[Closed] How do you ride off drops?

Kerbs!

Kerbs and remember you are pushing the front end away rather than picking it up

Start small, work up and then...braaaap!

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Compress front suspension at lip >

Oh god no

Unless you are rolling off a drop really slowly, trials style, then just roll the bike forward like you were pumping a pump track.

Drops are much easier than jumps btw, your bike will almost ride itself off a drop.

Just ride off the bloody thing.

I practiced.

Keep showing my son Fab's video which seems to be helping.

Then screams after faceplanting

Blimey what's up with you lot 8 posts in and no one has said I should send her to Jedi 😉
She won't go fast and telling her to huck won't happen.
So need to get a slowish technique dailled.

Going slow is the best way to hurt yourself, but if not, then she needs to learn to pedal hop. Which is way way harder to do.

I like arrive, just going a little bit too slowly, so i'm unbalanced, then as the front wheel drops over the edge, i'll stiffen right up, and have a panic grab of the front brake, and as the bottom bracket gets hooked up on the edge, i lunge over the bars, landing on my face at the bottom, and being joined by the bike, hitting me in the plums a few seconds later. classy riding 😉

Once she's learnt the push to unweight the front end off kerbs etc, the same is applied to drops.

Fast up to the edge then try and pick a line to roll down without really knowing where to be

Then jump towards the ground - arms outstretched -and await the bike landing on top of you

Just tell her to get her arse over the back wheel and the bike will do the rest. But start off with kerbs, then find some bigger kerbs........

Just tell her to get her arse over the back wheel and the bike will do the rest. But start off with kerbs, then find some bigger kerbs........

Definitely not the way to do it...

http://www.pinkbike.com/video/395962

mtbrill says you're all talking shite

I learned riding flat out off the steps at school on to the hockey pitch. I was just told by a mate to make sure the back wheel hit the floor first.

I'd probably shit myself if I tried to do something similar these days.

How to:

How not to:

The most useful thing I've ever heard on this topic is to imagine that you're pushing a shopping trolley off a cliff 🙂

Definitely not the way to do it...

http://www.pinkbike.com/video/395962

The funny thing about that video (which is definitely worth watching if you haven't) is that he really doesn't do too much wrong. The body positioning is OK and he looks quite comfy on the bike, but it goes so so wrong. He's just going a bit slow and fails to appreciate the slight rise on the lip.

In that situation where you feel the front end falling away there's not a lot you can do. The only option is pedal HARD and try and lift the front a bit, but it takes a reasonable amount of presence of mind to do that.

I appreciate you predicament SOAP - I find it very hard to teach things I 'just do'.

As far as I can tell it's the lack of active push. Sure the weight is back and the arms extended, but it's a static position rather than a push.

The way I was told to do it by a coach was imagine where you want your front wheel to be and then push it into that position. This unweights the front wheel and stops it dropping over the edge.

No, he's way to far over the back to early on - his body positioning is horrible. That meant the wheel dropped away from him.

I use the supermarket trolley push method. Biggest problem (of many) that I have is riding them cold. On about the third or fourth go I'm ok but that isn't very useful trail riding. Practice on everything; unweight the front wheel over twigs, stones, puddles then if a nice drop comes along there's a really remote outside chance I'm ready for it.

that stu fall show the issue with the lift IMHO

they lift the front wheel at a slow speed clearing the edge and them it is falling to the ground before the back even reaches the edge.

that pink video looks like he just rides off the eddge without doing anything at all but the weight is to far back

This sounds very similar to p20 and I. He just rides them and we have spent hours in the park doing manuals and he can't seem to get me to understand (my fault not his) - my front wheel has only ever lifted an inch!

Smaller drops like rocks or big roots you can just go into with arms nice and bent and push the front wheel down over it though, keeps you on the ground and nice and controlled, using your arms to absorb the drop in the trail.

Smaller drops like rocks or big roots you can just go into with arms nice and bent and push the front wheel down over it though, keeps you on the ground and nice and controlled, using your arms to absorb the drop in the trail.

Good point about smaller drops. Not that i'm 'Mr Drop' or anything, but i found the bigger the drop the less you need to push. Sometimes you've a bit of distance to travel and you'd want the front up for that particular bit. Pushing too much, too soon is probably up there with doing eff all in the main [i]reasons to crash on drops[/i] list.

if she learns best through reading, the vast variety of thoughts or variously talented riders, let this thread run and let her read it.

else send her to jedi

Hate to use the stw cliche of the skills day, but on a skills day we were doing a fast drop of about 50 cm perhaps, I did the usual push the bars away weight back thing to lift the front wheel over and got told off, and was taught to just lift the front wheel as you go over the drop, because its a small drop you land in a much better position to carry on charging rather than landing with your weight still back. Works nicely.

Hate to use the stw cliche of the skills day, but on a skills day we were doing a fast drop of about 50 cm perhaps, I did the usual push the bars away weight back thing to lift the front wheel over and got told off, and was taught to just lift the front wheel as you go over the drop, because its a small drop you land in a much better position to carry on charging rather than landing with your weight still back. Works nicely.

Who the hell told you that? You can still move forward again and shape the bike, even off 50cm drops.

On proper fast drops you don't even really need to push the bike that far out in front, just a little push and you can more or less stay planted smack in the center of the bike.

Who taught you that Jim?
Seems odd.
you can manual off a drop and still land perfectly centred both wheels at a time. or was this a beginners skills lesson?

where was the drop?

aah love it 🙂 it was a session from two former world cup downhillers, at innerleithen. it's obviously a fast small drop technique, the point being that you land so quickly after going over the drop you don't want your weight to be shifted back still. it's not lifting the front wheel up in the air like before you do a manual or the start of a hop, more cancelling out gravity pulling the front end down as you go over the drop. if that makes any sense.

aah love it it was a session from two former world cup downhillers, at innerleithen. it's obviously a fast small drop technique, the point being that you land so quickly after going over the drop you don't want your weight to be shifted back still. it's not lifting the front wheel up in the air like before you do a manual or the start of a hop, more cancelling out gravity pulling the front end down as you go over the drop. if that makes any sense.

Just squashing it then as per Peatys vid, it's just the way you described it that confused us.

Which drop? and what was after it?

Remember, when moving your weight back, don't do it too early

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But if you do, just start running, it'll be fine

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makes perfect sense to get your wheels down as quickly as possible on "some" drops. others not much. the actual drops could be really similar it's what's after them that makes most difference.
some you'll want to manual over
others push down
others pre-jump
others launch to the best landing.

NW. that dude's weight isn't back. he's squatted down instead. maybe he had a particularly difficult to remove tugnut 😉

is that you going for a run then?

His weight is back, as well as dropped- if you look, the front wheel's already dropping and he's rotating with the bike. I got the perfect view from immediately behind him 😆 His cog was way further back than mine, just that he put it there about 2 minutes too early, like he'd seen photos of how to drop but never a video.

@Jim, ye of little faith! (super mega bloody slow, though, I didn't want to ride over the dead frenchman)

[URL= http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i264/Northwindlowlander/P1030798_zps8c37e844.jp g" target="_blank">http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i264/Northwindlowlander/P1030798_zps8c37e844.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

Tom_W1987
No, he's way to far over the back to early on - his body positioning is horrible. That meant the wheel dropped away from him.

The crucial bit to remember, is once your arms are straight, they can't get any longer!
What i mean by this is that if you arms are locked straight out in front of you, if/when the front of the bike drops, then the handlebars pull on your arms, and your mass gets pulled forwards and over the bars.
And unless you got Mr Tickle arms, there will be NOTHING you can do about it. This is why it's so important to be properly centred and use a pump(linked to your speed, not the size of the drop) to dynamically unweight the front wheel, just for the period of time it takes for the rear wheel to get to the lip and drop off.
If you start too far back, too soon, it's only going to end one way. Unfortunately, the more scared of going OTB you are, the more you're likely to try to get back too soon, and hence the more likely you'll get pulled forwards and actually go OTB!

Have a look at Northwinds first photo, and you can see, that if the front wheel so much drops an inch, it'll be pulling the rider OTB!

in the first pic his weight is not properly back.
his cranks are level rather than rear pedal dropped. (which means he isn't pushing forward with his feet).
and his knees are bent too much. straighter would put his weight way further back.

classic 5:10/SPD poor footwork*

*Oh how I hate skillz course terminology but it's what folk here understand

in the first pic his weight is not properly back.
his cranks are level rather than rear pedal dropped. (which means he isn't pushing forward with his feet).
and his knees are bent too much. straighter would put his weight way further back.

classic 5:10/SPD poor footwork*

How much more back can you get, his arms aren't far from being locked out? That's way to far back already! How do some of you guys not end up like Michael Schumacher? 😀

if you can't manual. I wouldn't necessarily expect you to understand just how far back you can get your weight. if you can manual well. you should be able to hold your front wheel an inch from the ground while rolling. think about how far back your centre of gravity has to be to hold this.

@Tom- the real problem was nothing to do with where his weight was- it was when it got there. He moved back (and down) right back on the woodwork and rode off the edge like a statue so there was no push/weight transfer at all.

All credit to him though, he rode off down the hill despite being completely ****ed.

Who bothers to manual off drops at any half decent speed? That's a proper point and shoot drop if I ever saw one.

anyone who can manual Tom.
and anyone who can manual well can save a dropped front wheel when being a fanny

Never had to manual a fastish drop as I've never approached one that I've commited to on the brakes 😛

This'll do...

Never had to manual a fastish drop as I've never approached one that I've commited to on the brakes

I can't comprehend why you'd attempt to manual a drop on anything except really slow stuff.

I mean, even this is slow...and big to boot and the rider only puts in the smallest of input

There's nothing like the huge amounts of body english some of you are talking about doing.

mtbel
if you can't manual. I wouldn't necessarily expect you to understand just how far back you can get your weight. if you can manual well. you should be able to hold your front wheel an inch from the ground while rolling. think about how far back your centre of gravity has to be to hold this.

The difference is between being dynamically balance and being statically balanced. Because your mass is so much more than that of your bike, you can use pumping to unweight the bike transiently (the average weight is unchanged, but you make it "heavy" for a bit by pumping the bike into the ground so that when it (and you) rebounds, it's "light" for a bit). At some speed, the time you need to complete the maneouver becomes too long for any sensible transient unweighting, and at this point, you must actually centre your combined CofG directly over the rear wheel contact patch. However, again, unless you are Mr Tickle, to do this you will effectively have to shorten the wheel base of your bike, by pushing though with your heals, poping the bike upwards into the classic manual position (also used by trails riders for any time they need to stay balanced on the back wheel).

Have a look at the angle of a normal sized MTB needed to do this (you can't do it by just moving backwards, unless your bike is comically too small for you (ie a BMX as in the vid up there^^^ 😉

[img] [/img]

That^^^ is the sort of angle you need to get your combined CofG over the rear wheel centre!

What Max says, who clearly has a better technical understanding of bike dynamics than me.

I wouldn't attempt. I'd achieve.

I personally find it easier to control the bikes dip in the air from a manual which helps allow me to land more smoothly (especially when dropping using a hardtail or BMX)

Pointless, even if you can do it, you should try and stay as central in the bike as you can get away with during any given situation.

Tom I think you are confusing Max using a lot of impressive words with having a good understanding of bike dynamics.
Max is wrong on a couple of points:
firstly, as I said before, think about how far back your weight has to be to manual with your front wheel only an inch from the ground?
secondly, I can lift the front of my hardtail by simply rotating my weight rearwards (as above) and a slight push from my feet. no front wheel pump required whatsoever.
Your high front wheel manual pic is a really poor example of how far back you can move your weight.

now you are making up rules for no actual reason Tom.

I spent years around the downhill races as my brother was a sponsored rider mtbel, I've never once met or ridden with anyone who bothers to manual downhill style drops.

slight push from my feet.

That's part of a normal pumping technique! It's still not manualing off a damn drop!

mtbel
Tom I think you are confusing Max using a lot of impressive words for a good understanding of bike dynamics.
Max is wrong on a couple of points:
firstly, as I said before, think about how far back your weight has to be to manual with your front wheel only an inch from the ground?

Is this you mtbel?

[img] /revision/latest?cb=20090826034652[/img]

😉

More seriously, on a proper, full sized mountain bike, unless you've got your stem on backwards, or are wearing a backpack full of concrete, there's no way you're going to be able to hold a permanent flat land manual with the front wheel just 1" above the ground.

(you can on a bmx, because the bike is so much smaller)

I've never once met or ridden with anyone who bothers to manual downhill style drops.

That's part of a normal pumping technique!

More seriously, on a proper, full sized mountain bike, unless you've got your stem on backwards, or are wearing a backpack full of concrete, there's no way you're going to be able to hold a permanent flat land manual with the front wheel just 1" above the ground.

Seriously!

You amuse me greatly.

but you make it "heavy" for a bit by pumping the bike into the ground so that when it (and you) rebounds, it's "light" for a bit)

I've decided you're a troll.

This thread smells of AWESOME.

Hopefully you haven't given up on this thread Soap 🙁

Trying to teach the other half something I can do without thinking.
Anything that I'm missing?
Compress front suspension at lip >
As front wheel goes off move body weight back >
Straitening arms until back wheel rolls off.
How did you learn?

Skills course? Not saying you're a rubbish teacher!! Sometimes its just better getting that input from someone you don't know and practicing without the audience.

My other half went on a dirt divas jumps and drops course, got a lot out of a female only skills course. Something to consider anyway.

They are on facebook and have a [url= http://www.dirtdivas.co.uk/ ]website[/url] but I'm sure there are others too.

Most of this second page is bs but the supermarket trolley might be a good shout.
We always try and find a scoopy rock/drop to session but it's just one element of the technique that's missing.
Maybe a session with Katy Kard over FoD might be worth it.

back to kerbs.
Try getting her to wheelie off a kerb with emphasis on going off flat to land with both wheels at the same time not mega high wheelies kids with carrier bags on their seats do.
Wheelieing isn't the important bit at all but at the slow speed she's comfortable with it's the only way to stop the front dropping and should automatically make her push the front out and force the bike to stay level using her feet to push aswell.
wheelieing is harder but your up against her psychological fear so don't tell her it's harder untill after she can land both wheels flat and is comfortable going fast enough to not need to wheelie and can just push out.

Maybe a session with Katy Kard over FoD might be worth it.

MrsDummy went on a women only skills day. They learnt a bit, but they seem to have spent most of the time bonding over just how much they all hated being coached by their partners. It was apparently the common theme, from peope like MrsD who could barely ride a bike up to people wondering if they could safely do the Megavalanche.

Mrs SOAP may be the exception, of course. But a skills course seems to be very important for women in a way that it isn't necessarily for men.

🙂

on a proper, full sized mountain bike, unless you've got your stem on backwards, or are wearing a backpack full of concrete, there's no way you're going to be able to hold a permanent flat land manual with the front wheel just 1" above the ground.

Depends what you mean by 'permanent'. If you mean forever then you're correct. If you mean a few dozen metres then with a bit of practice it's very possible (I [i]do[/i] have long arms but then i have long legs too, what with me being long and all - see fig. 1.).

Fig. 1. Long limbs lean longer and lower

[img] [/img]
It's on a wall ridey berm thing but it's the same technique on the flat, on a bit more harder 😉

Manuals are useful for riding off sketchey tree root drops, like this one in swinley forest next to the mod area.

[img] [/img]

trying to tell your partner how to do stuff is not the easiest. As you can soon become a know it all.
Here's a vid of her at BPW.

No trolley action going on.

mtbel - Member

I wouldn't attempt. I'd achieve.

I want this on a motivational poster for the office. Preferably with a picture of someone (Yoda, maybe?) hucking off a huge cliff on a child's bike. Can any of the photoshop gurus oblige? [mourns the absence of Jamie]

Here's a vid of her at BPW.

Does she know you uploaded it in the "comedy" category?

Im in the Jeremy Clarkson school of thought.

SPEEEEEEED

[img] ?0[/img]

I've often wondered why we spend so much time on here talking about kit and so little on how to ride, but I think I get it now. Any discussion between blokes about skill/prowess quickly descends into a willy waving contest.

So here's my take 🙂

Technically there isn't much too it. All you need to do is stop the front wheel from falling too far before the back wheel leaves the lip. You've can do this in two ways; lots of speed (so it doesn't have time to drop) or some active movement to hold it up for a while. In practice you tend to do a bit of both and the slower you go the more active you need to be.

Now we can (and no doubt will) spend all day arguing about exactly how one has to move in order to stop the front wheel dropping, but that's not the point. If you are having to think about how to hold the wheel up then you really shouldn't be riding off any drop that could hurt if you get it wrong. If you do then odds are that you'll just freeze at the last moment and end up in hospital.

Like lots of things in mountain biking (and life) whether you think you can or think you can't you are right. So keep practicing those wheel lifts in situations where it doesn't matter (puddles, sticks etc) until you are totally confident that you can hold the front up for a bike length at any speed, then just go play on some drops. But, whatever you do, don't ride anything that you don't want to ride. Life is too short to spend much of it in rehab.

+1 Roverpig, it only took until page 3 to get some proper advice!

In reference to wysiwyg's picture, clearly no butt over the back wheel stance on the guy who to all intents and purposes clearly looks like he knows what he is up to, certainly more than most of us.

My previous comment still stands rather than keyboard warriors like us lot, the best approach is to go to someone who teaches this day in day out in an environment where you can progress from gentle drops to larger ones. You know it makes the most sense 🙂

In reference to wysiwyg's picture, clearly no butt over the back wheel stance on the guy who to all intents and purposes clearly looks like he knows what he is up to, certainly more than most of us.

Dude be [i]stylin[/i] bro!!!
Ahem.
I'd wager that bike gets pushed out in front a little before he lands.

That's how I look at it; the bike gets pushed out in front of me at the lip, I catch up with it in the air then place my front wheel in front of me on the ground. Most of the time....