a 3rd) 30% to final degree
3rd year uni high end 2:1 60 %
Total mark just scrapped through on a 2:1 just just just.

The extra couple of thousand I managed to earn really would nt have mattered a jot if I had nt of got a 2:1 I would nt have been able to do PhD and I’d have been screwed working in Comp Chem sector with out a phD I now realise.

Admittedly I could have cut down on socialising at uni but frankly my social skills probably needed working on more than my chemistry and definitely more than my work ethic which I have never found to be a problem in working life at all. Even though I didnt get my first job till a month or two before I was 20 and then quit a year later to concentrate on studying in fact my mum was keen I quit it after the massive deterioration in my grades.

jekkyl – Member

After my experiences with uni I think uni’s only right for proper professions like Dr, lawyer, accountant etc or if there is a clear career path or a very specific degree which will lead to a very specific job eg trading standards officer. Otherwise I’d be worried he’ll be wasting time & money & end up no better than when he started. For a lot of people, myself included uni is just a way to shirk having to get a job for a few years.
I disagree with this, I think that only applies to students with a certain kind of attitude. I’m currently a student and will have finished my first year in a couple of months…I can’t believe the contacts I’ve already made and the doors it’s already starting to open.

I did not agree when i was at Uni either but thankfully I did not incur huge debts either

outside of those who went into teaching and those who did a vocational degree I dont know anyone who needs their degree for their job. Given the % increase in graduates and the debt levels incurred I can see little point getting a non vocational degree these days unless you want to be an academic or you are sure of a first – perhaps do something cheaper like OU?
Mates who did trades probably earn more on averagee than those of us with degrees but they also work much harder

Havent read all the above so someone might have said this, but have you considered he may be seriously ill?

Read a bit from the first page and what I picked up was:

– He has limited social life – which may be why he is at the computer all the time, to escape from isolation and lonliness and feeling he is without worth to people, even his family. To add to this you take away any money to do things with, so you punish him and show how disappointing he is as a person and take away access to peer social support.

– You row with him all the time. Do you take any time out to spend constructive time with him, ie not rowing, maybe just going for a walk, sharing a bike ride, asking him what his life is like for him, not what his life is like for you? Does he seem happy ever? Is he acting that he is OK when he is really not?

– He may be scared of life – he has chosen a very very competitive field, everyone knows unemployment is high and that kids of the future have little chance of anything but debt and renting – maybe he feels so defeated or afraid he thinks why bother at all – or maybe he is so depressed he cannot do anything except sit there, which is how depressed people can get.

– If he feels depressed or ill, could he trust you to help or chat with him if you just get at him all the time. You dont sound anything but hostile and you have, in the bit I read, said nothing about how he feels about this situation, do you know? Do you listen?

– If he is seriously depressed you need to help him. People literally die from it, suicide etc. Don’t just brush it aside, think seriously about this possibility. Better to worry needlessly and show him you care than go home one day and find him dead.

If he does well at college he already has an ok work ethic. I’d be much more concerned with his choice of degree. If you want to encourage him to do anything outside of college it should be to make some simple games – e.g. mods, iPhone apps. If he finds out coding isn’t as much fun as gaming he might rethink his uni choice before its too late

@ midnighthour .. ?? ….. totally barking up the wrong tree mate 😯
we do spend time together and only row over this ….. hes not depressed but thanks for your views !!

Stop stressing OP. Should he do a meaningless stint in the mines before Sept? Hes going to Uni isnt he? Hes hardly smoking weed with no plans.

Chill.

most normal 18 year old lads are like this are they not?

take him on a tour of the worst estate you can think of and tell him working/studying may be dull, but not quite as bad as living there, which is what he’ll be doing if he doesn’t pull his finger out.

AL200:

Very hard to judge what kind of degree it is from the phrase ‘games tech’, but if he really wants a job programming games, he’d be much better advised to do a software engineering or computer science degree. Far more rigorous, and gives a much deeper understanding of computers and programming (and prepares you for jobs in *any* industry, not just games). If he really wants to do games, he can write them in his spare time – it’s what the vast majority of the best graduates that we interview have done.

This is very good advice in my experience. I work in the art side of games and generally we set far higher value on candidates with a Fine art / architecture / industrial design background than those with a “games degree”.

Also there really aren’t very many jobs in this industry compared to the number of graduates, so you need to really stand out above the competition if you want to be hired. I’m pretty sure that the graduate programmers we would be looking at in 3 or 4 years time (ie: the current 18 year olds) are already working their butts off on some personal coding projects in their spare time right now…