Wow, what a disgusting thought. Well done.

Thanks lifer. I do try.

Carlton Reid really is doing a fantastic job of destroying a lot of the myths, looks like a massive uphill struggle a lot of the time.
Tweets by carltonreid

Right, hands up everyone who thinks countering “You don’t pay road tax” with “Actually nobody does it was abolished in year X” is effective in the slightest? I think it just pissed people off more, it makes you look like a smartarse but most importantly it doesn’t engage the actual point, it just throws a bit of pedantry at it. .gov website uses the term road tax, and it’s perfectly clear what people actually mean. And while you’re bleating about VED, you’re not talking about “please don’t knock us off”

Take it back to the root- if someone says “You don’t even pay Vehicle Excise Duty on that bicycle” would you then say “Good point, and factually accurate” or would you still say “why does that matter?”

It’s a terrible argument cul-de-sac that people don’t just get trapped up, they charge up full speed (through red lights 😉 )

People often vent something without meaning it but there are some genuine head cases on there!

stopped reading it lest I lose my nerve to ride the road at all. When challenged some will back down and apologise citing heat of the moment (hopefully they weren’t tweeting whilst still at the wheel) but plenty will argue they were right to heap abuse and threats on cyclists, depressing 🙁

Hats off to Toby Hockley.

He certainly had every cause to kick off on a proper rant, but actually his comments on that BBC snippet seemed measured, intelligent without trying to inflame anything…

I don’t think the details in the various interweb retellings really matter, more what the police report has in it…

CycleHatred does seem to feature a disproportionate number of young women. Not sure if this reflects which group hate cyclists the most or just the demographics of twitter.

Yeah that’s a good point.

I have definitely noticed it on the roads though. On the bike I’ve had the deliberate close pass and beep horn manouver – both times from female drivers, once from a pair of princesses in a convertible mini with the top down – they regretted that at the traffic lights 100 yards down the road!

In the car I see it too, really bad tailgating (Audi rep mobile bad!) and a just general aggressive and impatient driving.

“You don’t even pay Vehicle Excise Duty on that bicycle”

My reply is usually “See that Toyota Prius over there? The driver of that doesn’t pay any VED either”.

To be fair, it’s something that’s only ever been said to me in jest.

As a serious point, it’s time that driving tuition was changed to include some mandatory cycling/motorcycling element.

Right, hands up everyone who thinks countering “You don’t pay road tax” with “Actually nobody does it was abolished in year X” is effective in the slightest? I think it just pissed people off more, it makes you look like a smartarse

My thoughts exactly.

The “typing/smug/smart arse” gif I posted summed up my thoughts without me needing to type. But you have described it better than me anyway.

It’s a crap argument that addresses none of the issues and just makes people think the person using it is a dick.

Right, hands up everyone who thinks countering “You don’t pay road tax” with “Actually nobody does it was abolished in year X” is effective in the slightest? I think it just pissed people off more, it makes you look like a smartarse

Agreed – but it is hard not to rise when certain people consistently use “road tax” as a justification for their sense of entitlement.

.gov website uses the term road tax,

Does it?? Says “car tax” or “vehicle tax” on any .gov site I’ve seen.

Right, hands up everyone who thinks countering “You don’t pay road tax” with “Actually nobody does it was abolished in year X” is effective in the slightest? I think it just pissed people off more, it makes you look like a smartarse but most importantly it doesn’t engage the actual point, it just throws a bit of pedantry at it. .gov website uses the term road tax, and it’s perfectly clear what people actually mean. And while you’re bleating about VED, you’re not talking about “please don’t knock us off”

Personally I would tell them I have a band G car parked on my drive so they can **** right off as I pay more tax than they do for their pathetic diesel shitbox.

But that’s just me

As before, I think the strongest way to highlight the false arguments put forward by the vehicle duty / road tax right case is to state what happens.

So:

Driver comes round a bend on the wrong side of road and hits another road user. As other road user is not paying a vehicle tax. Lack of payment of such tax is cited as a justification as to why they have no rights on the road.

Therefore:
Cyclists, horse riders, pedestrians have no rights. Since we playing the emotive game how about changing cyclist to children on a Duke of Edinburgy expedition. Or mother with child in push chair walking along a country lane. Neither of these would be paying a transport related tax for what the are doing at the time. Logic of the anti campaign dictates they too are lesser people.

No one is really going to tweet they think they think they’ve just knocked over a child are they?

Pah, “Road Tax” / VED it seems like barely any bugger has to pay it these days.

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-exempt-from-car-tax

Why are there not more people not commuting by Ride on Mower or one of those diddy Renault Leccy efforts then, if the annual polution charge is such a ball ache?

I think I fancy a Traction Engine…

“Go on then Billy big Bollocks in your Q7, Run my great big bastard Steam powered behemoth off the Road, I’ve not paid any “Road Tax” on it and it slower than costal errosion!!!

Of course if you can get yourself a 40 year old car your laughing, pre ’73 is exempt too…

Lack of payment of such tax is cited as a justification as to why they have no rights on the road.

Funnily enough because cyclists, horse riders and pedestrians do have a right to be there there don’t need to pay the tax. It’s only motor vehicles that need to pay this tax to permit them the use of the road. Even if cyclists did pay road tax it would be £0 as it’s zero emission.

Perhaps there should be a “Clarksons Law” in forums, similar to Godwins law, but every thread about bikes and cars on the road will eventually descend into “I pay road tax, you don’t”?
Clarkson is better viewed as a character he plays, rather than his actual views. A bit like David Cameron plays a buffoon called “Prime Minister”.

Lack of payment of such tax is cited as a justification as to why they have no rights on the road.

it’s bigotry based on a fallacy, they hate cyclists and use a poor argument to defend that hate. Not sure using logic to dismantle their argument will make a lot of difference TBH. Needs a societal change to fix it.

I think clarkson on road cycling is like strava on BW riding, no he/it is not the root of all evil but he/it certainly eggs on the dickheads.

Perhaps there should be a “Clarksons Law” in forums, similar to Godwins law, but every thread about bikes and cars on the road will eventually descend into “I pay road tax, you don’t”?

Discussions would be pretty short as IME “road tax” is the opening gambit of the majority.

That or something about “going through red lights”

is anyone else listening to radio norfolk?

it’s terrifying/hilarious in equal measure…

fella in my office from down asia pacific way takes great delight in telling me cycling is the preserve of the poor – which it may well be in his home country….ive never been

interesting point is that he views his 500 pound ford ka in a higher “social class” than my bicycle….

he also takes great delight in telling me i pay no road tax nor have any right to be on the road.

We have alot to learn from the netherlands and copenhagen though. It is the cars that should be banned from the city centres – park and ride/busses + bike lanes that would cut congestion a plenty 😉

more on the beeb this morning
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-22602141

I just can’t get the image of Steve Buscemi out of my head for some reason…

is anyone else listening to radio norfolk?

Listened to Carlton’s bit and a couple of callers after him. Then had to switch it off before I started shouting and throwing my laptop across the office. 😳

The law should make her cycle round London for the day – that would change her view on cyclists…

Looks like her facebook profile is still active 😈

more on the beeb this morning

‘ere, he’s got a james martin book on his shelf, thought he was still in the cyclist sin bin from his leccy car review!

trail_rat – Member

fella in my office from down asia pacific way takes great delight in telling me cycling is the preserve of the poor – which it may well be in his home country…

Indian friend of mine was absolutely horrified when her son asked for a bike- she rode and walked everywhere as a child (in India and the UK) because it was the only option, and she busted her ass over here to make sure he didn’t have to. Meanwhile he was mortified getting dropped off at school by his mum

GrahamS – Member

Does it?? Says “car tax” or “vehicle tax” on any .gov site I’ve seen.

just for fun, google “road tax”- first hit for me is “Tax discs and road tax” at https://www.gov.uk/browse/driving/car-tax-discs

Clarkson is better viewed as a character he plays, rather than his actual views.

Really?
I think he does believe what he says – at least the basis of it.
Same with Matthew Parris, Nigel Havers and James Martin.

He’s in a position of power – looked up to by a hell of a lot of people.

I’d rather view him as a stupid ****, legitimising hatred and ignorance, if it’s all the same to you.

fella in my office from down asia pacific way takes great delight in telling me cycling is the preserve of the poor – which it may well be in his home country….ive never been

Sadly this seems to be a commonly held belief too.

Ask him if Alan Sugar or Richard Branson (both keen cyclists) are poor or lower status than him in his Ford Ka.

just for fun, google “road tax”- first hit for me is “Tax discs and road tax” at https://www.gov.uk/browse/driving/car-tax-discs

Bah – They’ve changed it again recently then, presumably to make sure they get search engine hits on the new gov.uk site, but you will notice that the URL, sub-headings and body text only refers to it as “car tax” or “vehicle tax”

See also:
Vehicle tax rate tables (gov.uk)
Car tax: get a tax disc for your vehicle (gov.uk)
Vehicles exempt from vehicle tax (gov.uk)
Vehicle Tax (Post Office)

fella in my office from down asia pacific way takes great delight in telling me cycling is the preserve of the poor – which it may well be in his home country….ive never been

Might be a view that took root in recent british culture as well – having a car is seen as having arrived. Those who cycle, recycle or maybe take the bus arent keeping up with Jones.

they clearly dont know how much a Jones costs

Funnily enough because cyclists, horse riders and pedestrians do have a right to be there there don’t need to pay the tax. It’s only motor vehicles that need to pay this tax to permit them the use of the road.

…and we don’t need a license to be on the road either

This Tax/VED thing is all a diversion from the actual issue in this case of course (as those that trot it out each time intend). Any drivers “right” to use a motor vehicle on the road has nothing to do with the taxes or duty paid on their car.

You gain the right to drive on UK roads by passing a test and getting a driving licence. a component of this test being a theory test these days.
The princess in this case will have demonstrated her knowledge of the rules, her ability to observe and avoid vulnerable road users and appropriate judgement of when and where to overtake other vehicles (not on a blind bend for instance).

If she holds a licence gained within the last ~15 years (quite likely) then she cannot plead ignorance, her actions were outside of the law, she was fully aware of this at the time, as evidenced by her holding a UK driving licence… Open and Shut… Right?

Enough of the endless road tax debate.

The only thing I really care about here…. is she locked up yet???

Enough of the endless road tax debate.

The only thing I really care about here…. is she locked up yet???

Her Twitter account has been deleted, could there be any greater punishment???

FFS!!! 🙄 – colleague (lady in 30s) has just joined in our conversation re this.
She was banging on re Tax and then launched into how it was illegal for bikes to ride two abreast and, if they did, they deserve everything they get as roads are for cars. I may just take her company car off her at her next review and replace it with a nice carbon fibre road bike.

appropriate judgement of when and where to overtake other vehicles (not on a blind bend for instance).

From the descriptions I’ve read she wasn’t overtaking, she was coming from the opposite direction, at speed round a blind corner, and glanced the cyclist on his side of the road.

She was banging on re Tax and then launched into how it was illegal for bikes to ride two abreast

Send her on a driver education course as she doesn’t know her Highway Code (Rule 66 – two-abreast IS legal).

(Not that the Highway Code is exactly brimming with good advice for cyclists)

From the descriptions I’ve read she wasn’t overtaking, she was coming from the opposite direction, at speed round a blind corner, and glanced the cyclist on his side of the road.

Oh that’s alright then… 🙄

Rusty Spanner – Member

Clarkson is better viewed as a character he plays, rather than his actual views.

Really?
I think he does believe what he says – at least the basis of it.
Same with Matthew Parris, Nigel Havers and James Martin.

He’s in a position of power – looked up to by a hell of a lot of people.

I’d rather view him as a stupid ****, legitimising hatred and ignorance, if it’s all the same to you.
Im surprised at you rusty, its pretty obvious (well it is to me) that he’s a comedian who’s out to get a reaction on motoring etc.
His piece on cycling in London vs Copenhagen is quite intelligent.
Only the the truly stupid would take his word as truth, and they’re likely to be the sort who wont listen to reasoned debate and logic anyway.

Statistically women are safer drivers, that’s what I’m always told…

But then again…. Oh FFS!:

And yes of course my prejudices are showing…

I just want her absolutely hammered for this!

The rights & wrongs of VED/road tax are for another day. Its the attitude thats present in a person that causes them to have such low regard for another person that concerns me.

Road tax/VED/cyclists is just an excuse for these idiots to vent. If it wasnt cyclists it would be someone else they’d be having a go at..

Those pictures prove nothing as they do not show the driver. There really are some people who can only see stero types, those cars could all have been driven by persons on their way to a now legal wedding. 🙂
Do you think the driver of the Nova(?) that hit the Aston Martin read the garage sign and did one?