I looking for a smallish camera………

Had a GF1 with 20mm which I loved other than not having a proper viewfinder. I want a Fuji X100 but thats not gonna happen anytime soon.

Have been considering the LX5 because of the zoom lens but not sure how this would stack up IQ wise against the old GF1.

Also quite interested by the Pen EP-2 / EPL-2 or oven the slighty larger Lumix G2, G10 etc etc.

This has all been brought on by an imminent trip to Amsterdam to see a band so variable zoom would be good but can live without it dedpending on IQ (again hence the LX5 thoughts).

So then, a travel camera with good IQ and good low light performance – hate using a flash.

Anyone care to enlighten me 🙂

I’ve got a Leica D Lux 4 for sale if you’re interested, email in profile if you want any details.

I’ve got an LX3 and like it a lot. just about small enough to go in a jeans pocket. very fast lens for a compact, so good in low light.

For the LX5, they’ve fixed my major gripes: the zoom’s longer, the 1:1 aspect ratio is on the lens with the other aspect ratios, rather than buried 12 button presses into the menus, and the mode selection button’s been stiffened up, so you don’t start shooting on different settings because you brushed the dial on leaf.

Trouble is, my LX3 has been put through the NedRapier Accelerated Wear Programme, and has too many dinks and scratches to be worth flogging for cash towards an LX5. Still works, though. It’ll survive a few drops.

The Canon S95 is supposed to be very good too. Had a look at that one?

Bought an LX5 about a month ago (to replace a Nikon P5000). Very impressed with the handling and low light performance.

I rejected the Canon as being too fiddly to use.

LX5 gripes? The focus and aspect ratio switches are too easy to knock. The buttons on the back should have had the ‘legends’ painted in as well as machined (it’s difficult to see what they do). Lens cap can be annoying.

Still no viewfinder though – isn’t that a problem for you?

I’ve got an e-p2, which is pretty much an e-pl2 in a retro body and no flash. I had the e-p1 previously which is the same as the e-p2 except it does not have the expansion port for (amongst other things) an external view finder.

IQ is very good. ISO isn’t worth worrying about up-to and including 1600. Usable beyond that under most circumstances.

Some examples.

Fire light – ISO 1600 (17mm f2.8):

Pub light – ISO 1600 (14-42mm zoom lens):

Day light – ISO 200 (14-42mm zoom lens):

The zoom lens is fine for ‘normal’ low light – i.e. not fire light. When it gets that dark you won’t get focus lock (although if you manual focus you should get usable results). The 17mm f2.8 will focus lock though.

The e-pl and gf should be very similar. The main difference between olympus and panasonic are that olympus use in-body stabilisation and panasonic use in-lens stabilisation. This makes olympus lenses smaller (which is handy in a small system). Ultimately panasonic stabilisation is better if the lens is stabilised, but they only do zooms lenses with stabilisation.

If you’re in the market for the LX5 then you should have a look at the Samsung EX1 too. It’s very similar but quite a bit cheaper (due to discounts…).

Did some research into this, ‘wot I learned’ (camera newbie though, so take with a pinch of salt):

G10 – The most DSR like in size and handling. Has an EVF, but not as good quality EVF as G1 or 2, or the optional (but expensive) EVF for the PENS

PEN – Differences across range, but smaller and lighter than the G10 and IQ as good/better. No EVF.

LX5 (and similar) – Truly compact, unlike the others, can fit in a shirt pocket. Smaller sensor means longer DOF, so less scope for blurring foreground/background. Less flexibility in terms of lenses and ‘serious’ photography, but significant advantages in terms of portability.

Just IMO of course. I was after my first ‘serious’ camera, but one that I would actually use as opposed to leaving at home, so went for a (cheaper) PEN. M43 standard looks like it will be around for a while, so I will be happy buying another lens or two if I get serious.

How about an olympus xz-1? It’s what i am going to get when i’ve got enough pennies.

Have been considering the LX5 because of the zoom lens but not sure how this would stack up IQ wise against the old GF1.

There’s some gig shots here taken with the LX5 – looks pretty impressive to me.

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=3038522

Personally though I am a sucker for shallow DOF with fast lenses and you can’t really do this with an LX5 – it does have a slightly bigger sensor than most compacts but still tiny compared to the GF1s.

For gigs I take the GF1 and an old manual focus 58mm f2 lens – with the crop factor on the GF1 it’s usually about right. I realise this option isn’t fun for everyone though, I quite like manually focussing. The lack of a VF has never bothered me tbh.

Someone posted up on here about being able to get a EPL1 with kit lens for £280 – sounds like quite a bargain.

That’s what I got. It’s being sold in many places for that price right now.

You can get a G10 for about £330 if you look around.

If you are looking at the LX5 it’s also worth looking at the Oly XZ1 and the Canon S95. All a similar class of camera, and going for £300ish.

Doh – forget my chat about the LX5, this also goes for the DLUX4, S95, EX1 & XZ-1….cant shoot in RAW 🙁

I think this leaves me at either the PEN or back to the GF1 – no real hardship there though, just wanted to consider my options.

This will now come down to price so I’ll be searching for any of the PEN models or GF1 – if anyone knows of any amazing deals out there please let me know.

Based on 5ths pictures and comments (lens size) I’d be more than happy to go for a PEN.

Thanks for all your help

Doh – forget my chat about the LX5, this also goes for the DLUX4, S95, EX1 & XZ-1….cant shoot in RAW

?

LX3 and 5 shoot in RAW. RAW and JPG simultaneously if you like…

Doh – forget my chat about the LX5, this also goes for the DLUX4, S95, EX1 & XZ-1….cant shoot in RAW

Really? Don’t think that’s right.

edit: S95 can too, not sure about the others

The G10 was the most likely alternative to the LX5 for me. It seems to have lost it’s edge now though – compared to the LX5

– sensor is smaller
– lens is slower
– much larger

The advantages are – lots of physical controls (rather than menu based) and an optical viewfinder. The Lumix interface is good enough that the former isn’t a problem and the viewfinder is seriously compromised and something in reality very rarely used (even in bright tropical sunlight i didn’t miss it).

I’d love a bigger sensor again but you then go to a camera that definitely isn’t pocketable. The LX5’s ability to do shallow DoF is way better than any other compact I’ve used but you do have to be pretty close to the subject.

PEN – Differences across range, but smaller and lighter than the G10 and IQ as good/better. No EVF.

EVF is an optional extra (on all but e-p1).

Doh – forget my chat about the LX5, this also goes for the DLUX4, S95, EX1 & XZ-1….cant shoot in RAW

Dlux4 does shoot in RAW and RAW+JPEG too, also comes with Capture One software.

Doh – forget my chat about the LX5, this also goes for the DLUX4, S95, EX1 & XZ-1….cant shoot in RAW

Doh – I’m an idiot – so it can – LX5 is back on the cards, along with the XZ-1 🙂

I think what worries me is that after having a GF1 I’ll be underwhelmed with the LX5 (etc) – but it is very pockatable

wanted: moon on a stick

LeeW – thats for the offer on the Leica, but I think if a go for something like this it’ll be the LX5 as it has the greater zoom range on it

I think what worries me is that after having a GF1

Why did you get rid?

– sensor is smaller
– lens is slower
– much larger

Don’t know about the lens speed, but the G10 has a significantly bigger sensor than the LX5 – crop factor of ~2 compared to a crop factor of ~4.3.

It was the pocketability that sold the LX-3 to me. I take loads more pictures because the camera is there and to hand rather than at home or burried in a bag. There is more than enough manual settings to fiddle with and the picture quality is very good. The LX-5 does seem to solve the minor niggles I do have.

A quick google suggest the G10 has a crop of 4.6x

the G10 has a significantly bigger sensor than the LX5

Are you sure?

http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon_PowerShot_G10-vs-Panasonic_Lumix_DMC-LX5

I have no personal experience with any of these, but a blog I read has a fair bit on the LX5 which might be useful.

http://manessinger.com/tag/panasonic-dmc-lx5-review

Are you sure?

http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon_PowerShot_G10-vs-Panasonic_Lumix_DMC-LX5

That page has it down as a 1/1.7″ 8.3×6.2mm sensor. So, yeah 4.6 sounds about right.

No worries Yoshimi, that’s one of the reasons I want rid.

Why did you get rid?

To fund my D90 – which is great for going out to ‘do photography’ – theres nothing quite like a good viewfinder and having all controls easy to hand but not so great for throwing in pocket when mouching about…….which I seem to do a lot more of

Err are we talking about the Panasonic G10 or the Canon G10?

I was talking about the Panasonic G10! May clear up the confusion. I think the OP was talking about the Panasonic G10 too, but not 100% on that.

Ah, I see… your link to the canon g10 specs didn’t help the confusion 😉

I blame panasonic. Using the same name as one of the best known canon compacts wasn’t too bright!

I like my LX-5 after some Olympuses and Nikons I didn’t.

Not a D300 but not bad at all.

Your suggestion that it was me that linked to the specs of the Canon which didn’t help the confusion doesn’t help the confusion either. 🙂

Ah yes. You could well be a completely different person. Tricky business this internet stuff.

I’ve just bought an XZ-1, great lens and sensor for a small camera. Had a big bridge camera (Fuji S9500) before and despite going smaller the Olympus is a step up in image quality and depth of field control.

Had a GF1 with 20mm which I loved other than not having a proper viewfinder. I want a Fuji X100 but thats not gonna happen anytime soon.

Get the x100 😈 and then eat baked beans everyday 😀

http://www.bythom.com/compactmirrorless.htm

plenty of Olympus EPL-1s on ebay for much cheapness.
big sensor and superb zuiko lenses.
also look at the very small sony nex cameras.

both these cameras are much discounted.

Get the x100

dpreview just reviewed it – there’s some pretty dodgy flaws with it at the moment. I wouldn’t want to pay a grand to be a beta tester for it.

dpreview just reviewed it – there’s some pretty dodgy flaws with it at the moment. I wouldn’t want to pay a grand to be a beta tester for it.

and heres their summary at the very bottom

The X100 is an exasperating conundrum of a camera, combining excellent image quality, solid build and a superb viewfinder with sluggish operation and eccentric, buggy firmware. If you’re prepared to put up with its numerous oddities and faults then it will repay you with superb results.

note superb results and buggy firmware

but firmware is something that can be fixed and I guess it depends how much those specific problems will annoy you

the big negative is the price…

Sorry, not been back on, so some summary responses –

I meant the Panasonic G10

donald – thats an excellent read, thanks

EPL1 does look bargaintastic – a contender

The X100 is the nuts – well looks wise anyway 😀

I’m leaning toward either a 2nd hand GF1/PEN EP-2 or new PEN EPL-1 or new LX5

All depends on price now – will be scanning the net today

THanks for all your help 🙂

Bullet has been bitten – just bought a mint, barely used GF1 with 14-42mm, boxed with all accessories still unopened – £350 – that’ll do donkey:)