[Closed] Lightweight insulated jackets: down vs synthetic

Would

If you will be getting it wet then yes, synthetic is the best way really. And I agree that the better brands are closing the gap. But it’s still quite big in my opinion. The other option is one of the hybrid down/synthetics that are doing the rounds. Or waterproof down… http://www.berghaus.com/mens-ulvetanna-hybrid-hydrodown-jacket/421348.html?dwvar_421348_color=U79&cgid=mens-down-insulated-jackets

Cheers. Am doing it on the cheap so it'll just have to weight a bit more! I got a £45 Sportpursuit one, 650gm, vs £60 TKMax down one @ 300gm!

I might just go for down and keep on top of the DWR, but my 3 week old Gill softshell has already stopped beading 🙁

I've recently read a few articles on this as I've been looking to get a few new bits in the cupboard.

- Rab Xenon X is a highly rated synthetic that is warm and packable
- PHD and others make down with water resistant outers
- If it's cold enough for down when you're active, it may well be snowing so waterproofing is for different situations e.g. snow melt, not driving rain for 2 hours.
- There are a few articles on the web that argue a good case for several thin layers being better than 1 or 2 thick layers, even if its v cold.
- Synthetics are good for putting on top of already wet / damp clothing, whereas that wouldn't be helpful for down as the inside fabric isn't waterproof.

PHD make some of the best down gear around and they have sale on at the moment.

Cheers - it's mostly for waiting around/going to the shops if I am honest - would never wear it when exercising beyond walking

- If it's cold enough for down when you're active, it may well be snowing so waterproofing is for different situations e.g. snow melt, not driving rain for 2 hours.

Thats quite situation specific. For a cyclist whose bunged top in bag in case they have to stop unexpectedly I don'tthink tha this would be true

My wife and I went gillet shopping at the weekend. Loads on water proof down about but not much synthetic

I'm skeptical but ignorant of synthetic down

particulary in the long term

TKmax is a waiting game isn't it. Every so often there is something amazing and cheap. Rather than tat they bought for you to buy in the absence of an actual bargain

My concern about cheap synthetic is that will be heavy and not last. I wonder of the budget option is fleece

I think Lands End stuf is good value

They do a primaloft jacket

Just a matter of waiting for the sale

(20% off at the mo' for signing up to the news letter)

Funnily enough I just posted a link to the Finisterre outlet which has some decent deals on insulation at the moment.

I've got a couple of their Bise gilets and they are great.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/psa-finisterre-outlet?replies=1#post-6448364

cynic-al
Better synthetics (i.e. proper brands, £100+) seem to close the gap though yes?

Definitely synthetic. Good ones anyway. They are within spitting distance of down in terms of heat/insulation but none of the bulk or maintenance issues.

I've got a Mountain Equipment Bastion and it's warm enough to be worn with just a t-shirt in nearly any conditions. I don't have to worry about getting it wet (it's still warm when wet) and it has the added benefit of not making look like I'm a polar explorer who got lost at the airport.

Definitely synthetic. Good ones anyway. They are within spitting distance of down in terms of heat/insulation but none of the bulk or maintenance issues.

Down is still considerably warmer for a given weight imo. That extra 'bulk' i.e. loft, is what provides the additional warmth (to a degree, quality of fill also contributes). Generally speaking though, synthetic is a better bet in our wet UK environment. I use both, and synthetic gets out much more than the down.

I've got a Arc't Atom vest which I wear a lot. Found it half price, £50, would never have paid £100! Low bulk, gets worn a lot under jackets, Makes a warm winter jacket out of a hardshell.

It's a great low bulk thing to stick in a saddlebag for stops when out on the bike, and for wearing on the bike when it's very cold. With no arms and a zip front, it's very easy to keep the right temperature on the bike. Very warm zipped to the neck, barely there when totally open.

I have both down and synthetic jackets and almost never find it cold enough in the UK for down. The only time I'd bother with the down jacket is if I'm likely to be stood still-ish in sub zero temps for more than half an hour at a time (winter climbing, for example). My down is a nice Outdoor Designs one that would have been ~£150-£200 (it was a gift), but my synthetic was something like £50 from sportpursuit. My £50 jacket is pretty much as good as the much more expensive Mountain Equipment jacket that I trashed through over use.

So I'd say unless you're buying a jacket for particularly cold conditions then synthetic is the way forward - it'll be warm enough for most UK temps and doesn't turn into a useless bag of wet feathers if it rains.

angeldust

Down is still considerably warmer for a given weight imo.

I think in this climate it's a moot point unless you're an emaciated anemic woman who's always cold. For me, a good down jacket is too warm for anything short of sitting outside on a freezing night. I can see how they might be great for a nice stroll at -20 but we don't often see those conditions.

That extra 'bulk' i.e. loft, is what provides the additional warmth (to a degree, quality of fill also contributes).

Yes but that's also what limits mobility and gives you that oh so fashoinable Michelin Man look.

The other jacket that I wear quite a bit that's worth a mention is the Montane Sabretooth softshell.

It's a nice weight, feels nice on, always seems to be cool enough or warm enough and with a montane pulse underneath (thin fleece, like a jumper) it's warm enough for most things I'm doing outside (e.g. playing with the kids in the park, walking / cycling around the local area). It was great when at EuroDisney last Oct as it was fairly cold, windy, bit of drizzle, but I was warm, didn't overheat, and the stretch fabric was easy to move about in. They are cut quite slim though so with a 38" inch chest I'm in a medium with a thin top underneath, but in a large if I need a pulse shirt and another layer underneath (good for single digit temps).

In terms of price...I nearly always buy second hand / new without tags stuff on ebay or in sales. I've not paid more than £100 for a PHD minimus pullover (spec'd to -5C), a few Sabretooth jackets, and less than that for a new Xenon X (planning some backpacking trips next spring and I wanted to try one as an extra layer on top of the Sabretooth).

Yes but that's also what limits mobility and gives you that oh so fashoinable Michelin Man look.

Yeah, only time I use down for anything strenuous is when trekking at high altitude where its been -20C or lower. In this situation the equivalent synthetic would have been much bulkier and heavier. Really depend how much warmth/insulation you require. If it's cold enough I don't really care how michelin I look. Perhaps you have never experienced conditions that extreme?
In the UK, I pretty much only use down for keep warm when static (camping etc) or dog walking when it's really cold.

angeldust

Yeah, only time I use down for anything strenuous is when trekking at high altitude where its been -20C or lower. In this situation the equivalent synthetic would have been much bulkier and heavier. Really depend how much warmth/insulation you require. If it's cold enough I don't really care how michelin I look. Perhaps you have never experienced conditions that extreme?
In the UK, I pretty much only use down for keep warm when static (camping etc) or dog walking when it's really cold.

We are pretty much in agreement. I've experienced -20 in Austria, and a few winters here have hit -14 or -15. Of course you won't be worried about how you look in those conditions. I wasn't making a dig at you, I just find it amusing when I see people wearing arctic gear to the shops on a nice day. They generally have a pair of white oakleys on their head, probably drive an A4 avant......... 🙂

I find for going in and out of shops, getting into cars, walking about, really doing anything active, down is just too much. And again it's a headache when it rains. If you go for a walk in the woods you're worried about brambles... So synthetic for me all the way.

I've got 2 down jackets (ME Dewline, ME Lightline) and 3 Primaloft jackets (2 x MacPac Pulsar, Mammut Rime Pro).

These days I probably wouldn't bother with down unless it was for something that specifically warranted it ie winter camping/camping barn, summer alps bivi etc.

For mostly fashion use I think primaloft is much more practical and warm enough. My Primaloft One Macpac jackets get worn all year round.

Basically what stevious^ says

These days I probably wouldn't bother with down unless it was for something that specifically warranted it ie winter camping/camping barn, summer alps bivi etc.

This.

I have a down jacket which I use a lot for astronomy as for a jacket that I'll wear standing still for long periods it is the warmest option, I also use it when camping - in every other situation I'm likely to find myself in, especially in UK conditions, synthetic wins.

It's for going to the shops, you might be over thinking this.

Thanks all. Synth it is - I want a hood tho, so those links ain't for me, but I think I have sourced something OK.

I have a lot of primaloft and down jackets/tops

I'm looking for a primaloft hoody at the moment and the one that catches my eye is a North Face Thermoball Hoody. I have the Thermoball vest and its a nice bit of kit

Double use as it doesn't look too bad for normal town use too

I think (hope) I'm getting a thermoball jacket for Christmas. I tried a nano puff down jacket at the weekend in Costco and I find it hard to spend £130 on something a) makes you look like a trainspotter and b) doesn't work when wet, which is not much us in Macclesfield.

I like the thermoball vests as they tuck away to a small pocket size ball and are v waterresistant making them ideal to put on to keep cosy when waiting at the start of a ride or for a mechanical etc.
I think ratrace.com had a good deal on them but with limited sizes last time I looked

Thanks for the tip guys, I had a RR voucher (from a DNS'd event) which I was struggling to spend...North Face Thermoball it is!

High end kit heaven here I come!

cynic-al - Member
Thanks all. Synth it is - I want a hood tho, so those links ain't for me, but I think I have sourced something OK.

Bought myself a 'duvet jacket' a couple of weekends ago online from 'the hut'.
Craghoppers Danby Jacket reduced from £140 to £46! Dunno how good it is compared to others, but it's very warm, comfortable, seems well made and looks good. Well pleased for <£50.

Here:

http://www.thehut.com/sports-jackets/craghoppers-men-s-danby-hooded-insulated-jacket-black-pepper-charcoal/black/10988502.html

Now only £43!!!

Al - does it have a hood for driving your open-topped car through the streets at night, in November?

Of course druid, that was a priority.

Good deal stumpy, is it light/compact?

I like the thermoball vests as they tuck away to a small pocket size ball and are v waterresistant making them ideal to put on to keep cosy when waiting at the start of a ride or for a mechanical etc.

another option if you've not pressed "buy" yet. Looks better than the crinkly quilt imo.

http://arcteryx.com/product.aspx?language=EN&gender=Mens&model=Atom-AR-Hoody

For the past few years I've been a fan of various down jackets I've owned, including an alpkit , HH, Marmott.
This year Ive picked up a Arcteryx Atom SV which feels as warm as the others but with the benefit of being able to throw it into the washing machine without any special treatment or re fluffing.

I've also got a 3 year old Mavic inferno jackets which is primaloft and has been amazingly warm and robust.

60 quid off tnf thermoball hoody at Cotswolds, if you like light blue....

cynic-al - Member
Of course druid, that was a priority.

Good deal stumpy, is it light/compact?

I don't really have anything to compare it to, but it seems pretty light, given how warm it is and i managed to squidge it pretty small.
I have only bought it as an everyday jacket, so not overly concerned by 'technical' aspects as such. Just wanted something warm that looked OK.

stumpy the best ones will pack into one of their pockets - really small!