enfht – Member

Hora is everyone who drinks alcohol an addict as well? Have you spoken to anyone about your bigotry?

Alpin sounds like your textbook functioning addict tbh. Or at the very least, incredibly habituated. Addict’s an alarming word but addiction’s out there all over the place, what matters isn’t the tickbox, it’s how you live with it.

FWIW, I love cannabis & really wish it was legal in the UK. It should be available on prison canteens at least.
We don’t get weed in UK prisons anymore because it can be tested for quite easily & cheaply, also the remnants/evidence/residue or whatever It’s called can stay in the body for up to 30 days.
Everyone’s on ‘spice’ now which is screwing people up beyond belief.
You lot however, won’t hear about that or even give a shit.

So it should be legal because if it’s not people will do something worse?

Drugs in prison is a failing on so many levels. That it’s crap enough at stimulating rehabilitation that inmates resort to psychoactives for escapism, that security is sub par to name a couple.

But legalising one thing to prevent something else? There’s probably a million straw men to be had there in other examples, but why would legalising weed help in prisons help any situation, with the possible reason that they’d just be high/stoned for their sentence which doesn’t sound either productive or punishing, why not just offer them sedation to make the time pass quicker too?

I can’t help but feel you’re getting a very easy ride from the STW ‘cool’ kids, one would assume that if it had been a drink drive issue you may not have the same.

No, I don’t think he was likely to be impaired at the time of testing.

World Anti-Doping Agency classifies THC as a performance enhancing substance – By this yardstick would not a professional racing driver get banned for trying to gain an unfair advantage? But for the civilian motorist THC is being cited an impairment and thus as irresponsible and dangerous?

But legalising one thing to prevent something else? There’s probably a million straw men to be had there in other examples, but why would legalising weed help in prisons help any situation,

Why not legalise it to prevent something else? I work as a ‘screw’ & see what happens every day. Have you any idea at all of the problems that NPS causes? I do, but why don’t you tell me.

By this yardstick would not a professional racing driver get banned for trying to gain an unfair advantage? But for the civilian motorist THC is being cited an impairment and thus as irresponsible and dangerous

Presumably because it’s not considered a good idea that “civilian motorists” drive like professional racing drivers.

Decreased anxiety and fear might be a good idea for professional racing drivers but personally I would prefer that other road users maintain a healthy level of anxiety and fear.

Why were you stopped?

Was an Allgemeineverkehrskontrolle, better known to us as a random stop. no reason to stop us as such.

2nd link down…

Random stop…. We had just cleaned the van, drove 100m and the Cop car was behind us. Totally random
Asked him whether it was because of my driving or something with the van,but no.

Random stop…. We had just cleaned the van, drove 100m and the Cop car was behind us. Totally random
Asked him whether it was because of my driving or something with the van,but no.

Good chance the stop was “intelligence based” then. Sounds like they were waiting for you.

Random stop…. We had just cleaned the van, drove 100m and the Cop car was behind us. Totally random

Random stops are something we should adopt in this country, they’re quite common in some mainland European countries.

Good chance the stop was “intelligence based” then. Sounds like they were waiting for you.

You sound paranoid, smoking too much maybe…

Good chance the stop was “intelligence based” then man. Sounds like they were waiting for you dude.

You sound paranoid, smoking too much maybe…

I’ve never smoked dope – not even when I lived in Holland. I did however also live in Bavaria and random traffic stops didn’t seem all that common. Certainly not ones where they’d go as far as a piss test. What can happen is that someone has smelled dope from the OP and had a word with the police, who’ve then followed up with a pseudo-random stop.

We really should have crowdfunded this to pay the fine or just buy some more dope…

I think i passed the “close your eyes touch your nose/close your eyes bring your finger tips together/walk along a line one foot in front of the other”.

If it’s any consolation, I’m pretty damned certain I’d fail that stone cold sober!
A g/f used to gently mock my lack of poise and balance!
She had taken ballet lessons for years and karate as well, but she had a valid point. 😀

FWIW, I love cannabis & really wish it was legal in the UK. It should be available on prison canteens at least.
We don’t get weed in UK prisons anymore because it can be tested for quite easily & cheaply, also the remnants/evidence/residue or whatever It’s called can stay in the body for up to 30 days.
Everyone’s on ‘spice’ now which is screwing people up beyond belief.
You lot however, won’t hear about that or even give a shit.

Really? There’s been stuff about it on the news in recent months, it’s certainly no surprise to me.
But also, why should I give a shit? It’s the responsibility of those in charge to stop the access to such things in prison.

Can you juggle tho

[video]https://youtu.be/XRbZtCTzMg8[/video]

do the dutch have an issue with stoned drivers? Or the Portuguese?

the only research I have seen on cannabis and driving showed little but some detriment – far less than drink driving. Perhaps a similar level of impairment to driving when tired. Also the mistakes tended to be less dangerous ones – such as driving too slowly, stopping at green traffic lights that sort of thing. The problem with post crash testing is that you cannot separate out cannabis from other stuff they have in their system as polypharmaceia is common or having had a drink as well. Drink and cannabis is a deadly combination on the roads tho. Even levels of drink that would be legal, when combined with cannabis makes for significant impairment

As for the powers that be keeping drugs out of prisons – you think they don’t try? Its an impossible thing to stop and along with the synthetic spice there is also a significant heroin problem as heroin only is detectable for a very short time, cannabis for weeks. and you need a far smaller quantity of heroin so its easier to smuggle in. So bored inmates take heroin as its far less likely they will be caught.

ON driving there are two issues – driving whilst impaired and driving with above a certain level in your blood. I believe in England now there is roadside testing for cannabis and other drugs and there are prescribed limits but its really not clear if you are significantly impaired at the limit.

I have seen stoned drivers pass the impairment tests easily

Even astronauts get stoned
[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Al3zQWAAQ3E[/video]

We were warned about the dangers of spice at “the talk” given at my son’s school when he entered y9 I think it was. An ex copper who said to hope that your son gets into weed because it’s far less dangerous than legal highs and especially spice.

thing is there is only a market for these “legal” ( no longer) highs because of our stupid prohibition laws.

Look at the dutch and Portuguese experiences to see that being relaxed about cannabis leads to far less problem drug use.

Maybe, or maybe there’s a difference in the culture? Clearly we have problems here with abuse of a quite legal drug – I’m sure we’re not unique in that, but neither is it a universal problem.

Portugal went from a very punitive approach to complete decriminalisation – and a few years in the problems with drugs in their society is much less than it was.

Prohibition and “the war on drugs” has failed. A harm reduction and healthcare based approach is proven to reduce problems with drug use.

Some of you lot would love it over here. Get caught with a trace in your system and it’s pretty much an immediate 12 month driving ban with 3 monthly testing throughout the ban. Fail a test and your ban starts again. Miss a test and it goes out another 3 months…….

One of my team got done about 10 years ago. Had to tell me as he sometimes has to drive cars on the public highway for work. This meant it had to go on his file, it’s just a tick box, yes or no for vehicle/factory gate access. Probably 95% of the people in the company have a no. But because his changed everyone wanted to know why. HR, my boss, factory manager, everyone who could see the change, most of them wanted to sack him. Including the guy who was still on a suspended sentence for alcohol related violence….. not his first either.
In hindsight, I’d have just changed his work orders so he didn’t have to drive.
AFAIK he had 8 “random” drug tests in the two odd years he still worked for me (all passed). No one else had any, out of a dozen or so.

the only research I have seen on cannabis and driving showed little but some detriment – far less than drink driving. Perhaps a similar level of impairment to driving when tired. Also the mistakes tended to be less dangerous ones – such as driving too slowly, stopping at green traffic lights that sort of thing

They must have been either using very weak cannabis or biased research then, in my own very limited experience leaving a motorway service area via the entry slip road & riding a motorbike convinced that you have a puncture but not stopping because you don’t want you pillion to realise how stoned you are = pretty impaired & dangerous.

I did once see some proper acedemic research on this but can’t find it now
I apologise for the mail link but IIRC the site changes it. NOt hugely good research but gives an idea. Of course these people were concentrating on driving well – its possibly the lack of concentration that causes issues so this test will not be reliable.

“Then Evans started driving. After smoking the small amount of pot, he was more than five times the legal limit with a reading of 26 nanograms but drove normally.

Underberg also measured above the limit with a 21.7 nanograms. But his driving, while a little slower than normal, was excellent, Jackson said.”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2281102/Drivers-stoned-road-test-evaluate-Washingtons-marijuana-DUI-laws-entertaining-video.html

Fifth gear also did some testing with the same results. Can’t find the video

Alpin, easier said than done but worrying will not change or help in the slightest – so don’t. Occupy your head by planning for the worst and expect that to happen. Chances are it wont come to that but if it does just execute your plan. Pinkies crossed for ya maaaan!

p.s As a recent member of the non-smoking gang (6 weeks or so) i had conducted many of my own tests over 25+ years. My conclusion matches tjagain somewhat – on the odd occasion i drove after a smoke (several hours after btw) i drove like i’d just passed my test. Slow steady and even did the passing the wheel through the hands thing on corners that i never do. This sedate pace was coupled with many years of driving/observation experience (in car/bike/motorbike) so i believe i was driving better. You might argue that my brain was addled (and i could fly etc) that’s why i thought like this, but i don’t believe this to be the case. I’m sure if measured accurately, my reaction may have been slightly slower than normal – but i was driving a lot slower/smoother than normal (and i generally smooth anyway (queue the swooning 😀 ). Not because i couldn’t go faster – i was happy going slow and trying to be the perfect driver. In the right dosage (weak) it made me concentrate more. I didn’t attempt to drive if heavily stoned.

Or maybe you were doing like some drink drivers do and overcompensating to try and hide the fact you had been smoking weed.

Drac – yes he probably was being more cautious because he had been smoking – but both the test I posted above ad the fifth gear test showed that unlike drunk drivers stoned drivers drove reasonably well and cautiously. co ordination is not impaired until you reach very high levels. a similar test with alcohol showed obvious impairment even below the (english) limit

The blood levels were brought in in the UK at least because even folk who were obviously stoned did not fail the impairment test. I have seen this for myself while working with the police. I think it is right that there is a blood level – it gives objective evidence. However what is not clear at all is what the levels should be. I think these are far too low but of course that is my opinion only.

on the odd occasion i drove after a smoke (several hours after btw) i drove like i’d just passed my test. Slow steady and even did the passing the wheel through the hands thing on corners that i never do. This sedate pace was coupled with many years of driving/observation experience (in car/bike/motorbike) so i believe i was driving better.

I know several drinkers who argue the same 😯 but I prefer your…

You might argue that my brain was addled

Anyway OP good luck with sorting the dependency out. That seems to be the most important issue as others have noted already.

I know very little about weed, but I’d perhaps posit that:

a) Comparisons with alcohol are probably unhelpful, a straw man even. They’re different drugs with different effects.

b) I’d have thought that the best objective judge of degree of impairment is the person using the drug? It’s almost Dunning-Kruger, the nature of an impairment is that it also impairs your ability to analyse / recognise it.

Could be wrong on both counts, just my idle musings.

Everyone’s on ‘spice’ now

How on earth is it getting in in sufficient quantity that “everyone” is on it? I can sort of understand it in dribs and drabs, surreptitiously palming it during visiting or something. But this would suggest it’s happening on a much larger scale?

Something else I know little about I suppose, my only knowledge of the prison service is based on Prisoner: Cell Block H.

(and WTF is spice?)

spice is a very potent synthetic cannabinoid that until recently was legal to sell.

Drugs are regularly brought into prisons by a variety of methods – from someone “plugging” some ie concealing it in a body cavity and deliberately getting locked up ie having a warrant out for them and then presenting at a police station then going into jail and selling it / passing it to the boss to drone deliveries to throwing it over the fence to almost anything you can think of.

drone deliveries

😯 Seriously? Wow.

Yup http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36302136

all the kids are on Spice now.

Totally pointless comparing it to alcohol to weed, different drugs with different laws.

Drones is for posh prisons tennis ball over the wall is far more common. Privatisation of prisons means low staff levels so the wardens can’t control the drugs getting in.

A couple of interesting documentaries on iPlayer about Spice and Prison.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07prjfm/life-inside-wandsworth-prison

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p03ny2n5/the-last-days-of-legal-highs?suggid=p03ny2n5

hmm, obviously no sympathy for anyone driving while impaired by drink or drugs, however if the THC test really does test for historic use rather than how ****ed up you are at the time of testing then that’s a pretty messed up test.

I spoke to a few lads yesterday who have been in a similar situation.

One heavy user who had 7ng in his blood, received massive fines and a two year ban. The whole ordeal ended up costing him around 200,000€ when lost earnings are taken into account.

I’ve got a few recommendations of lawyers who specialise in drug driving. Will try and get an appointment with one of them before the test results come back. Want to be prepared.

One idea floating around my head is to go along to the town hall and deregister and disappear from Germany.