Have you seen the way some teenage fans behave.
Rational thinking may not always prevail.

Not meaning to derail this back onto the subject, but

I think we need to know what he actually did and put things into some perspective

You can quite literally use Google to find out the claims.

It sounds non ideal but consistent with a reasonably normal range of behaviour and far, far away from Weinstein type antics. He had a party, this guy got bored and went to watch telly in his bedroom, he was drunk and horny and someone was in his room, he made a drunken clumsy OTT attempt at seduction that may have strayed into sexual assault, particularly considering his age. Ill advised/wrong, but miles away from tricking people into coming into your hotel room and trying to coerce them into sexual acts.

Didn’t we already do the “all men are monsters” thread recently? I seem to recall it went really well.

chip – Member

What percentage of men would behave like that if they thought they could get away with it.
Sadly probably a lot more than you would hope.

Take a look at the international statistics for rape, but keep in mind that in some countries and cultures it is basically impossible for a man to be convicted of rape, and (often in the same culture) women who allege rape will be punished by the law.

Rape and gross sexual harassment is not as prevalent in modern civilised cultures because of empathy and respect. Most men could probably get away with a rape or sexual assault if they planned it out. Same with murder. We’re not hanging by a thread on the precipice of violent or sexual crimes at a moments notice, there are cultural and ethical reasons why this is so, not just the fact it’s illegal.

A pop star sleeping with groupies isn’t comparable to Weinstein, it’s the complete opposite. Famous women, if they were want to do so could also sleep with plenty of their fans.

.

.

Not meaning to derail this back onto the subject, but

All I can find is he picked him up and put him on the bed and tried to get with me sexually which could mean many things but there still is the age thing.

He could have been a strapping lad at fourteen that his age may not have been apparent to spacey in his state.

Does it say if he knew how old he was.

A pop star sleeping with groupies isn’t comparable to Weinstein, it’s the complete opposite.

I did not mean to compare it just asking a question,

I wonder if Meryl Streep will give her views on all the matters happening at Hollywood now … hhmmm … I wonder.

There have been rumours about his liking young men for many years, along with hints of sleaziness. I don’t recall anything about underage boys or sexual assault but let’s see what emerges now.

What percentage of men would behave like that if they thought they could get away with it.

Well I did some reading around this recently as a result of ‘that’ thread and there are a number of studies that give figures which range between 2% and 4%. Don’t ask me to cite the papers, you can do your own research.

Of course as close to 100% as makes no difference have at some point made a pass at someone.

The Spacey story is only troubling because of the age of the individual concerned but that itself is only based on if he knew beyond reasonable doubt that the boy was under age. At 14, it would be difficult not to.

philjunior – Member
Not meaning to derail this back onto the subject, but
I think we need to know what he actually did and put things into some perspective

You can quite literally use Google to find out the claims.
It sounds non ideal but consistent with a reasonably normal range of behavior and far, far away from Weinstein type antics. He had a party, this guy got bored and went to watch telly in his bedroom, he was drunk and horny and someone was in his room, he made a drunken clumsy OTT attempt at seduction that may have strayed into sexual assault, particularly considering his age. Ill advised/wrong, but miles away from tricking people into coming into your hotel room and trying to coerce them into sexual acts.

That’s how I read it – it’s a 30 year old memory & there’s no telling how much of it was true but you could spin it to Spacey’s perspective (not that he can recall it) that at the end of the party he found an attractive young lad on his bed so he thought “my luck’s in” so he (clumsily) tested the water and got turned down, lad went home. End of. There’s no indication Spacey knew his age at the time.

Spacey can have had no control over the memories in the Anthony Rapp’s head as he was completely unaware of them and Rapp has made it clear he made no effort to broach the subject with him so they could reach some kind of “closure”.

I know what it’s like to have someone’s inadvertent misdeed burn away at you for years and it’s not pleasant but even I can see that from the description that this isn’t the black and white attempted child rape story some might want it to be.

Oh and Spacey’s been openly gay for a long while. It’s not news.

House of Cards has been cancelled mid filming.

^ it would appear that Kevin may have a lot of skeletons in his now open closet. Shame he chose to hang coming out which what appears to be a habit of sexual predatory behaviour … maybe

I’m not sure how he could comment on an allegation made by another man, without “coming out”.

House of Cards has been cancelled mid filming.

Boo!

Why now? Why are we having this debate about old Hollywood guys when meanwhile, on the other side of the USA, a man sits in a big chair in a big white house. A man who said “I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. When you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.”

All of this outrage is misplaced. We’re making guesses and insinuations about what may or may not have happened to a fairly well-known actor, and yet the President of United States admits sexual assault on camera and we’ve all forgotten just a few months later.

<Insert your favourite Walter Sobcek image here>

^^ not an unreasonable question but then we have the whole Bill Clinton saga

Yep, but don’t worry we can play the word association game all day…
http://www.newnownext.com/19-republican-politicians-brought-down-by-big-gay-sex-scandals/12/2016/
https://www.ranker.com/list/republican-sex-scandals/web-infoguy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_political_sex_scandals_in_the_United_States#2010.E2.80.932017
What we can say is that there is a power problem. Then there is the acceptance issue where people still voted for a guy who was proud to confess to sexual assault and the rest
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/26/16526922/harvey-weinstein-donald-trump-sexual-harassment
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/27/donald-trump-sexual-harassment-claims-women-lying-white-house
the amount of standards it’s hard to use term double there

Seems maybe Spacey’s house of cards may be starting to fall.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41812439

House of Cards has been cancelled mid filming.

To be completely narcissistic, next series (which they’re still going to make) shouldn’t have been the last anyway, the story is told, the negative press on the actor will make it easier to kill of the character, which is how it should have always ended.

Sometimes it needs a trial by media to kick the authorities into doing anything. Far too often complaints of sexual misconduct, assault and rape have been ignored by the authorities we rely on to protect us because of the supposed power and/or fame of the perpetrator. The Saville revelations went some way to chip away at the abuse by celebrities in the UK, the Wheinstine case looks to have done so again at a wider group of authority figures and more internationally.

Yes, obviously it gets talked about and the subject matter emblazoned all over the media platform….

As is proven by a thread on single track about it.

But….. and it is a big BUT…. you’ve all made your own minds up about guilt/sexual harassment/punishment without really knowing what the circumstances were between the two individuals.

Witchunt by Media is what it is, and you’re all involved in it.

so he thought “my luck’s in” so he (clumsily) tested the water and got turned down, lad went home. End of. There’s no indication Spacey knew his age at the time

Ah, but according to a lot of people who commented on the other thread, this ^^^ is the very definition of sexual harassment.

Quite a number of people who posted on that thread made it really clear that the definition of harassment/assualt is whatever the person on the receiving end of that approach thought of the approach.

If they decided that they’ve been harassed or assaulted then, according to some poeple, that is enough for it to be so.

I’m with you though; I think that making a pass at someone doesn’t automatically consistue harassment or assault, but it might based on other variables.

Of course, the real issue with the Spacey story is the age of the individual. A 14 year old boy rarely looks like anything other than a 14 year old boy. It almost certainly doesn’t make Stacey guilty of peodphillia (as has been suggested by others in the press), but it’s clearly very wrong.

Quote from Julia Hartley-Brewer is interesting –

“I believe it is absurd and wrong to treat workplace banter and flirting – and even misjudged sexual overtures – between consenting adults as being morally equivalent to serious sexual harassment or assault,” she said in a statement.
“It demeans genuine victims of real offences.”

I kind of agree with her – but there is a problem where one of the consenting adults has “power” (ie. is their superior in the workplace) over the other. Then it should be reported – but NOT to the World! Just to their HR departments.
That a bloke putting his hand on a woman’s knee (15 YEARS AGO!!) is now national news is utterly ridiculous.
(sorry, not Spacey related, but relevant-ish!)

Witchunt by Media is what it is, and you’re all involved in it.

Whilst that may be true, you don’t seem to show any qualms of doing exactly that when it comes to politicians.

CallmeDumbass proved that even porking pork doesn’t get you sacked.

and 13 in Spain until 2015.

FWIW that was more to do with gypsy weddings rather than something that would be socially acceptable in mainstream society – most of Spain has fairly similar views to the UK about the subject.

You are right, but that’s not illegal.

As far as I’m aware putting your nob in a dead pigs head is perfectly acceptable form of an initiation ceremony only Tories are perverse to..
Trying in vein to align that comment by me to this thread is very poor form, even by you.

Carry on.

That a bloke putting his hand on a woman’s knee (15 YEARS AGO!!) is now national news is utterly ridiculous.
(sorry, not Spacey related, but relevant-ish!)

depends if it encourages more people to come forward , tho jhb has couched her statement so that anyone that let him go further will be seen as weaker than her.

Interestingly Fallon isnt on the tory spreadsheet (despite having previous for allegedly getting too close to russian honey traps when drunk)

still Murdochs leak of this has been effective as its now being dissmissed as PC gone mad, rather than justifications for sackings, by-elections….

mogrim – Member

and 13 in Spain until 2015.

FWIW that was more to do with gypsy weddings rather than something that would be socially acceptable in mainstream society – most of Spain has fairly similar views to the UK about the subject. [/quote]

In my experience on school trips to Spain the constant, unwanted and lecherous attention from grown men toward 14 and 15 year old girls contradicts your post.

In my experience on school trips to Spain the constant, unwanted and lecherous attention from grown men toward 14 and 15 year old girls contradicts your post.

ime a random club night at Ritzys of Dunstable in my youth would see underage girls getting similar attention from lecherous drunk blokes.

kimbers – Member

ime a random club night at Ritzys of Dunstable in my youth would see underage girls getting similar attention from lecherous drunk blokes.

Yeah well in a club there’s at least the some plausibility that the girls in it will be over 18, dark lights and alcohol to lower inhibitions. Trying to grope a young girl on a sunny street in Barcelona in broad daylight or taxi drivers asking them to rub their chests is……different.

Yeah well in a club there’s at least the some plausibility that the girls in it will be over 18,

tis true was often the bouncers that let them in

Im not saying dunstable was a shithole but the 1st girl in my year to get pregnant was teh daughter of the vicar & our school nurse!
(tbf it all passed me by as I was far too busy playing Dungeons & Dragons than being cool)

but I digress

Spacey is a sleazebag and his career is finished

I wondered why he was only ever good in American Beauty.

Why now? Why are we having this debate about old Hollywood guys when meanwhile, on the other side of the USA, a man sits in a big chair in a big white house. A man who said “I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. When you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.”

http://newsthump.com/2017/10/31/television-president-held-to-higher-standards-than-the-real-one/

Trying to grope a young girl on a sunny street in Barcelona in broad daylight or taxi drivers asking them to rub their chests is……different.

I’ve certainly not seen anything like that in Madrid.

Spacey committed a pedo act, simple as…but because he’s a well liked ‘luvvie’ and at the same time came out as gay he cleverly and cynically moved himself into the victim category….which is odd because the left have always hated conflating homosexuality with pedophilia….but it would seem in Spacey’s case/defence it’s ok.

It’s hilarious watching the double standards at play here.

This is the problem with social justice, it’s not justice at all, it looks for victims, it looks for excuses for criminal behavior etc…how about not giving a crap what color, age or sexuality the perpetrator is and just prosecute the crime.

Spacey molested a 14yr old, charge him with it….it doesn’t matter that he’s gay, or was drunk or any of the other claptrap being spouted about his life….if any of these things are genuinely found to be mitigating factors then a jury will decide accordingly.

It’s not rocket science.

he cleverly and cynically moved himself into the victim category

He hasn’t done this at all. You’re bringing your own agenda to it.

His career is potentially finished and there may well be legal charges arising, but you understood that detectives don’t just charge someone based on a news headline, yeah?

Trying in vein vain to align that comment by me to this thread is very poor form, even by you.

I know it is frightfully inconvenient when someone points out one’s hypocrisy. But you carry on repeating some scuttlebutt, whilst criticizing people for discussing allegations where someone has actually gone on the record.

From a Popbitch promo email just now…

We’ll be back as normal on Thursday. So if Kevin Spacey wants to prepare any more dogshit excuses, he has 48 hours.

They’ve been sharing rumours about him for many years.

It’s hilarious watching the double standards at play here.

i think you mean its amusing see you search for a way to make this all about lefties so you can shoehorn in your own personal agenda.

Back to the original post, I’m not sure he will get away with it ,whether he ” happened ” to be the last person there with a 14 year old by accident or design will need to be examined , if he is a predator on a more regular basis then the allegations will start emerging .I don’t think it will end well for him.