Is the UK a Christian Country?

Oi Charlie. I said;

People who identify themselves as atheist have, in my experience, at least actively considered the question, as opposed to a lot of people who call themselves Christian…

You then said;

CharlieMungus – Member
People who identify themselves as Christian have, in my experience, at least actively considered the question, as opposed to a lot of people who call themselves Atheist…

How is this not ‘fixing’ or misquoting my post? I can see the point you’re trying to make, and although I completely disagree, it’s not anything that can be easily evidenced, so best to just stick an ‘in my experience’ on the end of it…

No- agnosticism is the belief that there may be a god, it’s a step away from the default position of no belief at all.

“Not believing in god” isn’t a belief, any more than “not kicking a football” is a sport. Which is a shame because that’s a sport Scotland could be great at.

I kinda see what you mean and it’s a position which i can respect. However, i find it hard to understand fully. Underlying your position must be some belief. I don’t want to push you to a position, but how do you answer the following

1) do you believe there is a god
2) do you believe there is no god?

How is this not ‘fixing’ or misquoting my post? I can see the point you’re trying to make, and although I completely disagree, it’s not anything that can be easily evidenced, so best to just stick an ‘in my experience’ on the end of it…

I was making my own post, that’s how. Is that clearer?

As far as anybody reading this forum is concerned it is.

Well, that’s their failing, not mine.

But whatever. If I’m stating something as fact then I’ll back it up with evidence if I can. I fail to see why I need to do this for opinion, however.

1) do you believe there is a god
2) do you believe there is no god?

Easy – I do not believe in the existence of any gods. I am an atheist. thats what the word means.

An atheist does not believe – there is no belief behind the position. Its about lack of belief

Can you answer each question separately?
Preferably with a yes or no, but really it was northwind i was asking

Edit… Oh and i am amused by the way you say ‘easy’ then fail to answer the questions directly.

CharlieMungus – Member

However, i find it hard to understand fully. Underlying your position must be some belief.

Nope. TBH I don’t know why this is a hard thing to get to grips with.

1) do you believe there is a god
2) do you believe there is no god?

1) No
2) No

nick1962 – Member

Will you stop and help a fellow rider in trouble?
Yes?
That’s one of the tenets of Christianity and I’m pretty sure that most people on here have an ethical belief and value system based on Christian principles.

Woah there. You’re half correct. Yes, it’s a christian belief. But, of course it’s not a christian exclusive. It is christian to help one another; that doesn’t mean that to help one another is christian. Pre-christian humans were cooperative.

1) do you believe there is a god

No

2) do you believe there is no god?

Meaningless question. I do not believe in the existance of any gods – you cannot believe in the absence of something.

Will you stop and help a fellow rider in trouble?
Yes?
That’s one of the tenets of Christianity and I’m pretty sure that most people on here have an ethical belief and value system based on Christian principles.

Bollox. It works in non christian countries and for non Christians as well.

Morals predate Christianity and are wide spread beyond Christianity. Does no one help others in say Malaysia? Or China? or India? How about Tibet?

Northwind

Not in any way claiming it was exclusively Christian or that they invented it,far from it but I reckon it was the first major Western religion/philosphy to expound it as it’s credo.
The Persians,Eygptians,Greeks and Romans never helped you out if you got a puncture 🙂
Oh and they all also had slaves…

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[2][3] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3][4] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[5][6] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists,[6][7] and with agnosticism, which leaves the matter of existence open.[8]

The term atheism originated from the Greek ????? (atheos), meaning “without god”, which was applied with a negative connotation to those thought to reject the gods worshipped by the larger society

1) do you believe there is a god

No
2) do you believe there is no god?

see above same question unless i can believe there is no god and also believe in a god [ should be some mileage in that for you Dr 😉 ]

EDIT:

Oh and they all also had slaves

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.’ If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. “But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given.” (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
etc

but I reckon it was the first major Western religion/philosphy to expound it as it’s credo.

right – so what about Tibet? China?

Thats such a narrow minded viewpoint.

TJ

Posts crossed.
But Tibet and India….really? Where the religious hierarchy dominated just as much as in the West if not more.

2) do you believe there is no god?

Meaningless question. I do not believe in the existance of any gods – you cannot believe in the absence of something.

Course you can, i believe there is no such thing as a flying spaghetti monster

Or try ths,

I’m telling you there is no god, do you believe me?

Junkyard – he is trying to show that athiesim is based on belief that gods do not exist – whearas ita based on not believeing gods exist. Trying to show that atheisim is a belief based system

TJ

Posts crossed.
But Tibet and India….really? Where the religious hierarchy dominated just as much as in the West if not more.

Yes but you are trying to claim that helping others in need is a Christian thing – which is just complete nonsense. many cultures have a belief in helping others.

I specifically said Western to differentiate from the religious and cultural development elsewhere.

TJ
No I’m not
I said- I reckon it was the first major Western religion/philosphy to expound it as it’s credo.
Anyway I am sure it’s all just a question of semantics and deep down we are all singing from the same hymn sheet 😉

Still an outrageously patronising and unpleasant viewpoint. You are denigrating those who are not Christians. Morals exist despite christianity not because of them. Morals predate christianity.

Its offensive to suggest that anyone can only behave well because of christianity.

Junkyard – he is trying to show that athiesim is based on belief that gods do not exist – whearas ita based on not believeing gods exist. Trying to show that atheisim is a belief based system

No, not trying trying to show that. Trying to get you to explain

There is no explanation required. I do not believe in gods. thats all there is to it. Its not a belief in a negative. there is no place in my consciousness for belief in the supernatural. ~Atheism is the absences of belief in gods – not gods not god. there are many gods worshipped on this planet.

Do you believe in Shiva? Bhudda? Thor? Odin?

No, i don’t.

I also believe they do not exist

What about you?

Surely ‘belief’ is simply to regard your personal opinion as ‘fact’ in the absence of absolute proof (or something)…

I know but i am just being “sporting”

his view can be argued pretty well logically but it is BS. At best IMHO you can claim I have a belief in empiricism and what it finds but I dont have beliefs associated with “truths” or what this method finds. I just have a “belief” in how to find these truths [ eliminate infinite error] Faith maximises error and claims it as a strength – then again it needs to because it is false and even those who believe will entertain doubts.

I dont have faith as you can prove me wrong with data

I think Buddha existed

Can yo not read or understand. I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ANY GODS.

Oh, sorry, yeah, believe in buddha, he existed

Can yo not read or understand. I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ANY GODS.

I get that bit, it’s the other bit which you seem unable to answer, you keep banging on about what you do not believe, that bit is clear. The thing i want ro know is if if you think there are no gods

Happy to help ,purely in a pre Socratic philosphical kinda way and not in any way wishing to upset Eastern mysticism fanboys 🙂

nick1962 – Member

Not in any way claiming it was exclusively Christian or that they invented it,far from it but I reckon it was the first major Western religion/philosphy to expound it as it’s credo.

Christianity isn’t a western religion. But that’s a bit nitpicky maybe, so instead lets point out that judaiism pre-dates christianity.

his view can be argued pretty well logically but it is BS.

My view? I dont think i have expressed a view in this context

At best IMHO you can claim I have a belief in empiricism and what it finds but I dont have beliefs associated with “truths” or what this method finds. I just have a “belief” in how to find these truths [ eliminate infinite error] Faith maximises error and claims it as a strength – then again it needs to because it is false and even those who believe will entertain doubts.

Let’s not conflate ‘belief’ and ‘faith’ rather stay with belief for now

Charlie
Seeing as noone else wants to play ball…
I do not believe in god(in the sense of some omnipotent being).
I do not think there are any gods either.
Does that help?

Yes nick, thank you i’m glad the question is not as difficult as it appeared to be.

Northwind

And Judaism (and the Old Testamaent and all that eye for an eye stuff that TJ quoted earlier -the established religious status quo is what Jesus challenged.BTw he got some of his main ideas from an older magic mushroom eating Jewish cult…or so I am led to believe Nag hammadi and all that

CharlieMungus – Member

The thing i want ro know is if if you think there are no gods

I think that it’s likely there are no gods. I do not believe that there are no gods.

Yes and it was the Jews who Jesus lectured to about the Good Samaritan

Nope. TBH I don’t know why this is a hard thing to get to grips with.

1) do you believe there is a god
2) do you believe there is no god?
1) No
2) No

Ok, thanks for this NW.but this is whybi sadimit sounds more like agnosticism. I guess it is atheism in the truer and less commonly seen sense. I know it’s not agnosticism, but it has that scope for possibilites, and it is quite different from saying there is no god.

Charlie – your second question is meaningless and semantically null. there is no meaningful answer to it.

“Do you believe there are no gods” is not eh same as “do you think there are no gods”

I know there are no gods. Belief does not come into it.

Atheism is not believing in gods. that is all it is. lack of belief in the supernatural.

CharlieMungus – Member
The thing i want ro know is if if you think there are no gods

I think that it’s likely there are no gods. I do not believe that there are no gods.

😀

Cheers, i get you now, In a strange reversal, this time i was asking TJ!

you cannot believe in the absence of something.

If someone presents you with an empty tray, and sez ‘do you believe there are any pies on this tray?’, you can of course answer ‘No’ and be right.

If someone presents you with an empty tray, and sez ‘do you believe there are no pies on this tray?’, you can of course say ‘Yes’ and also be right.

🙂