Well I do look forward to reading his alternative deal, I'm sure he has put a lot of thought into it.
The 2016 referendum was a simple concise question. Do you want to be IN or OUT of the EU. The question was simple and clear. The answer was simple and clear. The fact that you have some other vision is neither here nor there as far as the validity goes. I didn’t like the result of the 1975 vote to go into the EEC trading group. I just sucked it up and got on with life.
I’m afraid I find the fanatical willingness of a minority of my fellow citizens to force a legitimate majority of us to live under the rule of a foreign power we have roundly rejected to be repulsive and fascist in nature. Maybe when you grow up you will realise that life doesn’t always go your way. Maybe you will also realise that others, including stuck-up members of the upper class like JRM, have a right to say what they think.
Your first paragraph argues for the point I was making
Aside from the other minor details but lets give up on that for now.
Care to explain what Rees-Moggs offering is and how it meets the "will of the people" better than Mays offering?
May’s deal is EU membership by another name.
It really isnt.
The 2016 referendum was a simple concise question. Do you want to be IN or OUT of the EU.
Which Mays deal complies with. Apart from, somehow, you have redefined that to not be. Not quite as simple as you make out is it?
Maybe you will also realise that others, including stuck-up members of the upper class like JRM, have a right to say what they think.
Who is saying that they dont have a right to say what they think?
Personally I think it would be better if politicans were open and honest and said what they think.
Of course the flipside of people saying what they think is we also have the right to judge and respond to those thoughts.
May’s deal is EU membership by another name.
But it isn't though is it?
billyboy, is norway in the EU? How about switzerland?
If you take a journey from her Lancaster House speech to the deal she eventually put on the table, it is a sell out to the EU.
She is a Remainer and she sold out before she started by firstly agreeing to the EU’s format for negotiations, and secondly by totally refusing to put in place serious measures for a ‘no deal’ Brexit.
The EU was never going to deal with us on an honest and decent basis. They were always going to try and punish us for having the audacity to reject their rule. Had she put serious measures in place for a no deal it would have given her leveridge. And to accept sorting out how much we were going to pay them before she established what, if anything, we were going to get in return was supreme negligence.
Or it was a deliberate ploy to mess the process up and make our exit fail.
The basic problem beyond the wounded screams of the losers on this Forum and elsewhere, is that Parliament is peopled by a majority of Remainers who always were going to try to stop the people’s will being implemented.
I voted labour last time. I hastened to add that the candidate I voted for was anti-Corbyn. I couldn’t stomache voting for anyone who seriously favoured a career terrorist supporter and anti-semite! Similarly I coukdn’t Find it in my heart to vote for the Conservatives when they’ve brought the infrastructure of this country so low. But if JRM is speaking out for the majority of us who want to get out of the EU against the bulk of the establishment who want to frustrate that, then I’m ok with that.
The 2016 referendum was a simple concise question. Do you want to be IN or OUT of the EU.
And so far hundreds of people have come up with a different version of out that none of them seem to be able to agree on, none that will even get close to a majority of the people who wanted to leave let alone the rest of the population.
JRM and his palls seem to have decided without asking anybody what their version is, they have also ignored some small things like reality too.
Maybe when you grow up you will realise that life doesn’t always go your way.
That's some top level satire right there. Well played sir 😆
If you take a journey from her Lancaster House speech to the deal she eventually put on the table, it is a sell out to the EU.
I think most of us predicted that before we voted - people seem to have filed that one under project fear....
She is a Remainer and she sold out before she started by firstly agreeing to the EU’s format for negotiations, and secondly by totally refusing to put in place serious measures for a ‘no deal’ Brexit.
We are the junior partner in those negotiations, what did you expect? Do you think by flouncing about things would have changed?
The EU was never going to deal with us on an honest and decent basis. They were always going to try and punish us for having the audacity to reject their rule.
The EU has rules and is based on certain principles, they were up front and honest about that. UK politicians foolishly promised the UK people that the EU would roll over on these - guess what they won't.
The basic problem beyond the wounded screams of the losers on this Forum and elsewhere, is that Parliament is peopled by a majority of Remainers who always were going to try to stop the people’s will being implemented.
All we are asking for is a simple outline of the way forward - leave has still not been able to do that. Instead they keep saying no to everything and refuse to do any of the hard work - We have had a series of Leave supporting Brexit secretaries who have all failed.
I voted labour last time. I hastened to add that the candidate I voted for was anti-Corbyn. I couldn’t stomache voting for anyone who seriously favoured a career terrorist supporter and anti-smite!
Ah you bought into the bull shit then. Do you know ninfan?
But if JRM is speaking out for the majority of us who want to get out of the EU against the bulk of the establishment who want to frustrate that, then I’m ok with that.
Hang on was their another survey to find out what people meant by leave? Pop the link up so we can keep up.
IN or OUT..... that is the reality nay-sayers cannot grasp. OUT is not sort-of staying, cake and eating it. It’d be nice to have a deal, but when you are dealing with the brick wall that is the EU, then it was never assured. Varouflakis told us that from the start and he was right. Even that buffoon Trump knew that! It is not a healthy organisation. And there is every indication that it is in deep trouble. OUT is good.
IN or OUT….. that is the reality nay-sayers cannot grasp. OUT is not sort-of staying, cake and eating it
Can you provide the special definition of "IN" and "OUT" you are using? Since under any normal definition Maybots offering counts as "OUT".
Even that buffoon Trump knew that!
Or possibly he, and you, are wrong?
Now are you going to provide any sensible arguments or just keep trolling?
Leave is not in charge. Remainers are in charge. Put Leave in charge and the project would go foreword rather better. Put King Charles I in charge and you have the mess we’ve got!
What is your plan for Ireland?
Who or what is ninfan?
Even that buffoon Trump knew that! It is not a healthy organisation. And there is every indication that it is in deep trouble. OUT is good.
Ah a true fan of the populists...
Trump and the US know the EU are a powerful organisation who can put checks and balance on the US much better together than they can as individuals - see how they responded with very targeted tariffs as which are hurting the US to defend the EU member states being caught in the crossfire between the Trump and China.
I voted labour last time. ... Similarly I coukdn’t Find it in my heart to vote for the Conservatives when they’ve brought the infrastructure of this country so low.
EDL or BNP might be a good choice next time then 😉
PS May is a Leaver that pretended to be remain. That is why she was so desperate to deliver "Brexit means Brexit" at any cost and overrule parliament at any step.
And the 101% full out with raising the drawbridge and having nothing to do with EU at all is an extremeist minority, not the majority voice of the people.
Apologies for troll feeding.
Put Leave in charge and the project would go foreword rather better
Apart from as repeatedly pointed out the Brexit ministers have all been brexiteers.
Also lets not forget all the ERG report which was, ermm, special.
Good to see you starting on the stab in the back myth though.
When leave is in charge..... Now where is his toblerone, Brexit Bulldog Out.
I’m not in charge Chris. JRM asked Verhofstad if he was going to put up a border. Verhofstad said he wasn’t. We are not going to either, so where is the question? The argument is over a border nobody is going to erect!
But how will we stop the immigrants from getting in?
The Brexit ministers have all been sidelined. We all know that. Remain have rigged the game.
billyboy. Thats a song from the North of 2 borders.
Andytherocketeer
Black is white.
It is the biggest problem we face in the modern age.
You are Trump.
OUT is good.
Potentially it could be, but lets do it in a way that doesn't screw up the economy for a large number of people, at the moment only May's deal allows that and if it's not good enough the process should be delayed till we have a plan that works for as many as possible. In fact it shouldn't have been triggered till all parties ( or even just the party in charge) could agree a route forward.
You might be "I'm alright jack" when it comes to no-deal but millions won't be, the people in charge of the process know this and the people running businesses that need access to the single market also know this. JRM, Boris, pensioners will be just fine and are quite happy to risk no-deal. It's easy to gamble when you're sitting on millions, or mortgage free with a decent pension.
IN or OUT
Shake it all about.
"IN or OUT….. that is the reality nay-sayers cannot grasp. OUT is not sort-of staying, cake and eating it."
This gnomic "Brexit means Brexit" type of line is like the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. If the UK leaves the EU on anything other than the speaker's terms, then the speaker gets to say, "ahh, but that's not reeeally Brexit..." But if it's so clear what Brexit means, why didn't have Brexiteers have a program for executing it once they won?
The UK is going to leave the EU but some people are going to build a reality distortion field around themselves to say it's still inside.
the rule of a foreign power we have roundly rejected
Exactly how being a part of a Democratic Assembly in which the U.K. has the same right as any other nationality therein, to put it’s case and argue it’s corner, is “the rule of a foreign power”, escapes me.
I suspect you’re a bit of a dimwit.
No offense.
@billyboy - the Brexit ministers resigned. The game may have been rigged by selecting 2 useless people to do that role.
Has anyone considered that May could be some kind of Machiavellian genius and will use bluster and brinkmanship to deliver a we're staying in result? She could be so amazing that the current deal, albeit worse than staying and the no deal, which is worse again end up with us doing nowt. She could then give Boris, Gove etc two fingers
Me neither, they all do a great impression of being incompetent.
Any back to Jacob, my crowdfunding Dignitas approach is looking more sensible minute by minute....
@billyboy If you think Rees Mogg is fighting against the 'establishment' then you're seriously deluded. Rees Mogg is as 'establishment' as anyone I can think of. He's an Old Etonian FFS, not Che Guevara.
JP
Yes, but.... if you ask an entire country if they are willing to be ruled by a confederation of foreign states (out of 751 seats, we have 73- it is de facto rule by foreign states), and the majority decision is NO, then the emphasis must be on getting OUT. The imperative is to make sure we are not ruled against our will by this confederation of foreign states. Yes, try and sort all the other things out, but getting out is the priority.
But if JRM is speaking out for the majority of us who want to get out of the EU against the bulk of the establishment who want to frustrate that, then I’m ok with that
Yeah what's blocking the brexit you want is the utter failure of the Brexiteers to come up with a plan to make it work, May's deal is a shambles, but it's the only one on offer because the brexit they promised you is undeliverable.
We can't keep the benefits of membership after we leave, whatever Mogg & co told you.
Keep blaming THE ESTABLISHMENT if it makes you feel less foolish for putting your faith in conmen like Mogg, but sadly for you unicorns don't exist.
and the majority decision is NO, then the emphasis must be on getting OUT.
Right then, whats the plan? I mean you do have one don't you?
IN or OUT….. that is the reality nay-sayers cannot grasp. OUT is not sort-of staying, cake and eating it.
How wrong you are. In 2016 remainers were clear and unified on what they wanted, which is still the case. A continuation of the 4 freedoms was at the heart of their vote. When ANY deal is struck which removes even one of those freedoms, I am sad to say but that is Brexit.
Not a single remainers thinks that the removal over their right and others right to freedom of movement is a case of having their cake and eating it.
Theresa May has secured the right to restrict freedom of movement. If Brexiteers are not happy with this they will never be pleased.
You are Trump.
ahahaahahahahaahahahaahah
Trump's the 2nd biggest * after JRM
David Davis was Secretary of State for leaving the EU. He did the square root of f all for 2 years. I hope he pays back that minister's salary for that period.
The best thing about Brexshit is that I now know which (former) friends are extremist farage buttlickers.
JRM is the elitist of the elite. All he cares about is his assets, ironically offshored to haahaha the EU. He's a user. He's using you and using the "they stole our jobs".
The man’s a socket.
I don’t understand the appeal to his ‘fans’ it’s like someone said “design me a caricature Tory Toff, you know the type they’ve been trying to hide for decades” they did, and somehow some people like him, it’s utterly bizarre that people actually think that a multi millionaire city boy from the industrial revolution has the interests of anyone but himself at heart.
After 2 years I still don't understand what Brexit supporters thought and had planned regarding the trading, customs arrangements, practicalities, technology and infrastructure arrangements with the EU at the Ireland/NI border would entail.
After being so intertwined with the EU for 40 years I reckoned removal from it would have been extremely challenging at every turn. Does anyone suspect that when putting the cross against leave, voters may have been ignorant to this and other trifling problem.
PS don't expect sensible discussion from someone who chooses the username "billyboy". Ask your Scottish or Nirish friends why.
I am in Scotland and wondered about the user name. Could be a genuinely unfortunate coincidence.
Does anyone suspect that when putting the cross against leave, voters may have been ignorant to this and other trifling problem.
It's been fairly obvious by the way people still believe people like JRM who use their air time to simply declare it's all just people being awkward and it's so obvious we can just do what we want, probably then head off home to play land of hope and glory at full volume.
You are not much of a Saxon, Saxonrider! A true Saxon would be on top of Senlac Hill bashing his shield and shouting “Out, out, out”.
Do you have any idea how wrong that it? This is PRECISELY the problem with so much of what I have heard in this debate. History has been completely misconstrued and mis-cast.
The whole European world at the time was very Rome-focused, with free interaction between Rome, Gaul, Britain, Ireland, and Hibernia, happening all the time.
Indeed, the closest Saxon parallel we can draw to the current argument around Europe is the Synod of Whitby of 663, at which the British decided to go with Rome instead of being insular.
Exactly Mike. 'Nebulous' about sums it up. You just want to speak out slowly.
''W H A T...D O... Y O U... W A NT..... A N D.......... H O W..... D O....Y O U.. .S U P P O SE...I T.. C A N.....B E...D O N E?????
SR stop bringing facts to this. What we want is more
Is that not the Scots Greys? OK, admittedly, charging the French at that point in time but come independence that'll be pretty much what our army looks like...
So whoever said he said good stuff and he thought he was alright has failed to present any evidence of that. How strange….
It's a forum not a court of law . Do you ask any of the people who agree with you to prove what they say or just me because I disagree with all of you apart from billyboy who is doing a good job of arguing his corner .
