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He's going to stand as the candidate with the best "dithering qualities", apparently Angela Eagle is just too decisive.
🙂
The most illuminative thing to come out of this is the Labour Party's inability to manage a simple task like electing a leader. Rules open to question then a last minute shifting of the qualification requirements (£3 bs £25 and immediate eligability vs 6m requirement).
It really is a absolute and total shambkes, who knew eh ?
Imagine, its not totally ridiculous that Tories would recognise the SNP as the official opposition
John MacDonald (who is a thug IMHO)
I went to see John McDonnell speak in Manchester a couple of months ago. He's really not a thug. He's quite the comedian though, and also very frank in the way he speaks. Add those two together and you get lots of opportunities for the media to spin what he says in a very negative light. He's actually got some quite forward looking and radical ideas about economics which are worth looking at.
I did find that statement he made last night amusing
[i]They have been plotting and conniving. The only good thing about it, as plotters they’re **** useless.[/i]
But then you could extend that to cover the entire labour party, and everything they try to do
It really is a absolute and total shambkes, who knew eh ?
As opposed to the old boy network and opaque back room dealings... that's of course far superior.
As opposed to the old boy network and opaque back room dealings...
Not got much knowledge of Unions then.
cranberry - Member
...They would, of course have to set up a new structure, but would be likely to get the funding recently denied to the old party because it has been taken over by the Uber Nutters...
And who would be providing this funding. Foreign billionaires?
Poor old Jezza getting PMQ wrong yet again - but the suit is better and the boss joke was a good one
Just seen Heidi Alexanders response to John McDonnell's 'joke'
[i]God, this is awful. John, I resigned because the whole operation was f*#$ing useless not because of a plot.[/i]
Imagine, its not totally ridiculous that Tories would recognise the SNP as the official opposition
I agree that its not totally ridiculous its completely ****ing ridiculous. Jambyland is stranger than I thought
Let's not forget a Labour MP was murdered recently ....didn't hear the right wing voters being condemd as a violent collective afterwards.....
Indeed its almost as of their is double standards at work here.
Imagine, its not totally ridiculous that Tories would recognise the SNP as the official opposition
I'd imagine the Tories couldn't possibly be happier than they are with the '[i]opposition[/i]'* they've presently got
* The word 'opposition' is used figuratively in this instance, and does not reflect any actual opposing, as its a bit busy eating itself at the moment
Plus ca change
It's not really surprising (the double standards and stereotypes)...Tory policy is based upon stereotypes... benefits scroungers, doctors being greedy, disabled people not really being that disabled and should work, immigrants being deviants, teachers being moaning wingers and cannot do their jobs etc..
Which one is the nasty party again?
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/13/corbyn-endorsed-bullying-by-voting-against-secret-ballot ]Corbyn endorsed bullying by voting against secret ballot[/url]
Another rather unpleasant aspect of this whole charade (which again is reminiscent of the 80's style Militant left) has been the air of barely suppressed violence, and thinly veiled threats that are surfacing against anyone who dares to question the Glorious Leader.
Its anyone that doesn't agree with them...look at the behaviour at the last Tory conference, spitting at delegates arriving each day.
Which one is the nasty party again?
The one you support that is full of ****s and bigots
Corbyn endorsed bullying by voting against secret ballot
The NEC are elected representatives of the party. The party[ who voted for them] has a right, as we do with MP's to know who voted in what way. Its called accountability rather than bullying. Unless you hate corbyn so much you only operate in smears rather than reason.
Ive kind of swayed back and forth on this
Corbyn is the kind of principled genuine politician that, doesnt stand a hope in the modern media driven world
His inner circle of advisors seem shadowy and a bit paranoid
He lacks verve and charisma, he was a non voice in the referndum campaign
It looked like his time had come, maybe he could be persuaded to step aside and let a better candidate take control
but at the same time, wtf? the PLP have behaved like children, they are so desperate to emulate Blair's success that they think thats the only way
Turns out that corbyn and co were right to be paranoid, the PLP are just another bunch or careerist powerhungry douchebags whod stab their own grannies for a taste of power. They are basically torries, without the 1922 comitee totalitarian control of the party.
The more I see Angela Eagles empty platitudes about being a unifier or Kinock/Bens jr trying to claim to speak for the party of equal opportunity for all,
The more I hope Corbyn is the last man standing in all of this
4 local elections and a mayoral have seen his party win and gain votes, hes got a network of on the ground campaigners willing to argue his case on the doorstep.
And his policies offer real hope to the dissafected outers of the former Labour heartlands, way more than the teflon Tory lite spin of the PLP or the racism and lies fed them by the UKIP, the press barons and the post truth policies of Vote Leave Tories.
look at the behaviour at the last Tory conference, spitting at delegates arriving each day.
It really wasn't an acceptable way for Cameron and Osborne to treat Boris, was it? 😀
Eh? Who's more nasty? Corbyn (supposedly) endorsing bullying versus a party creating policies that send people into poverty and commit suicide to allow other sections of society get richer?. ..let us all ponder that one....
The one you support that is full of **** and bigots
Labour then
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/local-news/what-happened-when-gillian-duffy-met-900168
sorry she left the Party due to Corbyn
https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/politics/gordon-browns-bigoted-woman-quits-labour-jeremy-corbyn/
Let's not forget a Labour MP was murdered recently ....didn't hear the right wing voters being condemd as a violent collective afterwards.....
One the act of a single person who had deep seated and long term mental health issues, the other a disorganised campaign by multiple people to instil fear into anyone who doesn't toe their extremist line in the Labour party.
Something I admire about Jeremy is his unerring ability to always be half a step away from his terrorist friends and the bullies of Momentum. He never stoops to getting his own hands dirty and he always remembers to half-halfheartedly almost condemn them. Yet still he attracts them, like flies around shit.
He never stoops to getting his own hands dirty and he always remembers to half-halfheartedly almost condemn them. Yet still he attracts them, like flies around shit.
Guilt by (loose) association. File under "cobblers".
Getting back on the topi of basic competence, one of the bearded messiahs newly appointed shadow ministers was just asked on Five Live why, since the referendum result, the labour party hasn't said a single solitary word about what they would like a UK out of the EU to look like? What the labour party leadership thinks should happen now? What form the negotiations should take?
His answer....
"I don't have an answer to that"
Brilliant! Inspiring stuff! Gets my vote!
Something I admire about Jeremy is his unerring ability to always be half a step away from his terrorist friends
You are insane.
How could a lifelong pacifist be friends with terrorists? It makes no sense.
You are wilfully misinterpreting a single line. Very poor.
Didn't some in the Tory party bully an activist to his suicide? Shapps resigned iirc
So @cranbery what do you say about the Tories cosying up to China for business , when China have serious human rights issues? Do you turn a blind eye to that? How about the arms deals your Tory party does? Turn a blind eye there too....I expect so...keep slinging your stuff at Labour whilst ignoring your own parties problems...just politics innit...
****s sake this thread is just right wing folk making excuses for a murderer and then overstating the degree to which Corbyn supporters are a brutish rabble
It is nothing more than folk using facts to back y their prejudices as risible a "debate" as stw can produce summed in in this big pile of polemic tabloid tosh
One the act of a single person who had deep seated and long term mental health issues, the other a disorganised campaign by multiple people to instil fear into anyone who doesn't toe their extremist line in the Labour party.
Jesus can we actually have some grown up debate here rather than just going I hate corbyn well I hate the tories 🙄
binners - Member
Getting back on the topi of basic competence, one of the bearded messiahs newly appointed shadow ministers was just asked on Five Live why, since the referendum result, the labour party hasn't said a single solitary word about what they would like a UK out of the EU to look like? What the labour party leadership thinks should happen now? What form the negotiations should take?His answer....
"I don't have an answer to that"
Brilliant! Inspiring stuff! Gets my vote!
This is what i find so frustrating. I have no idea what Labour's policies are on anything. I know that Corbyn wants to fight injustice, and i agree with most of what he says, but where are the proposals to make this happen?
binners - they've drawn up some 'red lines':
Mr McDonnell said: “Our aim must be to ensure freedom of trade for the UK businesses in the EU and freedom of trade for EU businesses in the UK.“Second: no EU citizen currently living or working in the UK will have their residency rights affected, and no UK citizen currently living or working in the EU will have their rights affected.
“Third: existing protections at work, provided by the EU, must be maintained.
“Fourth: the UK’s role in the European Investment Bank should be maintained.
“Fifth: rights of UK financial services and companies to win business across the EU must be maintained.
“Any path through the negotiations that does not respect these guidelines will be liable to have severe consequences for jobs and protections at work.”
But to be honest - you seem quite happy for the MPs to be fighting him rather than helping him, but then can't understand why he doesn't have time to do other things.
I wouldn't be surprised if they spent a good long time thinking about Brexit, but the press haven't bothered to ask him anything about it - they're too busy saying "Will you resign", "Will you be on the ballot", "Did you throw a brick at Angela", "Are you an antisemite", "Did someone block Tom from entering your office", etc, etc.
How could a lifelong pacifist be friends with terrorists? It makes no sense.
I was asking myself that a year or so ago and did a bit of googling. AFAICT he was friends with the IRA because they're a bit Marxist and he was friends with Hamas and Hezbollah 'cos they are opposed to Israel.
This is what i find so frustrating. I have no idea what Labour's policies are on anything.
I don't think any right minded person would disagree with any of Corbyns goals, such as they are. But its like when they ask a Miss World contestant what they'd like more than anything and they say 'world peace'
The problem is that he's spent his entire life opposing everything. Just saying no. And now he's being asked for alternatives, for answers, he hasn't got a clue where to start. You haven't heard any policies because there are none. Nor will there be while he's at the helm.
That's how the press want to play it. They don't want you know what his policies are. The only time they show an interest is when it's divisive in the Labour Party - i.e. Trident, Syria.I have no idea what Labour's policies are on anything.
They don't want you know what his policies are.
Well I want to know, perhaps you can link to them.
AFAIK Labour don't have a new policy on Trident, their formal position is the original one from the Milliband Era. I might be wrong.
That will be an interesting one to watch - that was Corbyn trying to appease front benchers. He probably doesn't have to consider that side of party as much at the moment.AFAIK Labour don't have a new policy on Trident, their formal position is the original one from the Milliband Era. I might be wrong.
binners - they've drawn up some 'red lines':Mr McDonnell said: “Our aim must be to ensure freedom of trade for the UK businesses in the EU and freedom of trade for EU businesses in the UK.
“Second: no EU citizen currently living or working in the UK will have their residency rights affected, and no UK citizen currently living or working in the EU will have their rights affected.“Third: existing protections at work, provided by the EU, must be maintained.
“Fourth: the UK’s role in the European Investment Bank should be maintained.
“Fifth: rights of UK financial services and companies to win business across the EU must be maintained.
“Any path through the negotiations that does not respect these guidelines will be liable to have severe consequences for jobs and protections at work.”
So... to summarise.... everything to stay exactly as it is now please?
Ironically, if he came out and said that, then I'd vote for him, and I suspect a lot of other people would too. Might well get him into power, that 😀
That will be an interesting one to watch - that was Corbyn trying to appease front benchers. He probably doesn't have to consider that side of party as much at the moment.
Hang on, you're claiming knowledge of current Labour Policy, and you specifically cited Trident as a policy that had be publicized because it's decisive.
So spill the beans, lets see all this policy the press don't want us to know about. Where is it?
So... to summarise.... everything to stay exactly as it is now please?Ironically, if he came out and said that, then I'd vote for him, and I suspect a lot of other people would too. Might well get him into power, that
Personally, I think there should be a GE with every party adopting that.
Whoever wins gets a mandate to ignore the referendum, problem solved.
...but the irony of Bennite Brexiters advocating remain just sums up the insanity of the recent campaign where many of the big players were arguing a case they didn't believe in.
AFAICT he was friends with the IRA
Link?
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11924431/Revealed-Jeremy-Corbyn-and-John-McDonnells-close-IRA-links.html ]Link[/url]
Divisive not decisive 🙂 So I said the press [i]do[/i] want to raise it.Hang on, you're claiming knowledge of current Labour Policy, and you specifically cited Trident as a policy that had be publicized because it's decisive.So spill the beans, lets see all this policy the press don't want us to know about. Where is it?
It's currently as you said - from previous conference - to maintain "continuous at-sea nuclear deterrent". But there will be a free vote in parliament. I can't see the official policy changing until conference.
I'm not a member of the Labour Party btw and have never voted Labour - just following with interest.
Do we know who Judith is yet? Her email was a masterpiece. Does she post/lurk here?
Well - except you can have a 3KW vacuum cleaner - I mean that's what everyone wanted wasn't it?So... to summarise.... everything to stay exactly as it is now please?
Corbyn was opposed on Trident by the some of the unions, not just the PLP. The unions were split on this one, as the ones that represent the Trident works are for and others against.
Those IRA 'links' are pretty tenuous, and the Telegraph article is a hatchet job.
One of the things it cites is a letter from a reader of the magazine ffs.
Those IRA 'links' are pretty tenuous
This is your question:
How could a lifelong pacifist be friends with terrorists? It makes no sense.
This is my answer:
I was asking myself that a year or so ago and did a bit of googling. AFAICT he was friends with the IRA because they're a bit Marxist and he was friends with Hamas and Hezbollah 'cos they are opposed to Israel.
Telegraph article is a hatchet job
Of course it is.
cites is a letter from a reader of the magazine ffs
A magazine which Jeremy Corbyn happened to be General Secretary to the Editorial Board.
The evidence is good enough. Militant lefties visited IRA meetings etc. They didn't do the same for Loyalist terror groups so asking the question "Why pick the IRA?" is reasonable.
I'm pretty sure Marxism is the link, and I can't find an alternative reason. Certainly Molegrips hasn't suggested an alternative reason.
Those IRA 'links' are pretty tenuous, and the Telegraph article is a hatchet job.
Isn't it just? I tried my best to read it as it was posted by mefty, I wouldn't have bothered had been ninfan or Jamba, I thought it might have been a serious article. I gave up about after the first few paragraphs.
Example : [i]"The editorial board of a hard-Left magazine, of which Mr Corbyn was a member, wrote an article praising the Brighton bombing."[/i] If that was the case prosecutions would have followed.
Another example : [i]"It can also be revealed that in 2004 Mr McDonnell, now Labour’s shadow chancellor, was given a special award by Sinn Fein"[/i] Sinn Fein is a legal organisation which a quarter of voters in Northern Ireland vote for. They are freely allowed to stand in Westminster elections.
I stopped after that.
I'm pretty sure that it wold be opposition to the Torys support of loyalists if there was a link
A top RUC officer raised the issue of paramilitary collusion personally with Margaret Thatcher but his concerns were ignored, an explosive new documentary will claim.Former head of Special Branch Raymond White said that the message he received from the then Government on the use of agents in the dirty war was "carry on - just don't get caught".
I stopped after that.
If you had read further, you would have seen the article in question is reproduced and the quotes are all there.
My problem with Corbyn past associations with the IRA/Sein Fein and Hamas and Hezbollah is that his explanations show at best a remarkably incurious mind, at worst a wilful blindness to their methods.
Do you have a problem with the author of the article, Andrew Gilligan, being a paid employee of a terrorist state ?
[i][b]"Lest we forget, the man is a paid employee of the Islamic Republic of Iran. He hosts his own show on the state-funded English-language Iranian broadcaster, Press TV."[/i][/b]
[url= http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/mehdi-hasan/2010/11/andrew-gilligan-islamism-press ]The truth about Andrew Gilligan - The Telegraph man’s links to Iran.[/url]
Can you imagine the reaction if it was reported that Corbyn had hosted his own show on Iranian State TV? 😆
Can you imagine the reaction if it was reported that Corbyn had hosted his own show on Iranian state TV?
Although he hasn't presented a show on it, he was quite happy to paid quite significant sums to appear on it according to his register of interests.
EDIT: I missed your point.
A magazine which Jeremy Corbyn happened to be General Secretary to the Editorial Board.
A situation about which you know nothing. But still
MAKES YOU THINK, EH?!
🙄
Self moderated.
🙂
When you have had a friend assassinated by the IRA, it does make you think.
I'm sorry about your friend. But - actually, not sure. Can you elaborate?
I'm sorry your friend was assassinated by the IRA. However I don't think that is anymore relevant than if Corbyn had a friend who was assassinated by Loyalists or the British army.
So anyway getting back to Andrew Gilligan who likes to smear Corbyn, surely the fact that both Gilligan and Hezbollah have received Iranian state funding proves beyond doubt Gilligan's guilt through association?
Luckily for Andrew Gilligan despite being a rather powerful man, more than most elected politicians, who can break politicians, manipulate public opinion, and influence elections, he never has to worry about being elected to anything.
Power with no accountability. Lucky ol' Gilligan.
Corbyn has always been anti-establishment so he's a natural conduit for the IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah, Cage etc. Its very rare for politicians to engage with such orgnanizations so he is a goldmine. Now I think he does so with good intentions but he is deeply misguided in this conduct as he allows his position as an MP to be misused. This is magnified 100 times over now as leader of the Labour Party. You can see this is his continued connections with people who hold extreme views such as being strongly homophobic or deniers of the holocaust.
With regard to abuse and intimidation we are seeing here in the UK what I see regularly in France in that it is the hard left, particularly the youth who are by far the greatest protagonists. Angela Eagle today signed a pledge as a direct challenge to Corbyn to do the same to ensure those campaigning for her will do so with respect and decency.
The Huffington Post has picked up on something I and others have been saying from some time that Corbyn is a magnate for the extreme left and he is turing a blind eye as it suits him politically
[url= http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-socialist-workers-party-workers-liberty-green-party-entryism-leadership_uk_57829343e4b074297db34303 ]Entryism[/url]
When yer struggling bring up this nonsense... don't engage.
"Corbyn has always been anti-establishment so he's a natural conduit for the IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah, Cage etc."
I don't really buy that as a sole reason. It would be a hell of a coincidence if the only terrorists groups he had contact with just happened to support causes he supports. I'm still going for Marxism/Israel.
Now I think he does so with good intentions but he is deeply misguided in this conduct as he allows his position as an MP to be misused
That.
I suppose the question has to be.. Are the right wing idiots that we see on here representative of the wider electorate?
Cos there are some proper flipping weirdos here and that's undeniable
Did you see C4 news and the NEC member reduced almost to tears!!!
My problem with Corbyn past associations with the IRA/Sein Fein and Hamas and Hezbollah is that his explanations show at best a remarkably incurious mind, at worst a wilful blindness to their methods.
I think he knew they were terrorists . They did not keep it very secret as that is a really really rubbish way to be a terrorist.
I think his view was that in order to secure peace you need to talk to the enemy.
Can you remind me how we secured peace in NI?
"Did you see C4 news and the NEC member reduced almost to tears!!!"
I did. I think JC was spot on though, if the procedure is for a public vote then that procedure should be followed.
If she's receives 2000 abusive mails that's a job for the police.
Did you see C4 news and the NEC member reduced almost to tears!!!
I did not, is it as per @outofbreath above ?
2000 abusive emails are a job for Police [b]and[/b] the Labour Party under its duty of care.
I think the point she was making was that people on the NEC were genuinely fearful for their personal safety and JC opposed a secret ballot.
Smith promises second EU referendum.. interesting... Someone had to come out and say it.
She was also in tears on Radio 4 World at One this lunch time.
"We had threats" (of legal action if Corbyn not on the ballot)
Boris Johnson is now Foreign Secretary.
Its at times like this you wish the 2 warring factions of the labour party didn't ironically resemble a Malcolm Tucker quote....
"Oh.... Laurel and ****ing Hardy! Glad you could join us. Did you manage to get that piano up the stairs OK?"
😥
Good to see Tom Watson getting some nice funding coming through to help him run his office.....
political expediency
That's what I meant - it's a political play. But he's the first person to come out and say it - which is a little surprising given how pro-remain most MPs are (or were).
[quote=CaptainFlashheart ]Good to see Tom Watson getting some nice funding coming through to help him run his office.....
£200k
Nice work, errrr, comrade.
I think the point she was making was that people on the NEC were genuinely fearful for their personal safety and JC opposed a secret ballot.
Yup, that was her point.
But I'm still with JC on the topic. If the NEC usually vote in public, that should be maintained in spite of threats. You can't change the rules for thugs.
Nice work, errrr, comrade.
Do you reckon there was a whip round?
Baxter's C4 interview (from 4:45) what's particularly shocking is she voted for him to be on the ballot but she still received much abuse and Corbyn does nothing to quell it. Platitudes are worth nothing without action
[url= http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-up/display/playlistref/130716/clipid/130716_4ON_LABOUR_PAB_1307 ]C4 news - Labour[/url]