MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
I've heard of this phenomenon but not necessarily from Marzocchi. Third ride on these Z2s and whilst stiction was very low they were initially pretty firm in the fully open position, which is at odds with reviews. They seem to have stiffened up a bit which makes them feel.like they need a service.
Is this a thing with Marzocchi? I appreciate the damper is open bath so the right leg is unlikely to be dry but the left could be.
Other option is that Nukeproof have specced a thicker oil in their order and this is making me imagine dryness.
Mine had quite a bit of grease in the air chamber, but felt nice n plush, i got mine from someone breaking a brand new Nukeproof, so i doubt its the oil thickness
ive not checked the lowers
The Z2 I had previously didn't come with a foam ring in lowers - so perhaps that's part of the issue.
Would definitely make them feel dry.
Previous thread on a similar topic might be useful
Ta - did you fit them? Did it help?
If you can DIY a lower service is so cheap/easy its silly not to (despite it being silly having to check such a basic thing on an expensive new fork).
True but that means buying more oil.
Seems the compression damper is under the top cap so it might be easy enough to alter the shim stack, although I have never touched one before. I've done everything else in forks though.
But that would not solve the oil problem if there is one.
I appreciate the damper is open bath so the right leg is unlikely to be dry but the left could be.
I think in this case open bath just means air above the damper, the lower still needs it’s own lubricant in each side. Since you are going to do a lowers service sometime anyway I’d suggest having some foam rings and fluid at the ready and doing the lowers. At least that will be eliminated as the problem
Yes, the damper and the lower are separate, and I think used different weights of oil. It is Fox Gold 20 for the lowers. 10ml each side.
True but that means buying more oil.
I presume you would want to service them again in the future.
That's good news, I already have Fox Gold. New crush washers needed though.
It makes specific reference to the foam rings in those instructions so it's clearly meant to have them.
Call me a bodger but I’d expect to get away with reusing the crush washers. More of an issue is getting around the special tools to release the damper and air shaft rods from the lowers. They aren’t bolts you can whack like RockShox but I think you can get away with careful use of a couple of nuts on the shaft (haven’t tried it as I bought third party versions of the special tools for my Fox forks)
I have reused crush washers on forks multiple times with no issues. Marzocchi, fox and Rockshox
Are there any instructions just for lower service? The link up there seems to be for a full fork (but I might be wrong)
I've re-used Fox crush washers before too.
Re the damper removal tool - it's just there to whack, right? Any reason why I can't by a threaded sleeve for £3 on eBay?
@5lab there's a link to the lower leg instructions in that document in the reassembly part.
Bought some foam rings yesterday at 3pm from Kinetic Bearings, they came today - £3 and free next day delivery! Also a very tempting and comprehensive range of random gubbins for bikes, so +1 for them.
I'm excited now. Will fit after work and ride.
As predicted, only about 2ml of oil drained out and that from one side. It was oily inside though so clearly more went in, but I can't see how that was 10ml on each side. A touch of grease on the seals too.
Topped up, re greased and rings fitted, and as you'd expect it's very slick now. The question will be wether or not it stays that way. Although I can't see why it wouldn't, the lower leg setup is the same as my other Fox and they're pretty good.
Went for a ride, and they are now completely different, far plusher than than they were. They now sound like the forks the reviewers were talking about. I did need to dial in some compression damping as well. I was a bit concerned they wouldn't stay like this but they are the same setup as the other Fox forks I have with the same parts, and they're durable enough.
Why would they allow forks to come from the factory in dire need of a service? Do they not want people to tell their friends that they're great forks?
The pair I had felt nicer after adding the foam rings and oil too.
Maybe fox was concerned the z2 (if they were setup properly from factory) would cannibalise Fox 34 sales. Puzzling either way.
I wonder if the Z1 has the same foam ring issue.
@molgrips how did you get the lowers off as the fox guide says you need a threaded rod, can't just half undo the nuts like with RS etc and gently tap them? thanks
https://www.kineticbikebearings.com/foam-ring-pair-34mm.html these ones?
@dlr yeah those.
The 'special tool' is just to give you something to hit. For the air side I just loosened the nut so it was flush with the rod and tapped it with a piece of wood. For the other side, I took the original nut and wrapped a couple of layers of insulation tape around it then pushed a 12mm socket onto it. The tape ensured the socket stayed on the rod so I could hold the fork and hit the socket. It doesn't take much, but you just need to make sure you don't hit the damper adjustment rod of course.
If you're more patient than me you could just order something like this from eBay. I didn't want to ride my forks as dry as they were, because in the past I'd ruined a set of bushings in a couple of rides.
Hi, great thanks, will do the same on mine
I've had my Z2s a couple of years and never serviced them, a full service looks quite long winded, do I need to do this or can I just add the foam rings? I've ordered the foam rings above. What else do I need other than the tool for removing the damper - oil, seal kit?
@molgrips do you know what dimensions for that threaded rod?
I've just seen the price of the proper tool 😳
a full service looks quite long winded, do I need to do this or can I just add the foam rings?
Forks need a lower leg service every so often - 6 months or so I reckon, although manufacturers will give you stupidly short intervals. It's pretty easy, you just basically need the very beginning and very end of that lot. Steps 1-3 to remove, and 35-37 to remove. 34 if you want to replace the seals. Just whip off the lowers, clean them out (they get a bit dirty after a few years), putting in the specified oil amount and refit. You do need to be scrupulously clean though and avoid introducing dirt. Put the forks in a workstand, and before you disassemble clean ALL the dirt off the area around the seals with a microfibre rag, making sure there's no grime right on the lip, likewise the area around the bottom nuts. Otherwise you'll reintroduce it when you reassemble. The pics show the best technique of adding oil - push the legs on partially, tilt so the legs are up in the air then squirt it into the bottom holes with a syringe (available on eBay for buttons).
The rest is really only necessary if it's broken, leaking etc and then you would not need to do it all, just the relevant bit.
I found £80 for a proper tool, £30 for a knock-off. The nuts look like M8 but don't take my word for it, get a ruler out. It doesn't need to be long, there is only a bit of thread sticking out. I reckon 30-40mm is enough and if you want a longer thing to whack stick another M8 bolt in the end.
My new Z2 was sticky and firm when I initially installed it on my Banshee Paradox. After about 50 miles or so, it didn't improve, so I installed foam wiper rings and reserviced with oil. Now it's as supple & buttery as my Fox 34 Rhythm. I'd suggest all new Z2 owner do this if they're not satisfied with the fork out of the box.
Just follow Fox's directions, skipping all steps regarding the dust seal removal and damper removal & rebuild: https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/help.php?m=bike&id=1052
I used a mallet & appropriate-sized socket on the loosened nut to drive the damper rod out of the lowers.
Well I had another look. Refitted the shims to original configuration. I fitted one leg at a time and found that they were fairly loose, they slid off under gravity which is what you want. But both together they felt somewhat stiffer. So I gave each bush a tiny squiz with the cylinder honing tool.
When I refitted there was much less stiction but more friction, making me think I had just roughed the surface up. But I was paranoid I had left grinding dust or something in there so I did another service just now giving it a really good clean, making sure to not put too much slick honey on the wiper seals, and painting the bushings with oil before assembly. I also had to top up the damper side by about 5ml or so.
Now there's the faintest hint of play, which I think is what you want - every fork I've had has that but this one did not at first. And they feel very supple and reactive.
So if your new fork is not supple enough:
- Service and add oil
- Foam rings
- Slick honey on the wipers (but not too much)
- Burnish the bushings or hone if you are reckless and/or poor
Did anyone ever manage to confirm omit the bushes in these are replaceable or if you have to bin the fork once they wear too much? Just wondering as if that isn’t a problem then they’re up there on my list for replacing my current ones s
<p style="text-align: left;">You wouldn't have to bin the fork , just replace the lower leg assembly. That said, I just spent an afternoon peering down the lowers and I can't see any difference with the bushes, besides what appears to be some kind of cylindrical bump stop at the bottom.</p>
The top bushing is pretty short though.
Lower legs about £160.
So way more than DIY bushings but not a load more than paying for a service and new bushings, maybe?
just serviced mine
ive been thrilled with them so far,
been riding them pretty hard, beat some PBs id set on my 160mm enduro bike!
so was just doing it because i wanted to fit some foam rings
theyd done about 25hrs, so half recommended service interval , there was maybe 5mls of oil in each side and it was a bit mucky
just used the footnuts in a socket to tap the rods back in
I also added new decals to match my frame, didn't think I'd be be able to get magenta -> yellow fade , but Aliexpress sorted me out !
hopefully get a ride im tomorrow
Molgrips
Why would they allow forks to come from the factory in dire need of a service? Do they not want people to tell their friends that they’re great forks?
I always found it weird that tyre companies make cheap and shit tyres to put on new bikes - it's completely put me off WTB based on ones that came with a Whyte for example being totally shite. I'm aware they must make some decent tyres but I just wouldn't feel safe.
You'd think it was bad for the tyre brand AND the bike brand ? I'm not convinced it isn't, but their marketing department must think otherwise?
Bookmarked, boxed pair in the garage for the daughters bike.
well foam.rings and fresh oil and they felt super plush today, had add extra compression damping
I’m not convinced it isn’t, but their marketing department must think otherwise?
Why do you think it’s the “marketing department” trying to cut corners to lower build costs?
I took mine from the recent PSA apart today to fit foam rings and they seemed to have a reasonable amount of oil in the lowers.
There's some suggestion that the seals are not the 'low friction' kind on Foxes, so perhaps another cost saving measure. But the aftermarket ones are all low friction, so perhaps expect some further improvement when it's time to change seals.
When you say aftermarket so you mean some random eBay shop or fox\maz OEM service kit?
If you buy the SKF seals kit (which is about £25) they come with foam rings. Not sure how much better SKF green seals are vs. stock though.
When you say aftermarket so you mean some random eBay shop or fox\maz OEM service kit?
The OEM - supposedly they fit cheaper seals to the Marz, but they're the same dimensions as the Fox and those are the only ones they sell as parts. I've no idea if that's actually true, it was one of the things that comes up on one of those mtbr megathreads where people comment authoritatively but you've no idea how they know what they claim to.
dust wiper part number is the same for z2 and fox 34 #803-00-945
I'm not even sure it would make much sense to spec different ones for the few pence it might save vs having to source a different one
the foam rings seem penny pinching tho !
edit
pinkbike review says thet share parts between the 2 including seals
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/review-marzocchi-bomber-z2-fork-is-impressive.html
The Marzocchi and Fox performance forks all come with Fox own brand wiper seals. They are a shiny black colour as opposed to matte black and are not very good at all in our experience. They aren't as durable as the ones in Fox performance elite or factory level forks.
Ah, so if you buy replacement seals what do you get? Shiny or matte factory ones?
Matte black are the ones supplied by Fox for these forks. They don't sell the own brand ones aftermarket.
Kelvin
Why do you think it’s the “marketing department” trying to cut corners to lower build costs?
Lower build costs are a function of defining a package fits into a pricepoint. My understanding is that's part of what marketing do?
In the example I gave that's 2 separate marketing depts. that were or should have been involved and either determined the customer experience after purchase wasn't important or failed to communicate this to other parts of the company (which is internal marketing).
It's just one example... I personally can't see how it works for either but I'm assuming it does or they and others wouldn't do the same thing. In part it seems accepted from bike manufacturers and reviewers that tyres are like pedals other than they have to put "something" on and it will be replaced during "reviews" anyway.
To some extent the bike manufacturers aren't incorrect especially Big 5 globally ... I don't expect a bike with tyres for California to work with UK winters and a "name brand" tyre that's not really meant to be used maybe sells the entire bike better than a chinesium branded one with paper tyre walls so they can advertise a lower overall bike weight?
Where I'm struggling is where the tyre manufacturer's marketing dept either aren't saying or being listened to that this will reflect poorly on the brand. I'm sure there is more to this as well .. maybe a large "accessories" company see's selling more accessories as part of that package as more important? (i.e. saddle and finishing kit) and maybe because Whyte is a fairly minor company in the vast scheme?
What does seem common though is the WTB saddles on Whytes tend to split and the tyres are about as bad as tyres can get and still look like tyres... but its a small market segment I suppose?
It's not really put me off WTB saddles .. if one was on sale for £10-£15 and I needed a saddle I'd use one (indeed the old one is glued back together) but tyres I wouldn't feel safe, even though I KNOW these are specifically made junk tyres because ... well they are tyres and having confidence in them is 1/2 the feeling?