Hi does anyone know of a decent injury lawyer, preferably one that you don’t have to pay, no win no fee, etc I have the impression that most of them are cowboys and first time we have used anyone like this. Wife got burnt whlst in hospital giving birth and hospital are just dragging their feet. Not even willing to offer for her to see a burns consultant even though it happened 6 months ago and scarring is still really bad. In a round about way they have admitted that it’s their fault but not willing to do anything to sort things out. Don’t really like the idea of suing the NHS but they are taking the p*ss.

Best tell us where in the country you are, mrsmidlife runs such a band of ambulance chasers and they are as highly respected as such people can be, they have PI and clin neg depts.

What do you think suing will achieve? Was someone negligent? Can you prove it? Is it really worth all the fuss an dbother – it will be stressfull.

Dunno what a burns consultant will do after 6 months burns scars can take years to fade and assuming its healed than there is nothing to do but wait or skin graft

Towels and boiling water? I thought that only happened in westerns.

Burnt giving birth ? WTF. Did they brand the missus instead of the sprog ?

Baptism of fire?

We are in Bristol and don’t necessarily want to sue the NHS but want to be in a position that if things get worse and my wife decides she wants something like plastic surgery to hide the scarring then she is in a position to have it carried out. Basically they screwed up and have never offered any way forward or advice/help. Burn scars may take years bto heal but don’t want an upset wife in 2/3 years and it is then to late to do anything about it. Agree accidents happen but this was negligence by the facilities contractors. They are the experts and are in the wrong so should at least offer a way forward to resolve things

6 months and you think of sueing , you should have made a formal complaint straight away, then followed it with legal action, but be prepared for a long stressful fight, 2 or 3 years possibly.

So how did the hospital manage to give such serious burns to your wife ?

woody – I don’t know what you think a consultant can do now

We’re in Yorkshire, so not local enough for you. Hope you get sorted, if you can’t find one local, PM me and I’ll get a recommendation for you from one of the APIL guys down your way.

Basically wife fainted after a c section and her shoulder touched a radiator. Nurse was there and they say she only touched it for a couple of seconds, but she has a large severe burn over her shoulder. 6 months later it is still very visible and certainly isn’t fading. I don’t know about you but I have never before heard of radiators that are so hot they burn within a couple of seconds. Basically some one in facilities wasn’t doing their job and radiators in places like hospitals should be checked regularly and more often than not covered.

project how do you know he didn’t make complaint a formal straight away ? Sounds to me that he did : “hospital are just dragging their feet” Why would you expect him to sue straight away ?

http://www.nhs.uk/choiceintheNHS/Rightsandpledges/complaints/Pages/NHScomplaints.aspx

Not thinking of necessarily suing, made a complaint at the time but it has taken them 6 months to reply. Just want some legal advice as to what, if anything we should do next.

TJ your right we are not sure what a consultant could do now, that’s the point of seeing an expert. Person sly I know nothing about burns and how they heal or not.

Basically wife fainted after a c section and her shoulder touched a radiator. Nurse was there and they say she only touched it for a couple of seconds, but she has a large severe burn over her shoulder. 6 months later it is still very visible and certainly isn’t fading.

Ouch! Not what you expect when you’re in such a situation.

Woody, all radiators should be covered there have been serious cases of older people being burnt by falling/lyeing against hot radiators.

No project – there should be a risk assessment in place. Ther is no obligation to cover all radiators

Given what you say I really wouldn’t bother suing. It will be a huge amount of stress for little or no gain and your chances of winning will be poor Facilities will blame the nurse saying she would have been there a while to get burnt, the records will not have a time span in them, the nurse will not be sure how long, you will be very hard pushed to find any particular bit of negligence.

Seriously – I don’t think its worth the stress.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/sectors/public/070709.htm

and

http://www.coverad.co.uk/legislation.htm

The risk assesmernt should have shown there was a serious risk of a burn, and action, must be taken to avioid any injury.

Thats right – needs to be risk assessed and any reasonable and practicable steps taken

For example “Where the patient or resident is under adequate continuous supervision, compliance may not be warranted.” from your links

People that work in healthcare are not allowed to catch patients who are falling.

I fail to see how you would have a case.

project – Member

The risk assesmernt should have shown there was a serious risk of a burn, and action, must be taken to avioid any injury.

How do you know this? I know very many health care situations without low surface temp raditors

Seriously – I don’t think its worth the stress.

How does holding them to account and ensuring that it doesn’t happen again not make it worthwhile ?

Go for it woody74 and do us all a favour. Ignore TJ, I suspect it’s just an example of industry professionals closing ranks. I’ve never understood that attitude – I won’t ever defend cock-ups in the construction industry – exposing them does everyone a favour.

Ernie – its my advice having seen this sort of situation.

If I thought there was real negligence and a decent prospect of a worthwhile outcome I would say go for it. in this situation I think the case is weak and the stress in chasing it high.

Make a formal complaint, invoke the ombudsman but I see legal action as a huge stressful waste of time

One question that will be asked is why was your wife out of bed?

TandemJeremy – Member

project – Member

The risk assesmernt should have shown there was a serious risk of a burn, and action, must be taken to avioid any injury.

How do you know this? I know very many health care situations without low surface temp raditors

Posted 4 minutes ago # Report-Post

Obviously by very good luck nobody has been burnt yet,and if they doi get burnt let us all hope they are popursued to the extent of the law, and heavily fined, for serious neglignece.

Best to print the following PDF and send it out to them , before they get closed down then

http://www.hfs.scot.nhs.uk/publications/PSAN0416.pdf

Ernie – its my advice having seen this sort of situation.

So you’ve seen this happen before……it’s a regular occurrence ? 😯

Won’t someone complain ffs ?…… no one should expect to be burnt in hospital.

Project – how is it negligence if the advice you quote suggests

Where the patient or resident is under adequate continuous supervision, compliance may not be warranted

for example.

do you actually read your links – that PDF is about faulty low surface temp radiators. Nothing to do with the installation of low surface temp rads 🙄

From the other guidence

Risk assessment

11 A risk assessment should be carried out to identify potential risks of burning from hot surfaces

There is no legal requirement to use low surface temp raditors.

There is a requirement to risk asssess and to tke all practicable and resonable steps to avoid burning

Ernie – no but accidents do happen and from what I know it will be very hard to show negligence and it is very stressful to sue.

This doesn’t sound like an unavoidable accident TJ – it sounds very avoidable. And if you are suggesting that in the NHS, of all places, failings cannot be easily identified, with all the consequences that has for their re-occurrence, then quite frankly I’m gobsmacked.

well as a heating specialist i have given professional evidence regarding the surface temperature of radiators that i have been asked to test.
it is the case that the unprotected surface of metal radiators do get hot potentailly to as much as 99 degree C on modern household system the highest surface value i have recorded in such a system was 79 I would speculate that most hospital systems are un pressurised and thus open vented they would not achieve anything like those temperatures and due to the sheer size of the system i would speculate that a surface temperature under 50 would be much more likely. having said that direct sustained contact with water at 55 will certainly scold in the above quoted Scottish report a temp of 43 is quoted. 43 will not scold water at 43 is very warm and does not normally show ‘steam’ as it comes from a tap you d need a water temp much closer t0 50 for that to happen.
ps the quoted guidance means diddly squat its for another country..
pps as for who to sue there you have another issue. the hospital aka the nhs will certainly provide documentaion to the effect that they employ a highly qualified business to fulfill that role and cannot be liable whereas the business will do the same so you may be down to bill and bob who could say they did there job well but an unexplained/ unforseen event occured.( aka an accident)

No – I have said 3 times. I think it will be very hard to show negligence. Not the same thing. Not all avoidable incidents are negligent.

it will have already been dealt with from the point of view of identifying failings and putting in place measures to prevent them in future. This is a prerequisite of any injury accident. there will have been an investigation done.

Its just that like many incedents in the NHS ( and outside) there is a chain of errors and prooving a particular action was negligent adn caused the injury will bew very hard.

Why did she faint? Why did she end up on the radiator? Why was the radiator that hot? why was she not removed from the radiator that quickly? who is responsible for each of these things? Was she properly supervised? Who alowed her to get up?

Negligence is a complex thing and it can be hard to show. From what we have been told here I think the case is weak and the possible benefits of suing are low thus my advice is its not worth the stress.

this is an example of why I believe in no fault accident investigations in the NHS

Why did she faint? Why did she end up on the radiator? Why was the radiator that hot? why was she not removed from the radiator that quickly? who is responsible for each of these things? Was she properly supervised? Who alowed her to get up?

All good points, we appear to have a chain of negligence here, sue them for everything 😉

it will have already been dealt with from the point of view of identifying failings and putting in place measures to prevent them in future.

With respect, you have no idea at all whether this has been done – the first you knew about this incident was when woody74 posted this thread. The fact this should have happened, does not mean that it did happen – woody74’s wife should not have got burnt, but she did.

With respect ernie I know how the systems work . Its extremely unlikely that an injury incident would occur without it being reported, all reports will generate an investigation. Its a very robust procedure.

Seriously – I don’t think its worth the stress

I do, sorry, to be blunt then she was neglected by a member of staff who was supposed to be looking after her, she now has scarring due to this.

The hospital are dragging their feet(not really a surprise) I would get a lawyer involved and then maybe the hospital will pull their finger out and arrange some treatment for her burns and scarring.

This does not seem to be a case of an idiot falling over and trying to claim for something they may think they deserve

With respect ernie I know how the systems work .

I assume that injury lawyers do too. And since woody74 is looking for a no win no fee one, why are you so concerned about him getting “stressed” ? Presumably you think a no win no fee lawyer won’t touch it – or don’t these guys know how the system works ?

IMO as a Health and Safety Manager, the hospital may well have failed in their duty of care to your wife. If you see a solicitor, they will send a letter to the hospital asking to see (amongst other things) the risk assessment, maintenance records, training records, safe systems of work and the accident investigation. With these you can start to see if you have a case. If the hospital doesn’t have these, you basically win by default (no defence).

I spend a lot of my time writing risk assessments, it’s not hard to envisage a situation where a person getting out of bed could faint, particularly after an operation. In which case it’s not unreasonable to make an effort to ensure that if a person does faint they don’t contact with anything which could injure them. Now, there is obviously more we need to know in order to establish the level of negligence. The control measure might be that the patient is instructed not to get out of bed unaided and your wife might have ignored them for example.

My experience in dealing with personal injury claims from the employers position is that if an injury has actually been suffered then the claim is usually successful, after that the amount of damages paid out is dependant on the level of the injury and the amount of mitigation the responsible party can put up.

There is clearly a LOT more to it than this, what I’m writing is just a bit of a ramble after having got home from a safety training session for our night shift, but I’m really surprised at the line TJ is taking. He usually champions the rights of the individual against the mighty organisations, it seems that may not apply when the mighty organisation is the one he works for.

Anyway, in short go and see a solicitor. Forget the no-win, no fee people, most reputable solicitors will offer a free half hour consultation and they will give you an idea if you have a good case and if it’s worth the stress (it will be stressful, the NHS solicitors will defend vigorously and make it all out to be your fault, you will need a thick skin).

Bottom line is you don’t go to hospital to get injured.

but I’m really surprised at the line TJ is taking. He usually champions the rights of the individual against the mighty organisations,

Because I think the case is weak and the stress is not worth pursuing it. I have encouraged people to go after NHS incidents in the past. Even if successful the remedy is small. You might get an out of court settlement because the injury is so small.

, most reputable solicitors will offer a free half hour consultation and they will give you an idea if you have a good case and if it’s worth the stress

Good advice.