I’ll put my hands up. I’ve been a regular user of cannabis for over 15 years.

Never had any trouble with it until tonight.

Driving through town in the van and got stopped. Had to give them a piss sample which came up positive which meant I got a ride in a police car to the hospital where they took some blood.

Because my piss was positive they then got a warrant to search my flat. To avoid my place being torn apart I volunteered my stash. Hopefully they are not too interested in the ~1.5g (but this being Bavaria I’ve heard horror stories of people having to pay thousands for <1g, but the fact i cooperated should help me here)

If my blood results come back negative, i.e. up to 0.9 nanogram of THC in blood, then I’m OK.

However given my usage it isn’t likely to be so low unless I’ve an amazing metabolism.

If the result comes back between 1-4 nanogram I can expect a hefty fine and a short driving ban.

If, however, it comes back at over 4ng then I won’t be driving in Germany ever again. It would probably mean upping sticks and finding somewhere new to live.

Has anyone any experience of this…?

I’ve now got approx three weeks of worry.

My fear is that I smoked 3 doobies yesterday, and at least once everyday (if not more) for the past 2 weeks.

What is the likelihood of my blood THC content being below 4nanogram?

*never drive when stoned/on the day I have had a smoke. Used to over ten years ago, but not anymore.

No idea about the numbers I’m afraid but you do have my sympathy fwiw. I’d far rather we outlawed booze (much as I love it) and inlawed* a bit of weed.

*sort of made up word.

Genuine question – why are the limits/penalties set where they are?

Assuming the limits are set to penalise people who are driving while high, then I’d hope you’d be OK, but no experience, and I’m just guessing. Best of luck. No point in worrying as what will it achieve?

I have absolutely no idea of the answer to your question but found it intriguing enough to do a search (such a random question to ask on here!). This seems to suggest that you might well be lucky :

Concentrations of parent drug and metabolite are very dependent on pattern of use as well as dose. THC concentrations typically peak during the act of smoking, while peak 11-OH THC concentrations occur approximately 9-23 minutes after the start of smoking. Concentrations of both analytes decline rapidly and are often < 5 ng/mL at 3 hours.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/research/job185drugs/cannabis.htm

Good luck.

Hard lines alpin – that sounds traumatic and I hope it works out for you. How could they take the pish – were you driving erratically or something?

Do you know if they test for thc direct in your blood? If so then I would tentatively guess you would not be hitting 4ng from smoking some weed yesterday.
If it’s a test for thc metabolites (usually an acid derivative that has been oxidised in the body), then it’s more complicated, as a weed-monster such as yourself has these compounds on tap from where they reside in your fat tissues. It’s controversial to do this, as you could get a positive hit from smoking days or even weeks ago. So it depends what the test is looking for.

Wow…. Was expecting a backlash.

Was an Allgemeineverkehrskontrolle, better known to us as a random stop. no reason to stop us as such. Van is clean and tidy, paper work all correct.

I suppose a limit needs to be set.
The limits are rubbish anyway. High levels of THC do not mean that you are still stoned. Just shows the regularity of usage. There are “per se” THC amounts (i.e. That what is still actively running around your system making you stoned) and active THC levels (ironically not actively making you feel high, but the residue in your fat cells).

The active THC is what they test for but it’s not an indication of you being high or not.

@ Ernie, my googling threw up something similar along with a horror story of some guy who had smoked regularly for over 10 years whose THC levels were over 20nanograms.

Whilst I have nothing to help constructively, I add my sympathy & hope everything works out OK. I enjoy the occasional session (used to be far more) but since working offshore with the worry of possible random drug testing it’s not worth it although I am up for redundancy so might have to overindulge soon. I fear the hand wringing and naysayers will come out in the morning for you on here though 😉 Good luck fella

Hopefully the fact I cooperated and willingly have them my stash goes in my favour with regards to prosecution for possession.

If my results are over 4ng in stuffed. I’ll be looking for a new country to call home. Being a self-employed carpenter means I need my licence/van to get to jobs and lug tools /supplies around.

Bugger.

Interestingly there are lots of articles arguing that THC tests with regards to the ability to drive are useless and not capable of being able to determine whether someone is fit to drive or not.

I think i passed the “close your eyes touch your nose/close your eyes bring your finger tips together/walk along a line one foot in front of the other”.

Without trying to come out all “holier than thou” about it, if those are the limits (and you knew them) and you need to drive for your livelihood, why take the risk?

I’ll put my hand up to regularly driving a motorcycle whilst over the alcohol limit in my youth. I like to think I’m older and wiser now (one of those is definitely true).

Because it is not easy to regulate your intake.

We all know what one unit of alcohol looks like. It says on the product in most cases. Not the case with weed. And your metabolism plays a massive part in how quickly your body holds onto the THC.

And those limits for THC, cocaine or opium are not common knowledge. I had no idea until the copper told me what was allowed or not.

He even said I can smoke, but best leave it three/four days until getting behind the wheel.

I’m sure that per 1000 more accidents are caused by alcohol than any other drugs. Probably more accidents due to alcohol than all drugs combined.

Wow…. Was expecting a backlash.

Well I don’t approve of the use of narcotics, I don’t much like alcohol either, but the last thing you need right now is to be lectured to and told that it serves you right. I genuinely wish you good luck.

I fear the hand wringing and naysayers will come out in the morning for you on here though

I hope not – it would be totally pointless and unhelpful, but I suspect that you might be right.

Ernie, my googling threw up something similar along with a horror story of some guy who had smoked regularly for over 10 years whose THC levels were over 20nanograms.

Yes but the link above which appears to be a thorough scientific article suggests otherwise ….. “Concentrations of both analytes decline rapidly and are often < 5 ng/mL at 3 hours”. There’s no point spending the next 3 weeks worrying about the worst possible scenario if you have evidence that it’s not typical.

Ah. I think that pretty much answers my question (Yes, I know that ignorance of the law is not an alibi….)

Driving whilst stoned is not something I have any sympathy with. Driving and being a user of cannabis is not any different to being a driver who drinks but hasn’t drunk IMO – so I’m not sure why anyone needs to get holier than thou about it.

The why isn’t cannabis legal thing is complex and I must admit I’m on the side of legalisation despite never being a consumer. Legally regulated cannabis would be so much easier to a manage in your situation as the content could be monitored and controlled – leaving you less concerned in your current situation.

Best of luck.

J

No sympathy here. You should be dressed as a goat and put in a field full of llamas! 😈

I may have missed it, but I can’t see how long before you were tested you last smoked? That’s the key isn’t it?

Silly thing to do if you knew the limits, it’s the same as driving the next day after drinking alcohol. Good luck but I’m sorry you took the chance so now facing the consequences.

relax and have a joint to calm yourself.

Haha….Nice one jekkyl….

Think it was about 20 hours between having a smoke and driving. Had also slept most of yesterday… (Stayed up till 4am watching the Olympics.)

Certainly wasn’t stoned or high.

@ Drac… No one i know knew the limits. As said above, the info isn’t common knowledge. even the copper said that he used to smoke and knows that driving the day after drinking four beers is much riskier than driving the day after you have had a smoke.

An ex of mine was convinced that THC is stored in your body fat and would affect you if you lost weight. Over the past 18 months I have lost about 1.5 stone and reduced my body fat, didn’t get stoned though for which I feel hard done by 😆

Hope it works out Alpin, didn’t realise they were so draconian in Germany.

If my results are over 4ng in stuffed. I’ll be looking for a new country to call home. Being a self-employed carpenter means I need my licence/van to get to jobs and lug tools /supplies around.

Why, just employ someone to drive and work on your jobs with you – obviously you’ll need to look for more work than at the mo to cover the costs.

And when up in front of the beak while pleading guilty tell them what you’ve done – may get off for less penalty.

Why were you stopped and had to give a urine sample? Is that normal in Germany?

Consult a lawyer. Do not try to represent yourself when dealing with police or prosecutors. Do not consult the internet for advice on important things.

Sorry to say this, but if you are banned from driving in one country thats you banned everywhere, they take your licence from you. I think. Worth checking into that one.

But then most folk don’t know when/how much they’ve been affected by alcohol either. If they did, fewer would drink and drive.

People claim the same with alcohol “Oh I didn’t think I’d be over the limit the next day”. What the copper said and the limits and risks of another drug is irrelevant.

Like I say good luck but the law was broken.

Best of luck, as said above get some legal advice.

When I was 20 I don’t think I ever drove and wasn’t stoned.

Certainly wasn’t stoned or high

So you think, obviously you are long term user and your body has got more used to the effects so just because you felt “fine” doesn’t mean you were. The effects of the drug could still possibly slow your reaction time. As has been said ignorance is no defence of the law, is cannabis legal in Germany?

I have very little sympathy for the I felt fine defence having seen aftermath of rtc’s of drugged and drunk drivers.

You may well lose your licence at least someone didn’t lose a life.

Maybe that’s the difference bruneep, we’ve dealt with the aftermath.

Hope it works out Alpin, didn’t realise they were so draconian in Germany Bavaria

Thanks, and ftfy….

Bavaria isn’t so forward thinking/liberal as other German states.

@ hels… Polizei say that if I were German/had a German licence i would be banned from driving for a year and would have to do a course, MPU- medical. psychological test. Basically go along at random intervals for up to 18months to give samples proving you are clean (Including alcohol). Since I’m not German they would give my licence to the DVLA and let them d decide what to do with it,but I would simply be banned from driving for life. If the DVLA habe new back my licence i would be free to drive in any other country.

@ nobeer….. Same here. Used to pre-roll one for the drive to work. Used to be able to roll one whilst driving. Not something to be proud of, I know.

As said, I’ve not driven (intentionally, at least) whilst stoned in years.

Feel sorry for you but you knew the rules.

I would just see a solicitor for advice Asap to put your mind at ease and prepare/plan should you need to.

not screwed you broke the law, drink – drugs no difference. Roads are dangerous enough without impaired drivers

Regardless of what you say about feeling fine, there must be an effect from long term regular pot smoking. you must have knackered reaction times? If the rules catch people driving at less than their best (whether hungover, tired, stoned whatever) then that’s a good thing. Sorry.

Regardless of what you say about feeling fine, there must be an effect from long term regular pot smoking alcohol use.

I’m fortunate enough to have a good friend who is a state prosecutor. Spoke to him yesterday and he said i was right to not kick up a fuss and to give them my stash.

He also has a good acquaintance who deals with this sort of thing from the legal side. I may contact him later.
Legal advice at the moment won’t help. First when the results are in will i seek professional advice.

What I’m hoping for is that someone drops in saying that with their experience I’m likely to be safe, i.e. 1-4 nanogram. I can afford to lose my licence for a month…. Eternity, less so.

However have just spoken to a friend who is a regular/heavy user who got stopped in Berlin having had a smoke just 3 hours before. He had to give a blood sample,head a month of worry until the results came back saying the THC content was too low to proceed further with him. Whether that is because they are more lenient in Berlin than Bavaria or because…. I don’t know. Whatever, but he got lucky.

My reaction times are good. I’m one the quickest out of our riding group and only one of three guys there that smoke.
Lots of people comment on how relaxing Mr driving is.

I think after years of usage my body has got used to it. Not a defence, i know.

🙄

I rest my case.

Nothing more to add.

I can’t help but feel you’re getting a very easy ride from the STW ‘cool’ kids, one would assume that if it had been a drink drive issue you may not have the same.

Regardless of the outcome, you haven’t suggested that you’ll change anything either…

agreed bruneep